| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? 22:16 - Sep 15 with 26507 views | Fixed_It |
If that's what it takes then I would. |  |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:36 - Sep 16 with 6205 views | Guthrum |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:33 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
To be honest voting anyone at the moment entails a certain degree of holding your nose in the ballot box. The Lib Dems I still find hard to forgive for getting into bed with the Tories. Labour are a shambles. The Tories are scum. The Brexit Party are a ramshackle bunch of vacuous crooks. That only really leaves the Green Party but they aren't likely to win many seats other than the one they already have. Any GE fought soon I'll have to base my vote solely on who is most likely to beat my local Tory MP, and currently that looks like the Labour candidate. |
Has ever been the case and will continue until such time as we have a wider and less rigidly monolithic range of parties to vote for. |  |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:39 - Sep 16 with 6185 views | Herbivore |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:36 - Sep 16 by Guthrum |
Has ever been the case and will continue until such time as we have a wider and less rigidly monolithic range of parties to vote for. |
Yep. Bring on PR. |  |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:51 - Sep 16 with 6181 views | Guthrum |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:39 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
Yep. Bring on PR. |
Except that pure PR reinforces parties, as they compile the lists and have the money to promote themselves. Party apparatchiks get the prime positions to win seats, genuine independents do not stand a chance. Regional parties lose out (in 2017, none of Plaid Cymru, the NI parties or the Greens would have made a likely PR threshold, maybe not even the SNP if it was as high as the fairly common 5%). There is no longer a local MP whom you can approach with problems.
It has to be a more nuanced or dual track system. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:58 - Sep 16 with 6151 views | Herbivore |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:51 - Sep 16 by Guthrum |
Except that pure PR reinforces parties, as they compile the lists and have the money to promote themselves. Party apparatchiks get the prime positions to win seats, genuine independents do not stand a chance. Regional parties lose out (in 2017, none of Plaid Cymru, the NI parties or the Greens would have made a likely PR threshold, maybe not even the SNP if it was as high as the fairly common 5%). There is no longer a local MP whom you can approach with problems.
It has to be a more nuanced or dual track system. |
I'm not sure many local MPs do much in their constituencies anymore anyway, that's been my experience at least. Something like the EU elections system could work where you still have region specific MPs. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:03 - Sep 16 with 6166 views | chicoazul |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:25 - Sep 16 by Guthrum |
Labour allowed the economic situation to develop whereby it was necessary and it was a Conservative-sponsored policy. All three are to blame.
But more guilt rests with those who have continued austerity beyond the initial emergency* and used it as a cover for ideological aims of squeezing the state and creating a hostile environment for the poor.
* Alternatively doing something to halt the inflation in living costs (or "growth" as government statisticians are fond of labelling it). |
It wasnt necessary. This is a total falsehood. If the BoE can magically generate £100bn to stabilise the system and buy a load of debt, austerity was de facto not "necessary". It was a political choice.
EDIT; £375bn, beg your pardon. [Post edited 16 Sep 2019 9:04]
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:04 - Sep 16 with 6164 views | Guthrum |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:58 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
I'm not sure many local MPs do much in their constituencies anymore anyway, that's been my experience at least. Something like the EU elections system could work where you still have region specific MPs. |
Not been my experience, but it will vary with the individual (if they don't do local stuff, then people probably ought not to be voting for them).
My favoured system is something like the Euro elections one, but with smaller regions (equivalent to four or five current constituencies). A Scottish/German-style dual track system would also work. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:04 - Sep 16 with 6164 views | chicoazul |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:28 - Sep 16 by GlasgowBlue |
And they’d have done so had they gone into coalition with Labour as they were promising cuts more severe than those from thatcher in the 1980’s.
Have you forgotten the state of the economy in 2010? |
No. I am simply reminding people that a) it was the LDs what done it and b) it was a choice not a necessity as so many people like to make out. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:16 - Sep 16 with 6136 views | bracknell_blue |
Absolutely. But we need a Remain alliance to make it stick so that would involve Swinson and Corbyn stopping their playground juvenile antics and actually working together in the short term. |  |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:17 - Sep 16 with 6134 views | Guthrum |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:03 - Sep 16 by chicoazul |
It wasnt necessary. This is a total falsehood. If the BoE can magically generate £100bn to stabilise the system and buy a load of debt, austerity was de facto not "necessary". It was a political choice.
EDIT; £375bn, beg your pardon. [Post edited 16 Sep 2019 9:04]
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The BoE taking bad debt from the banks and writing it off (QE) is very different from borrowing real money to keep funding services at the pre-crash level. The one involves a simple transfer of notional value, filling a hole with expanding foam, the other makng real cash available to go into people's bank accounts.
If you're simply printing money at that rate - and it would need seveal times that £375bn over four or five years - inflation can quickly get out of control. Wheelbarrows of worthless cash scenarios.
The political choice was not to end austerity at the earliest opportunity, once the price of borrowing came down and things had stabilised in the world economy. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:23 - Sep 16 with 6120 views | chicoazul |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:17 - Sep 16 by Guthrum |
The BoE taking bad debt from the banks and writing it off (QE) is very different from borrowing real money to keep funding services at the pre-crash level. The one involves a simple transfer of notional value, filling a hole with expanding foam, the other makng real cash available to go into people's bank accounts.
If you're simply printing money at that rate - and it would need seveal times that £375bn over four or five years - inflation can quickly get out of control. Wheelbarrows of worthless cash scenarios.
The political choice was not to end austerity at the earliest opportunity, once the price of borrowing came down and things had stabilised in the world economy. |
No no no. I know you love to make excuses for the inexcusable, but as so often now you're flat wrong. Austerity could have been avoided, if banks could be floated by the BoE so could councils. No one is talking about printing money and depositing it in individual's bank accounts, a fatuous comment. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:27 - Sep 16 with 6113 views | chicoazul |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:16 - Sep 16 by bracknell_blue |
Absolutely. But we need a Remain alliance to make it stick so that would involve Swinson and Corbyn stopping their playground juvenile antics and actually working together in the short term. |
I dont see whats playground about it. Swinson doesnt think Corbyn is fit to be PM, a perfectly reasonable position if not one I necessarily share. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:35 - Sep 16 with 6098 views | Pinewoodblue |
The Lib Dem position is false. They will Revoke article 50 if they win the general election. They know this just isn't going to happen. |  |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:39 - Sep 16 with 6095 views | Guthrum |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:23 - Sep 16 by chicoazul |
No no no. I know you love to make excuses for the inexcusable, but as so often now you're flat wrong. Austerity could have been avoided, if banks could be floated by the BoE so could councils. No one is talking about printing money and depositing it in individual's bank accounts, a fatuous comment. |
What do you think councils are spending their money on, if not paying their staff, contractors and service providers, into their bank accounts? It's running costs, which requires ongoing, real money. Not bad debt like the banks had round their necks.
Austerity could have been avoided, but that would have required the government to subsidise the LAs by extensive borrowing at a time it was very expensive. If you just print that money, dangerous inflation can ensue. It could also have been better targeted and mitigated by increased (or more efficient) taxation, but they chose not to.
I'm not absolving people of blame, just pointing out - as all parties agreed at the time - that it was practically unavoidable. [Post edited 16 Sep 2019 9:41]
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:41 - Sep 16 with 6083 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:23 - Sep 16 by chicoazul |
No no no. I know you love to make excuses for the inexcusable, but as so often now you're flat wrong. Austerity could have been avoided, if banks could be floated by the BoE so could councils. No one is talking about printing money and depositing it in individual's bank accounts, a fatuous comment. |
How long do you hold past misdemeanors not purported by the current leadership and likely the majority of the membership against a group or party?
On your second point, it's an oversimplification of what happened.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:08 - Sep 16 with 6047 views | chicoazul |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:39 - Sep 16 by Guthrum |
What do you think councils are spending their money on, if not paying their staff, contractors and service providers, into their bank accounts? It's running costs, which requires ongoing, real money. Not bad debt like the banks had round their necks.
Austerity could have been avoided, but that would have required the government to subsidise the LAs by extensive borrowing at a time it was very expensive. If you just print that money, dangerous inflation can ensue. It could also have been better targeted and mitigated by increased (or more efficient) taxation, but they chose not to.
I'm not absolving people of blame, just pointing out - as all parties agreed at the time - that it was practically unavoidable. [Post edited 16 Sep 2019 9:41]
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"Austerity could have been avoided" yes I know, thank you, we got there in the end. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:25 - Sep 16 with 6016 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:58 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
I'm not sure many local MPs do much in their constituencies anymore anyway, that's been my experience at least. Something like the EU elections system could work where you still have region specific MPs. |
It's common for them to do loads - regular surgeries, responses to letters, assisting constituents' with a whole range of problems from simply providing advice to unblocking delays in public services where they can. And apparently they're doing more than ever. |  |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:27 - Sep 16 with 6011 views | crunchie1978 |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:35 - Sep 16 by Pinewoodblue |
The Lib Dem position is false. They will Revoke article 50 if they win the general election. They know this just isn't going to happen. |
similar to the conversation down the pub where you promise to buy your best mate a house if you win the lottery! |  | | |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:28 - Sep 16 with 6006 views | wkj |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:27 - Sep 16 by crunchie1978 |
similar to the conversation down the pub where you promise to buy your best mate a house if you win the lottery! |
pfff, lottery- Just get a well paid job. |  |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:31 - Sep 16 with 6001 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:28 - Sep 16 by wkj |
pfff, lottery- Just get a well paid job. |
Post-Brexit there will be well paid jobs for everyone so this shouldn't be an issue.
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:32 - Sep 16 with 5995 views | wkj |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:31 - Sep 16 by StokieBlue |
Post-Brexit there will be well paid jobs for everyone so this shouldn't be an issue.
SB |
Not true, manufacturing the blue passports is being outsourced to Europe | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:34 - Sep 16 with 5993 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:32 - Sep 16 by wkj |
Not true, manufacturing the blue passports is being outsourced to Europe |
That's the correct thing to do. Tasks like that should be outsourced whilst we keep all the high paying ones for ourselves.
The streets will be paved in gold-leaf bottles of Sussex sparkling wine.
SB [Post edited 16 Sep 2019 10:45]
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:41 - Sep 16 with 5978 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:27 - Sep 16 by crunchie1978 |
similar to the conversation down the pub where you promise to buy your best mate a house if you win the lottery! |
Drunken promises are not legally binding. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:58 - Sep 16 with 5945 views | Herbivore |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 10:25 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue |
It's common for them to do loads - regular surgeries, responses to letters, assisting constituents' with a whole range of problems from simply providing advice to unblocking delays in public services where they can. And apparently they're doing more than ever. |
I just have a poor local MP then. | |
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| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 11:43 - Sep 16 with 5907 views | Durovigutum |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 08:11 - Sep 16 by chicoazul |
Occasional reminder that the LDs enabled the last decade of austerity in coalition with the Tories. |
Or, the LDs tamed the worst of the nasty party when it was clear the public didn't want Labour and Gordon Brown and we needed a government? |  | | |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 12:20 - Sep 16 with 5879 views | WeWereZombies |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 09:35 - Sep 16 by Pinewoodblue |
The Lib Dem position is false. They will Revoke article 50 if they win the general election. They know this just isn't going to happen. |
Never say never, with the Conservative Party split, the papers putting the boot in to Corbyn, voters beginning to regard the Brexit Party and UKIP as scoundrels then votes have to go somewhere. Swinson has not had a great deal of public exposure but she was sure footed and strong on Andrew Marr's show yesterday. When the feeling is that the old guard have all let us down and it is time for a new generation of politicians then why not start at the top and vote in a younger Prime Minister? |  |
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