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They said the warning sign was too small.... 16:52 - Oct 16 with 1744 viewshampstead_blue

I'd say her intellect was sadly smaller.
Who in their right mind would stick their head out of a train like that!

How on earth can you blame the rail company for such a stupid and random act.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-50067073

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 16:56 - Oct 16 with 1442 viewsBigManBlue

I mean, yeah, can't really argue otherwise, tragic as it still is... And I'd assume the windows had some sort of warning too, all the ones I've been on recently have.
[Post edited 16 Oct 16:56]

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 16:57 - Oct 16 with 1436 viewswkj

The sooner rolling stock are uniformally updated to allow internal operation of door controls inside the carriage the better. Safety aside nothing I hate more than someone else interfering with my hand on the outside of the train as I am trying to open the door.

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 17:02 - Oct 16 with 1415 viewsBackToRussia

Yes it's stupid, but it's also incredibly easy to have a large and prominent sign to warn those not as smart as you or me. So why not, if it saves lives.

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 19:15 - Oct 16 with 1231 viewsPendejo

This apparently is insufficient



This is the replacement one



Neither are any good if people simply ignore them...

There are multiple historical incidences of similar things having occurred, I can't believe that there are still trains where you can open the window, I'm sure the trains I've traveled on in recent years all have push button door opening.

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 19:31 - Oct 16 with 1207 viewsZedRodgers

Pretty obvious to anyone that’s ever watched The Young Ones or knows what trains are.

Sad though.

No, not at the moment

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 20:24 - Oct 16 with 1138 viewsOxford_Blue

Disagree.

The company itself considered that the warning signs were not sufficient and was supposed to have replaced them months before the accident but didn’t.

The train sells alcohol on board, and the windows are easy to open. It is reasonably foreseeable that someone could open them and not see the sign. Also the trees hadn’t been maintained.

I doubt what you say represents a complete defence for the company since they are in breach of their own risk assessments.

Any damages would be reduced for contributory negligence - reflecting her own culpability as well.
[Post edited 16 Oct 20:36]
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 20:33 - Oct 16 with 1116 viewsOxford_Blue

Also the act might be stupid but it is not random given the fact that the windows are there to be opened and there is a small and ineffective sign which contemplates just that type of thing.

Providers of trains need to guard against reasonably foreseeable risks. Someone putting their head out of a widow is reasonably foreseeable and their own risk assessment came to this view and also to the view that the warning was not fit for purpose and had to be replaced - which they failed to do.
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 20:54 - Oct 16 with 1074 viewsjaykay

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 20:24 - Oct 16 by Oxford_Blue

Disagree.

The company itself considered that the warning signs were not sufficient and was supposed to have replaced them months before the accident but didn’t.

The train sells alcohol on board, and the windows are easy to open. It is reasonably foreseeable that someone could open them and not see the sign. Also the trees hadn’t been maintained.

I doubt what you say represents a complete defence for the company since they are in breach of their own risk assessments.

Any damages would be reduced for contributory negligence - reflecting her own culpability as well.
[Post edited 16 Oct 20:36]


yeah but she was a young socialist
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 21:41 - Oct 16 with 1019 viewsOxford_Blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 20:54 - Oct 16 by jaykay

yeah but she was a young socialist


What, so she deserved to die?
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 22:06 - Oct 16 with 987 viewsm14_blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 20:33 - Oct 16 by Oxford_Blue

Also the act might be stupid but it is not random given the fact that the windows are there to be opened and there is a small and ineffective sign which contemplates just that type of thing.

Providers of trains need to guard against reasonably foreseeable risks. Someone putting their head out of a widow is reasonably foreseeable and their own risk assessment came to this view and also to the view that the warning was not fit for purpose and had to be replaced - which they failed to do.


Good posts and very interesting perspective.
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 22:13 - Oct 16 with 975 viewsSwansea_Blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 20:24 - Oct 16 by Oxford_Blue

Disagree.

The company itself considered that the warning signs were not sufficient and was supposed to have replaced them months before the accident but didn’t.

The train sells alcohol on board, and the windows are easy to open. It is reasonably foreseeable that someone could open them and not see the sign. Also the trees hadn’t been maintained.

I doubt what you say represents a complete defence for the company since they are in breach of their own risk assessments.

Any damages would be reduced for contributory negligence - reflecting her own culpability as well.
[Post edited 16 Oct 20:36]


It’s “reasonably foreseeable” that you can get twonked over the head if you go round sticking it out of the windows of trains moving at 70mph+. By that logic we need signs above every car window too.

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 22:23 - Oct 16 with 956 viewsjaykay

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 21:41 - Oct 16 by Oxford_Blue

What, so she deserved to die?


whoosh
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 09:06 - Oct 17 with 784 viewsOxford_Blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 22:23 - Oct 16 by jaykay

whoosh


Do explain the witty intelligent undercurrent then.

I suspect there isn’t one
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 10:11 - Oct 17 with 758 viewslinhdi

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 16:56 - Oct 16 by BigManBlue

I mean, yeah, can't really argue otherwise, tragic as it still is... And I'd assume the windows had some sort of warning too, all the ones I've been on recently have.
[Post edited 16 Oct 16:56]


Every inter-city train between Ipswich and London has door windows that open. It is only dangerous if you're prepared to take a big risk. And the earnings are big enough and clear enough.

There have been been calls to ban any train with this kind of door... Which would shut down every heritage railway...
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 10:32 - Oct 17 with 733 viewsElmswell_Blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 19:31 - Oct 16 by ZedRodgers

Pretty obvious to anyone that’s ever watched The Young Ones or knows what trains are.

Sad though.


Yeah but Vivian still made it to University Challenge
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:12 - Oct 17 with 700 viewsjjblue84

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 17:02 - Oct 16 by BackToRussia

Yes it's stupid, but it's also incredibly easy to have a large and prominent sign to warn those not as smart as you or me. So why not, if it saves lives.


Signs are not there to protect the public, but to protect companies against litigation! Surely everybody know that??
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:13 - Oct 17 with 699 viewsSwansea_Blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:12 - Oct 17 by jjblue84

Signs are not there to protect the public, but to protect companies against litigation! Surely everybody know that??


We're going to need another sign...

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:14 - Oct 17 with 695 viewsBackToRussia

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:12 - Oct 17 by jjblue84

Signs are not there to protect the public, but to protect companies against litigation! Surely everybody know that??


They clearly do both.

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:17 - Oct 17 with 689 viewshampstead_blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:14 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

They clearly do both.


no amount of signage can halt stupidity..

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:18 - Oct 17 with 686 viewsjjblue84

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:14 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

They clearly do both.


Really?? How do they ‘clearly’ protect the public, long ago grown weary of large numbers of pointless signs and bombarded with meaningless messages at stations??
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:24 - Oct 17 with 677 viewsBackToRussia

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:18 - Oct 17 by jjblue84

Really?? How do they ‘clearly’ protect the public, long ago grown weary of large numbers of pointless signs and bombarded with meaningless messages at stations??


That many people don't read the sign, because they already are aware that it's a dangerous thing to do, is irrelevant. How many people need to have read a sign that could potentially save their life for you to put it up? 100? 10? 1? The point is that you may as well, especially when people sticking their heads out of the trains and dying is actually relatively common.

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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:34 - Oct 17 with 660 viewsjjblue84

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:24 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

That many people don't read the sign, because they already are aware that it's a dangerous thing to do, is irrelevant. How many people need to have read a sign that could potentially save their life for you to put it up? 100? 10? 1? The point is that you may as well, especially when people sticking their heads out of the trains and dying is actually relatively common.


You shouldn’t say things then you can’t back up! They are worse than useless!
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:38 - Oct 17 with 651 viewsSikamikanico

Tragic but its hard to be sympathetic. Common sense really seems to be absent nowadays
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:43 - Oct 17 with 638 viewsOxford_Blue

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:38 - Oct 17 by Sikamikanico

Tragic but its hard to be sympathetic. Common sense really seems to be absent nowadays


The difficulty is that the train company admitted the sign wasn’t good enough in its own risk assessment and yet didn’t replace it in the timeframe they said they would. Plus Railtrack appear to have been negligent in not dealing with the tree
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They said the warning sign was too small.... on 12:48 - Oct 17 with 598 viewsSouperJim

They said the warning sign was too small.... on 11:12 - Oct 17 by jjblue84

Signs are not there to protect the public, but to protect companies against litigation! Surely everybody know that??


Actually signs can make you more vulnerable to litigation, if not enough risk-reducing measures are in place. The presence of a sign proves they have identified a hazard and therefore need to have done enough to prevent an accident. Which in this case, they clearly didn't.

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