| This may be a bit controversial ... 10:18 - Feb 13 with 7844 views | urbanblue |
.. but after watching that sh1tshow of a performance by the team on Tuesday I've decided to share a thought that's been bugging me privately for a while now. I've been dismissing it but without doubt there is something badly wrong at the club so I've decided to put it out there to you lot. Being a lonely old Town supporter in Australia I have no one to nut things out with, so I thought I'd put it out to you lot.
I'm not going to say it is the case, but I'm wondering whether certain senior players just have too much influence within the club to the detriment of the team in more ways then one. Yes, I'm talking about Chambers and Skuse mainly, without doubt fantastic servants of the club but now the constant in two seasons of what is looking increasingly like total failure.
Last Tuesday, as many times before there was not a bit of passion, hunger or desire from the team. The mentality was all wrong. There is a defeatist attitude pervading and no sign of the leadership needed from the two players who have been part of it many, many times before. It's just the norm for them now eh!
Outwardly, of course the passion and fighting talk is all there in the interviews, but inwardly deep inside, the doubts after all these 'big game' defeats must be immense and of course will be felt by the rest of the team.
The other aspect is, I wonder whether the failure of Hurst and now Lambert could also be linked to pressure from the players. We all know that Hurst fell out with the Senior pros, the team stopped playing for him (If they ever started!) and that conversations were had between Chambers and Evans that led to Hurst's dismissal. I am no Hurst apologist at all but what if he never had a chance with the players from Day One? A lot of us were actually quite excited after those first few games under Hurst and we have all asked why he appeared to suddenly abandon his philosophy and play in a totally different way with different players from Norwich game onwards.
Sound familiar? After starting the season with a 442, a fairly steady line up and moving to the top of the league Lambert also abandons a winning formula. Holy gets dropped?. After Lincoln 'the players' apparently told Lambert how they wanted to play. Chambers has said he loves the current system. Great Luke. That's alright then. No matter we can't win a game! Many of us here have commented that the Wimbledon game needed a 442 line up but no ... Same, same and a very a defensive formation!
Two previously previously successful managers just can't make up their minds or too much 'Player power'?
As I have said, these are just thoughts and I am not saying this is the case. I am hopefully talking nonsense. But no one seems to have considered that maybe Lambert is just not his own man. I'm thousands of miles away and someone with local knowledge within the club might tell me I am totally wrong on this. I hope so. However, while all the talk on here has blamed Evans and Lambert for our current predicament, for two managers to fail so miserably says to me there is something deeper going on.
The club is, I think, in big trouble and needs a big clear out to get rid of the losing mentality and the players associated with it.
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:27 - Feb 13 with 2049 views | ColchesterBlue1985 |
In my view they should have gone when Mick went. Whoever replaced MM was facing an uphill battle immediately given the relationship those two in particular had with the previous manager.
Both should go in summer but won’t as I know for a fact Evans regards them as part of the furniture whilst I regard them as the leaders of the worse Ipswich team in our history. |  | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:32 - Feb 13 with 2038 views | Herbivore |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:27 - Feb 13 by ColchesterBlue1985 |
In my view they should have gone when Mick went. Whoever replaced MM was facing an uphill battle immediately given the relationship those two in particular had with the previous manager.
Both should go in summer but won’t as I know for a fact Evans regards them as part of the furniture whilst I regard them as the leaders of the worse Ipswich team in our history. |
Not sure you can blame them for Hurst coming in and selling our best players and replacing them with lower league punts. |  |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:43 - Feb 13 with 2025 views | Bluesquid |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 12:51 - Feb 13 by MrTown |
Well I know for a fact, from one of Hurst's backroom staff who admittedly said he had great relationship with every single player, he did say that the senior pros at the club have a lot of influence (didn't name names) and said Hurst and in particular Chris D struggled with it. |
Didn't someone a month or so ago state that they thought that there was a rift between some of the senior pros and the younger players?
Something to do with Chambers and then certain players who did not over celebrate a goal or something. | | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:46 - Feb 13 with 2015 views | ColchesterBlue1985 |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:32 - Feb 13 by Herbivore |
Not sure you can blame them for Hurst coming in and selling our best players and replacing them with lower league punts. |
I haven’t blamed them for players being sold and Hurst would have failed anyway I suspect as proven with his stint at Scunthorpe. What I am saying they are the Captain and Vice Captain of the worse Ipswich Town team in its history that is nothing to celebrate or put on your mantelpiece.
They have far too much sway at the club and the sooner they go I think the new dawn can start. | | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:57 - Feb 13 with 2000 views | Bluesquid |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 10:21 - Feb 13 by Herbivore |
If Chambers and Skuse have the kind of negative influence you are suggesting then a decent manager with his own ideas would have bombed them out by now. [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 10:27]
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Well Mick was never going to bomb out his mates now was he?
Hurst i believe perhaps contemplated it but he never got that far and then that leaves Lambert who now with his long contract and his inability or even bothering to negotiate a half decent transfer budget with Evans for the future of the club shows that he's happy with the status quo and basically just sorting himself out for the next 5 years. | | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:59 - Feb 13 with 1997 views | eddiespearitt03 |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 10:21 - Feb 13 by Herbivore |
If Chambers and Skuse have the kind of negative influence you are suggesting then a decent manager with his own ideas would have bombed them out by now. [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 10:27]
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Who is going to rock the boat ? All a bit too late as contracts and extension of contracts are signed. Contracts that are far too easy to attain at this club. Contracts for achieving very little. | | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:03 - Feb 13 with 1984 views | Herbivore |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:46 - Feb 13 by ColchesterBlue1985 |
I haven’t blamed them for players being sold and Hurst would have failed anyway I suspect as proven with his stint at Scunthorpe. What I am saying they are the Captain and Vice Captain of the worse Ipswich Town team in its history that is nothing to celebrate or put on your mantelpiece.
They have far too much sway at the club and the sooner they go I think the new dawn can start. |
They're also the captain and vice captain of the most successful Town side of the last decade. That's damning with faint praise of course, but still. We all know why Chambers and Skuse bear the brunt of people's ire but it's all a bit silly. | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:04 - Feb 13 with 1978 views | MrTown |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:43 - Feb 13 by Bluesquid |
Didn't someone a month or so ago state that they thought that there was a rift between some of the senior pros and the younger players?
Something to do with Chambers and then certain players who did not over celebrate a goal or something. |
Yeah I think someone mentioned that, but I don't think that is true, by all accounts I've only ever heard that Chambers is great example for the youngsters off the pitch, we know he hosts 5 or so of them in an annex.
I was told it was the staff and the senior pros, his exact words were, "the senior ones have too much pull". |  |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:06 - Feb 13 with 1973 views | Herbivore |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 15:57 - Feb 13 by Bluesquid |
Well Mick was never going to bomb out his mates now was he?
Hurst i believe perhaps contemplated it but he never got that far and then that leaves Lambert who now with his long contract and his inability or even bothering to negotiate a half decent transfer budget with Evans for the future of the club shows that he's happy with the status quo and basically just sorting himself out for the next 5 years. |
Your first question has given away why so many fans can't appraise Skuse and Chambers rationally. They remind them too much of nasty Mick who said some bad words about them a couple of years ago. By the way, Lambert gave Chambers a new contract before he got his own extension. It could just be that having good experienced pros at the club is actually a good thing? | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:06 - Feb 13 with 1975 views | Bluesquid |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:04 - Feb 13 by MrTown |
Yeah I think someone mentioned that, but I don't think that is true, by all accounts I've only ever heard that Chambers is great example for the youngsters off the pitch, we know he hosts 5 or so of them in an annex.
I was told it was the staff and the senior pros, his exact words were, "the senior ones have too much pull". |
Ok, thanks. | | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:18 - Feb 13 with 1958 views | Bluesquid |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:06 - Feb 13 by Herbivore |
Your first question has given away why so many fans can't appraise Skuse and Chambers rationally. They remind them too much of nasty Mick who said some bad words about them a couple of years ago. By the way, Lambert gave Chambers a new contract before he got his own extension. It could just be that having good experienced pros at the club is actually a good thing? |
For Lambert the status quo is good thing, so signing someone that holds so much sway is a continuation of that status quo, Lambert is a yes man for Evans and the payoff is a 5 year contract.
Lambert a tough guy, tough talking and takes no carp so how on earth wasn't he able to negotiate a half decent transfer budget as a condition to him signing his 5 year contact is beyond all comprehension but he's sorted now and that is all that counts for him and Evans of course has his yes man in place. | | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:21 - Feb 13 with 1949 views | Herbivore |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:18 - Feb 13 by Bluesquid |
For Lambert the status quo is good thing, so signing someone that holds so much sway is a continuation of that status quo, Lambert is a yes man for Evans and the payoff is a 5 year contract.
Lambert a tough guy, tough talking and takes no carp so how on earth wasn't he able to negotiate a half decent transfer budget as a condition to him signing his 5 year contact is beyond all comprehension but he's sorted now and that is all that counts for him and Evans of course has his yes man in place. |
Righto. | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 16:31 - Feb 13 with 1936 views | Mullet |
It's a convenient fantasy for those who hated Mick and can't stomach how wrong it's gone, and little more.
Why did Hurst with his bully boy tactics not crack them? Why did his players not stand behind him? Where do Toto, Nolan, Jackson et al. sit in the pecking order? Hurst was an absolute sh1t who abused players and then expected them to run through walls for him while he put his feet up on the desk.
Ultimately Lambert has talked the talk but not delivered. That doesn't mean he won't, but he's had the three windows he demanded and we're no clearer as to who he is or what we are under him.
That's the issue. The only decent manager we've had in recent years, and you knew exactly where he and we stood and what we were about. That's not down to the players undermining management. If they were he could have Bobby Robsoned them out week one. |  |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 17:44 - Feb 13 with 1885 views | Leaky |
At least you managed to see it, all I saw was Holly in goal, the back of some ones head and the edge of the away stand. |  | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 17:55 - Feb 13 with 1879 views | Leaky |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 13:36 - Feb 13 by r2d2 |
Warnock is probably one of the few people who could sort this. Mick would too. |
Problem is Mick didn't sort it out otherwise we wouldn't have problem | | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 17:57 - Feb 13 with 1870 views | pablovian |
Entrenched senior employees are invariably dubious about, and often reject or try to undermine new managers, especially if the new managers are unknown or inexperienced. Dealing with this situation is very difficult. A transition period that includes some house-cleaning is almost always necessary.
I remember that Bill Baxter, a revered lynch-pin of Bill McGarry's late '60's promotion team, challenged the authority of Bobby Robson, and was shipped out immediately. I, like many other fans, thought that this would have a hugely negative impact; but we quickly learned that no individual is irreplaceable.
I was surprised that Luke Chambers received a two-year extension last year. In my opinion, he was a competent journeyman who provided decent on-field leadership during the McCarthy era, but was slowing down and becoming more error prone. I thought that he would depart at the end of the season as part of a cost-cutting and rebuilding initiative.
Until Cole Skuse got injured last season, he was playing his heart out and being very effective. He came back from injury too soon, and is becoming less effective as age catches up with him. In a time of cost-cutting and rebuilding, I do not expect his contract to be extended.
Neither player deserves to be vilified, it is just time to move on. |  | | |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 18:55 - Feb 13 with 1844 views | PositivelyPortman |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 10:26 - Feb 13 by itfcjoe |
One thing I’ve noticed is that in PLs early games he was an absolute menace on the sidelines - kicking and heading every ball, and dragging players along with him.
I’d forgotten this until the Accrington game when he was doing it, and you can tell it was helping the players - keeping standards high etc.
Last few games he just meanders around technical area, not shouting or pushing on or doing anything really. How can something like that change week to week, it’s surely what he’s like or he isn’t - or is he just not bothered any more?
With regards to Chambers and Skuse, they were both starting in 442, whereas Skuse hadn’t been in 352 so hard to see he has that Much influence as would surely want to be playing? There is clearly an element of player power, and Chambo a big character - but I’d say Lambo as big a part of losing mentality as anyone here, if Chambo and Skuse are to go I’d rather it be a different manager who moves them on as don’t trust this one to move us forwards |
If you’ve gained a five year contract, then why bother being interested? |  |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:01 - Feb 13 with 1841 views | bazgammon |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 12:20 - Feb 13 by Illinoisblue |
Chambers’ mistake at Sunderland - where completely unchallenged he let the ball under his foot and go out for a throw; a move from which they scored - if that had been Kenlock doing that there would be endless ridicule and GIFs.
That said, it’s not defence that’s our main problem; it’s the ineffective midfield that is unable to create chances and Garbutt aside unable to contribute goals |
yep. Josh Emmanuel was let go on a free for that kind of mistake, how we could use him now to cover KVD, but Captain Fantastic is given a free pass because he does fist pumps and is 'passionate'. | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:08 - Feb 13 with 1835 views | bazgammon |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 13:34 - Feb 13 by Herbivore |
They were also common denominators in finishing top half 4 seasons out of 5 and reaching the play offs. You could just as easily say we've been on a downward curve since Dozzell and Downes made their debuts. |
Rubbish. The last two to threes seasons they HAVE been the common denominators . How far do you want to go back? Dozzell and Downes by comparison have barely played in the last three seasons. Although Downes has played most this season. Ridiculous to compare the two youngsters with 1st names on the team sheet , Calamity and the crab. The fact Chambers is still club captain exemplifies the absurd situation still further. | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:11 - Feb 13 with 1824 views | Herbivore |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:08 - Feb 13 by bazgammon |
Rubbish. The last two to threes seasons they HAVE been the common denominators . How far do you want to go back? Dozzell and Downes by comparison have barely played in the last three seasons. Although Downes has played most this season. Ridiculous to compare the two youngsters with 1st names on the team sheet , Calamity and the crab. The fact Chambers is still club captain exemplifies the absurd situation still further. |
Well back in 2018 Downes was out on loan whilst Skuse and Chambers were playing every week in a side that finished 12th in the Championship. Since Downes got into the side we've been relegated by a mile and we're now 7th in the third tier. It's clearly much more on Downes than it is on Chambers and Skuse by the looks of it. Or maybe only a tit singles out individual players as responsible for a collective failure? | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:37 - Feb 13 with 1802 views | bazgammon |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:11 - Feb 13 by Herbivore |
Well back in 2018 Downes was out on loan whilst Skuse and Chambers were playing every week in a side that finished 12th in the Championship. Since Downes got into the side we've been relegated by a mile and we're now 7th in the third tier. It's clearly much more on Downes than it is on Chambers and Skuse by the looks of it. Or maybe only a tit singles out individual players as responsible for a collective failure? |
Totally disagree. | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:54 - Feb 13 with 1777 views | Herbivore |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:37 - Feb 13 by bazgammon |
Totally disagree. |
Cool. | |
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| This may be a bit controversial ... on 20:08 - Feb 13 with 1760 views | AlanG296 |
| This may be a bit controversial ... on 19:01 - Feb 13 by bazgammon |
yep. Josh Emmanuel was let go on a free for that kind of mistake, how we could use him now to cover KVD, but Captain Fantastic is given a free pass because he does fist pumps and is 'passionate'. |
Don't forget the annexe, how would the club manage without it? | | | |
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