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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' 07:41 - Feb 12 with 3082 viewsElephantintheRoom

Really? It's a short stretch of rail between London and Brum - with maybe a short extension which is more likely to be quietly dropped as the economy slows post-Brexit.

Last time I looked there was an integrated high speed rail service across most of Europe - some of which can already be accessed from London via the tunnel.

Presumably they just mean it's ludicrously expensive for what it it.

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 08:58 - Feb 12 with 2097 viewsStokieBlue

You are confusing ongoing projects with historical projects and length with difficulty of construction.

Crossrail is actually the current largest engineering project in Europe.

SB
[Post edited 12 Feb 2020 8:59]

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:01 - Feb 12 with 2085 viewsElephantintheRoom

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 08:58 - Feb 12 by StokieBlue

You are confusing ongoing projects with historical projects and length with difficulty of construction.

Crossrail is actually the current largest engineering project in Europe.

SB
[Post edited 12 Feb 2020 8:59]


You've assessed every engineering project currently going on in Europe?

Personally I can't see a 120 mile stretch of rail that might be made over the next 20 years as such a big stretch.

Blog: Wing Wonders (Part Two)

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:04 - Feb 12 with 2078 viewsStokieBlue

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:01 - Feb 12 by ElephantintheRoom

You've assessed every engineering project currently going on in Europe?

Personally I can't see a 120 mile stretch of rail that might be made over the next 20 years as such a big stretch.


Why would I need to assess them? Crossrail is well known as being the largest infrastructure project ongoing in Europe. Just google it.

Luckily your personal opinion isn't really that relevant, it's facts that matter. You've had great difficulty with facts lately though it seems which is unfortunate.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:12 - Feb 12 with 2069 viewsElephantintheRoom

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:04 - Feb 12 by StokieBlue

Why would I need to assess them? Crossrail is well known as being the largest infrastructure project ongoing in Europe. Just google it.

Luckily your personal opinion isn't really that relevant, it's facts that matter. You've had great difficulty with facts lately though it seems which is unfortunate.

SB


A fact isn't a fact because you or a liar says it is though. And that's a fact.

I'm quite prepared to agree that a 120 miles of whitish elephant might be the most expensive infrastructure project in Europe.... and that most countries put in fast versions of victorian technology in the last 40 years - so don't need to hype up a branch line over the next twenty. Is it the BIGGEST? Somehow I doubt it...especially as it is happening at a snail's pace.

Maybe the bridge to Ireland is even bigger

Blog: Wing Wonders (Part Two)

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:37 - Feb 12 with 2042 viewsStokieBlue

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:12 - Feb 12 by ElephantintheRoom

A fact isn't a fact because you or a liar says it is though. And that's a fact.

I'm quite prepared to agree that a 120 miles of whitish elephant might be the most expensive infrastructure project in Europe.... and that most countries put in fast versions of victorian technology in the last 40 years - so don't need to hype up a branch line over the next twenty. Is it the BIGGEST? Somehow I doubt it...especially as it is happening at a snail's pace.

Maybe the bridge to Ireland is even bigger


"A fact isn't a fact because you or a liar says it is though. And that's a fact."

That doesn't even make sense and I think someone who said that autism could be "cured" by a dodgy clinic in Mayfair might want to think twice before calling people liars.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:43 - Feb 12 with 2034 viewsGeoffSentence

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:01 - Feb 12 by ElephantintheRoom

You've assessed every engineering project currently going on in Europe?

Personally I can't see a 120 mile stretch of rail that might be made over the next 20 years as such a big stretch.


HS2 is currently underway.

What European projects that are underway are bigger than HS2?

Out damned scot Out I say
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:48 - Feb 12 with 2029 viewsWeWereZombies

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:04 - Feb 12 by StokieBlue

Why would I need to assess them? Crossrail is well known as being the largest infrastructure project ongoing in Europe. Just google it.

Luckily your personal opinion isn't really that relevant, it's facts that matter. You've had great difficulty with facts lately though it seems which is unfortunate.

SB


Construction is due to start on the Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link between Denmark and Germany this year with a seven billion euro price tag for the tunnel alone, Only half the projected price of Crossrail I know but when you add in the upgrades and new construction of road and railway links around this long awaited saving of just over an hour on the journey between Copenhagen and Hamburg the cost will undoubtedly have exceeded both HS2 and Crossrail by the anticipated opening date in 2028. I did find a pdf with a budget of over twenty five billion euros stated but that was from 2007 (and posting links is bad enough but links to pdfs...), so:

http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/green-light-74bn-tunnel-between-den

Also quite interesting from Wikipedia, and note the discreet removal of the United Kingdom from one of the projects:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Transport_Network

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:49 - Feb 12 with 2022 viewsGeoffSentence

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:48 - Feb 12 by WeWereZombies

Construction is due to start on the Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link between Denmark and Germany this year with a seven billion euro price tag for the tunnel alone, Only half the projected price of Crossrail I know but when you add in the upgrades and new construction of road and railway links around this long awaited saving of just over an hour on the journey between Copenhagen and Hamburg the cost will undoubtedly have exceeded both HS2 and Crossrail by the anticipated opening date in 2028. I did find a pdf with a budget of over twenty five billion euros stated but that was from 2007 (and posting links is bad enough but links to pdfs...), so:

http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/green-light-74bn-tunnel-between-den

Also quite interesting from Wikipedia, and note the discreet removal of the United Kingdom from one of the projects:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Transport_Network


£7 Billion? Peanuts!

Out damned scot Out I say
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:53 - Feb 12 with 2009 viewsWeWereZombies

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:49 - Feb 12 by GeoffSentence

£7 Billion? Peanuts!


Tsk - €7 billion...(£5.89 billion at current exchange rate - or £250 billion in 2028)

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 10:13 - Feb 12 with 1987 viewsSwansea_Blue

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:43 - Feb 12 by GeoffSentence

HS2 is currently underway.

What European projects that are underway are bigger than HS2?


The rebuilding job at ITFC?

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 10:16 - Feb 12 with 1980 viewsSwansea_Blue

It's got to be, even on price alone let alone complexity. Turkey's planning dosoime humungous regeneration works around Istanbul I think that will end up costing way more but I think they're still planning.

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 11:02 - Feb 12 with 1957 viewsDarth_Koont

It certainly seems to be the most complex project. And one of the most complicated and indirect answers to the question of addressing regional flaws in the economy and redistributing wealth and power to the North.

"We're going to link Birmingham and London better. And probably leave it there for the next decade or so"

"Why don't you focus on the existing problems within the Northern rail network?"

"Birmingham is North enough. And we don't actually want to address regional flaws in the economy. Far easier to talk about it – and do and spend nothing. Worked a treat with the Northern Powerhouse scam that bought us a few years."
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 11:20 - Feb 12 with 1933 viewsWeWereZombies

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 10:16 - Feb 12 by Swansea_Blue

It's got to be, even on price alone let alone complexity. Turkey's planning dosoime humungous regeneration works around Istanbul I think that will end up costing way more but I think they're still planning.


But are not those regeneration works made up of hundreds of smaller projects, and in part urban renewal rather than new infrastructure? Also, some will be in Asia if they are on the other side of the Bosphorus so do not qualify as European...

The biggest figure I could fins was €8 billion euro but I suspect that is not for the whole project:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/istanbul-residents-battle-for-their

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 14:36 - Feb 12 with 1842 viewsHARRY10

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 11:20 - Feb 12 by WeWereZombies

But are not those regeneration works made up of hundreds of smaller projects, and in part urban renewal rather than new infrastructure? Also, some will be in Asia if they are on the other side of the Bosphorus so do not qualify as European...

The biggest figure I could fins was €8 billion euro but I suspect that is not for the whole project:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/istanbul-residents-battle-for-their


Voters will be pleased to learn that the HS2 will link up with the bridge going from Scotland to NI.. It might have to slow down as it turns left just after Carlisle and for the customs checks but that should not slow things down too much

meanwhile parents have lost over 2000 'lollipop ladies/men in the last couple of years or so

I know which one I would be spending the money on
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 15:39 - Feb 12 with 1808 viewsNo9

HS2 was proposed because HS1, like the 125 was a real success.
The failures in HS2 are entirely down to incompetent pesonnel in government, particularly those at the DfT.
The 'contracting strategy' is a joke where the contractors can see a numpty a mile of & are milking it.
Had this been done by the Swiss when the original go ahead was given it would have been done by now & at a much lower value than the estimate at the time. The French also have a good record of briniging in major rail projects at reasonable prices = both down to competent contracting practises.

Europe does indeed have many high speed railways - look at the Spanish Zaraosa to Madrid job where there were many consderably more difficulties than what are being encountered on HS2.

HS2 should have linked up with the Eurostar lines = it is already 1/2 a job
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 15:43 - Feb 12 with 1802 viewsNo9

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 08:58 - Feb 12 by StokieBlue

You are confusing ongoing projects with historical projects and length with difficulty of construction.

Crossrail is actually the current largest engineering project in Europe.

SB
[Post edited 12 Feb 2020 8:59]


"Crossrail is actually the current largest engineering project in Europe."

By Contract engineering Workscope, Contract Construction Workscope or Contract value?
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 15:47 - Feb 12 with 1795 viewsNo9

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:12 - Feb 12 by ElephantintheRoom

A fact isn't a fact because you or a liar says it is though. And that's a fact.

I'm quite prepared to agree that a 120 miles of whitish elephant might be the most expensive infrastructure project in Europe.... and that most countries put in fast versions of victorian technology in the last 40 years - so don't need to hype up a branch line over the next twenty. Is it the BIGGEST? Somehow I doubt it...especially as it is happening at a snail's pace.

Maybe the bridge to Ireland is even bigger


"Maybe the bridge to Ireland is even bigger"

This is just a way to give a few favoured consultancies a lot of taxpayer money.
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 15:51 - Feb 12 with 1784 viewsHARRY10

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 15:39 - Feb 12 by No9

HS2 was proposed because HS1, like the 125 was a real success.
The failures in HS2 are entirely down to incompetent pesonnel in government, particularly those at the DfT.
The 'contracting strategy' is a joke where the contractors can see a numpty a mile of & are milking it.
Had this been done by the Swiss when the original go ahead was given it would have been done by now & at a much lower value than the estimate at the time. The French also have a good record of briniging in major rail projects at reasonable prices = both down to competent contracting practises.

Europe does indeed have many high speed railways - look at the Spanish Zaraosa to Madrid job where there were many consderably more difficulties than what are being encountered on HS2.

HS2 should have linked up with the Eurostar lines = it is already 1/2 a job


It maybe that much of Spains rail goes ovwr quite 'barren' land as with France so there are not the problems/delays caused by dealing with purchasinng the land, crossing rivers, avoiding underground services etc

However this is a total nonsense idea - as there is no certainty of it's need in a decade plus time.

The country should be focussing on moving data information to users - not workers to places of work which will no longer exist.

It anyone thinks that things in regard to production will not change over the mext ten years and beyond then they are a loony.

Look how quickly rail replaced the canals. High speed internet is doing the same to physical means of production and distribution.

What next ?

Hot air balloons to compete with drones ?
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 16:32 - Feb 12 with 1753 viewsNo9

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 15:51 - Feb 12 by HARRY10

It maybe that much of Spains rail goes ovwr quite 'barren' land as with France so there are not the problems/delays caused by dealing with purchasinng the land, crossing rivers, avoiding underground services etc

However this is a total nonsense idea - as there is no certainty of it's need in a decade plus time.

The country should be focussing on moving data information to users - not workers to places of work which will no longer exist.

It anyone thinks that things in regard to production will not change over the mext ten years and beyond then they are a loony.

Look how quickly rail replaced the canals. High speed internet is doing the same to physical means of production and distribution.

What next ?

Hot air balloons to compete with drones ?


When it comes to rail the tories don't have a good record-
Remember Beeching?

I don't see how they can preach the economic benefits- do you?
If the whole sytem were linked to the Chunnel so you could (say) get on a HS train in Manchester Leeds et al & go right down to the Med their may be a case as it would list the need for airport expansion.

As an aside the French are testing trains that will go from Northern France to the Med cost in 3 hours = that's high speed rail.
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 16:42 - Feb 12 with 1737 viewshype313

Hmm the future of work will be digital and hopping on a train to go to work 40 miles away will no longer be a thing. AI and Automation will change the landscape so much, fast forward 20 years and we will have empty fast trains, it will fail on a ROI because the workforce will work from home or in shared office space in towns close to their homes.

HS2 is a solution to a problem now and in times gone by, but it doesn't not provide a solution to future problems.

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 17:04 - Feb 12 with 1718 viewsHARRY10

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 16:42 - Feb 12 by hype313

Hmm the future of work will be digital and hopping on a train to go to work 40 miles away will no longer be a thing. AI and Automation will change the landscape so much, fast forward 20 years and we will have empty fast trains, it will fail on a ROI because the workforce will work from home or in shared office space in towns close to their homes.

HS2 is a solution to a problem now and in times gone by, but it doesn't not provide a solution to future problems.


put a bit better than I could

and the money would be better put towards upgrading the UK;s broadband to the fastest possible, with also an eye to how it will be able to adapt to future developments

as A1 improves then so will the abilty to use it over longer distances sight tests, medical exams, even minor proceedures - you could be 'seen' by a doctor living in Aberdeen while being at home in Ipswich, football games are now shown as almost a cinima type event in pubs, as will concerts I suggest

the list of actions that can be carried by aving the expedient of fast and powerful data exchange has changed how things are done and will continue to do so - yet here we are looking to waste a huge amount of money on something that will not be needed in 10,20 years time

for those who expect to be around then and economically active I urge you to fight back agsinst this absurd waste of money

we need to be building for the future not rebuilding the past
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 17:28 - Feb 12 with 1702 viewsElephantintheRoom

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 09:37 - Feb 12 by StokieBlue

"A fact isn't a fact because you or a liar says it is though. And that's a fact."

That doesn't even make sense and I think someone who said that autism could be "cured" by a dodgy clinic in Mayfair might want to think twice before calling people liars.

SB


What sort of deranged idiot are you? I vaguely remember suggesting that people who want to try a cure for their child that may or may not work is their decision not a pious keyboard warrior's That clearly didnt make much sense to you either.

Seems reasonable to me to let people do what they want. But not you apparently.. Each to their own.

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 17:33 - Feb 12 with 1694 viewsElephantintheRoom

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 10:16 - Feb 12 by Swansea_Blue

It's got to be, even on price alone let alone complexity. Turkey's planning dosoime humungous regeneration works around Istanbul I think that will end up costing way more but I think they're still planning.


They are also putting a tunnel under the bosporus which would appear a tad more challenging than a 120 miles of rail in a flat country.

I seem to remember reading that Norway is doing a startling tunnel linking some islands and Moscow is regenerating a large area and has been for some time.

The point is most countries in Europe have hills and moutains and wide rivers and canyons.... all a bit more challenging than what the UK has to offer - granted we go in for more enquiries and consultants backhanders.

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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 17:37 - Feb 12 with 1683 viewsHARRY10

HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 17:28 - Feb 12 by ElephantintheRoom

What sort of deranged idiot are you? I vaguely remember suggesting that people who want to try a cure for their child that may or may not work is their decision not a pious keyboard warrior's That clearly didnt make much sense to you either.

Seems reasonable to me to let people do what they want. But not you apparently.. Each to their own.


Actually it is not their decision, if it is thought that harm could come to the child,

Parents do not 'own' their children.

A court will always place the welfare of a child over that of any parental rights.
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HS2 'Biggest infrastructure project in Europe' on 18:34 - Feb 12 with 1648 viewsBugs

I was told it would be cheaper to reopen an every branch line that Beeching shut down than building HS2.....and it would probably have more of a positive economic impact.
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