Forum | Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect by pickles110564

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect 08:44 - Jun 20 with 5872 views

their vote?
Will this make the Brexit Party stronger in the North?

On LBC this morning a couple of callers all stated that they will look to vote elsewhere.

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 08:48 - Jun 20 with 2228 views

Herbivore

They haven't become a referendum and remain party yet, although they'll probably go that way.

All analysis shows they won't lose much by doing so, their bigger risk is losing a large number of remain supporting voters if they don't change tack. The analysis I saw shows them losing a few percent of leave voters even if they remain committed to leaving and there wasn't much of an increase in that loss if Labour change tack.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:18 - Jun 20 with 2173 views

flimflam

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 08:48 - Jun 20 by Herbivore

They will probably lose leave voters to BP and gain some remain voters back from the LIBS.

The biggest losers will be the Tories if they fook up brexit all over again.

All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing.

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:20 - Jun 20 with 2169 views

pickles110564

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 08:48 - Jun 20 by Herbivore

That was mentioned as well that some are concerned votes could move towards the Green party.
It seems both major parties are in a now win situation at the moment.

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:34 - Jun 20 with 2147 views

BigManBlue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:20 - Jun 20 by pickles110564
That was mentioned as well that some are concerned votes could move towards the Green party. It seems both major parties are in a now win situation at the moment.

Agree, think that Labour are reasoning that, whilst some leavers will desert them, it'll mainly be in Northern seats where in a lot of cases they have a big majority and the Tories are electoral anathema. So they accept that they'll lose vote share but still only have to do better than the BP to maintain their position in parliament.

Whereas losing remainers may cause them to end up splitting the centre/left vote with the Libs and Greens (ie certain seats in London) and letting the Tories in through the back door, or collapsing to Liberals entirely.

I say this because I am usually staunchly Labour but have voted green at and since the 2017 because of the Party's stance on Brexit, amongst other issues.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:36 - Jun 20 with 2139 views

hampstead_blue

A labour voter from the North was on the Today program. She's never voted anyone but Labour but now will vote Brexit party.

Telling.

Margaret Beckett was also on. Her arguement for a second referendum was ridiculous. She was stuttering, stalling, had nothing to say.

Another former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling was so honest and pragmatic. He's telling Labour to honour the vote and get out. He likened it to the Scottish vote. One vote, one decision.

	Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:38 - Jun 20 with 2128 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:18 - Jun 20 by flimflam
They will probably lose leave voters to BP and gain some remain voters back from the LIBS. The biggest losers will be the Tories if they fook up brexit all over again.

Yeah that's about right. There was an interesting analysis before the Euro elections that showed that if Labour had committed to a second referendum they'd have picked up the largest vote share, beating the Brexit Party into second. The Tories were screwed whatever they did.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:40 - Jun 20 with 2121 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:36 - Jun 20 by hampstead_blue

Nothing can be inferred from the views of one voter. The arguments for a second referendum are strong, you just don't agree with them.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:45 - Jun 20 with 2101 views

BigManBlue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:40 - Jun 20 by Herbivore
Nothing can be inferred from the views of one voter. The arguments for a second referendum are strong, you just don't agree with them.

Any argument for them promising to out-remain the Libs? Sod another referendum, let's just revoke it and enjoy the outrage.

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If Bart stays, who's no. 1?

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:51 - Jun 20 with 2074 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:45 - Jun 20 by BigManBlue
Any argument for them promising to out-remain the Libs? Sod another referendum, let's just revoke it and enjoy the outrage.

I'd be up for that but think a second referendum would yield the same outcome but with a bit less outrage.

There is a very, very slim chance that Boris ends up with a choice between revoke or no deal and we end up revoking.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:52 - Jun 20 with 2072 views

giant_stow

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:36 - Jun 20 by hampstead_blue

Pragmatic?! Funny choice of word. 'dogmatic' seems more suitable.

	Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:55 - Jun 20 with 2065 views

BigManBlue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:51 - Jun 20 by Herbivore
I'd be up for that but think a second referendum would yield the same outcome but with a bit less outrage. There is a very, very slim chance that Boris ends up with a choice between revoke or no deal and we end up revoking.

Think you're right, though I think "slim" is underselling it - I get the feeling that, barring the miracle of Parliament seeing sense and passing a reasonable deal, it will have to come down to one of these two eventually. The whole process up to now feels lime it's been about putting this off - and now we have Boris making the call! Fun times ahead.

Poll:

If Bart stays, who's no. 1?

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:00 - Jun 20 with 2049 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:34 - Jun 20 by BigManBlue

It would definitely be a huge risk though and could lead to some huge swings in their heartland. Take Bolsover for example which for Labour to lose would seem unthinkable - but an estimated 70% voted leave in that constituency and their majority was slashed hugely in the last election

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:02 - Jun 20 with 2041 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:55 - Jun 20 by BigManBlue
Think you're right, though I think "slim" is underselling it - I get the feeling that, barring the miracle of Parliament seeing sense and passing a reasonable deal, it will have to come down to one of these two eventually. The whole process up to now feels lime it's been about putting this off - and now we have Boris making the call! Fun times ahead.

If we continue pissing about and it ends up with parliament having to choose between no deal or no Brexit then I think no Brexit would win the day. The number of committed Labour leavers is outweighed by the number of sensible, moderate Tories who understand that no deal isn't a viable option. It'd break the Tory party but I can't see how they can force no deal through without causing a constitutional crisis.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:13 - Jun 20 with 2014 views

hampstead_blue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 09:40 - Jun 20 by Herbivore
Nothing can be inferred from the views of one voter. The arguments for a second referendum are strong, you just don't agree with them.

Sorry, but I am not inferring anything.
I merely stated it was a 'telling' sign that people are now admitting to feeling betrayed by Labour. Why else would a lifetime supporter switch?

The arguments for a second referendum are for the birds.
It was stated, as in Scotland, that this was a one shot deal.

It was never going to be easy, the EU would do everything they can to keep us (for us read our money) so of course some people will use a difficult negotiation as an excuse to go back to the people.

It's done.

Giant_Ulla - Darling was not being dogmatic as you say. He was very honest and open, what a nice chap, and said that his side lost the vote and now they (the remainers) should suck it up and get on with leaving).

	Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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-1

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:17 - Jun 20 with 1995 views

flimflam

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:02 - Jun 20 by Herbivore

You honestly think no brexit will happen? Possible but the Tories know they are toast if that happens.

Like I said before no brexit would be an open goal for BP and its anyones guess how a GE would pan out. Tories wont let that happen.

All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing.

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:24 - Jun 20 with 1974 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:17 - Jun 20 by flimflam
You honestly think no brexit will happen? Possible but the Tories know they are toast if that happens. Like I said before no brexit would be an open goal for BP and its anyones guess how a GE would pan out. Tories wont let that happen.

There's just as much chance of the party splitting if they go ahead with no deal, arguably more so. Hard to see how they find their way out of this mess.

[Post edited 20 Jun 2019 10:26]

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:26 - Jun 20 with 1968 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:13 - Jun 20 by hampstead_blue

If you think the argument for a second referendum is that negotiations have been difficult then you don't understand the arguments for a second referendum. If you likewise think that the referendum being sold as a one time deal is a killer counter-argument then I make you way off base.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:29 - Jun 20 with 1961 views

Pinewoodblue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:13 - Jun 20 by hampstead_blue

There was an article in Brussels Telegraph last week where some academic had crunched the numbers and reached the conclusion that Brexit would cost Belgium an extra â‚¬500m a year in contributions to EU budget.

	2023 year of destiny
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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:33 - Jun 20 with 1949 views

GlasgowBlue

Remain? When did this happen?

Corbyn rebuffs calls to shift Labour's position on 2nd ref>Am intensely relaxed about this.Just spoken to leaders office. A new, clear, policy supporting PV is being drawn up by their best policy expert. Goes by the name of Godot. Should be here soon....ðŸ‘ðŸ¾https://t.co/hxY9Taoemg
— Clive Lewis MP (@labourlewis) June 19, 2019

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:33 - Jun 20 with 1948 views

hampstead_blue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:26 - Jun 20 by Herbivore
If you think the argument for a second referendum is that negotiations have been difficult then you don't understand the arguments for a second referendum. If you likewise think that the referendum being sold as a one time deal is a killer counter-argument then I make you way off base.

I wasn't saying that the reason people wanted a 2nd bite was solely due to the way it's been run.
It is true, and remainers must concede that the EU and their supporters over here have been flat out with propoganda for so long. Tony Blair has been all over the tv and news along with other has-beens.

The referendum was offered as a one shot deal. I heard the speech Cameron gave just the other day. I'm sure he said is wasn't 'best of three'.

I do hear the arguement for remain. I also don't agree with it. If those who voted leave had been as vocal as the remaines we'd have been told to jog-on.

	Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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-2

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:36 - Jun 20 with 1941 views

Swansea_Blue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:33 - Jun 20 by hampstead_blue

"propaganda"

Tony Blair was the PM for, er many, years. Yet his opinion is dismissed as irrelevant by randoms on social media who are trotting out soundbites spoonfed to them by deluded puppet masters.

As a nation we're fooked

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 11:01 - Jun 20 with 1902 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:33 - Jun 20 by hampstead_blue

Pretty much none of that is true.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 11:04 - Jun 20 with 1895 views

Herbivore

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:36 - Jun 20 by Swansea_Blue
"propaganda" Tony Blair was the PM for, er many, years. Yet his opinion is dismissed as irrelevant by randoms on social media who are trotting out soundbites spoonfed to them by deluded puppet masters. As a nation we're fooked

Quite. And the poor quiet voices of leave, as Farage appears on Question Time for the three millionth time. Its pure delusion.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 11:12 - Jun 20 with 1882 views

WeWereZombies

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:13 - Jun 20 by hampstead_blue

I think you are making a big mistake if you think that there will not be a second Scottish independence referendum, tragically I think it inevitable and more tragically, due to the lack of vision by many south of the border, I think it will be an 'Aye' and we can expect the diminution still further of Britain's influence in the World that started with the loss of what eventually became the Republic of Ireland.

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Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 11:16 - Jun 20 with 1867 views

hampstead_blue

Now that Labour are a full on Remain and second referendum will that affect on 10:36 - Jun 20 by Swansea_Blue
"propaganda" Tony Blair was the PM for, er many, years. Yet his opinion is dismissed as irrelevant by randoms on social media who are trotting out soundbites spoonfed to them by deluded puppet masters. As a nation we're fooked

Tony Blair is a war criminal who lied to us about the 2nd Gulf War.
He should be at the Hague on trial.

Sorry but he can burn for all I care. I really do not like him.

	Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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