| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing 07:01 - Apr 9 with 3377 views | Dubtractor |
We are going to NEED to change how we look after our society after this. For too long we have seen a race to the bottom for those in low paid/manual jobs. What we're now seeing, as if it was ever in doubt, is these are the very people that are essential to keeping our country moving. Not the 'wealth creators'. For the avoidance of doubt, I have no issue with people being well paid, or even super rich, but we've got the balance so horribly wrong in recent times that it is a tragedy.
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:53 - Apr 9 with 722 views | JakeITFC |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:38 - Apr 9 by BlueBadger |
From my point of view, it's because frankly, I expect better from Labour. The half-arsed approach and utter lack of leadership from the top echelons allowed that narrative to be drawn. |
Which is a fair point - still quite a leap to go from that to voting Conservative though surely? |  | | |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 13:03 - Apr 9 with 696 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:47 - Apr 9 by Meadowlark |
They have to pay the driver. |
Welcome to the 70's Meadowlark! |  |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 13:04 - Apr 9 with 693 views | longtimefan |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:53 - Apr 9 by JakeITFC |
Which is a fair point - still quite a leap to go from that to voting Conservative though surely? |
Not when you realise the election result is generally swung one way or another by a very small percentage of floating voters |  | | |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 13:05 - Apr 9 with 692 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 10:08 - Apr 9 by JakeITFC |
Well whatever you think of Corbyn, it's hard to stomach people championing messages like the above from Newsnight when there was an election on these issues a few months ago and they were rejected out of hand. |
It was only rejected because the Tories gamed the FPTP system better than Labour did, more people voted against the Tories and Brexit-supporting parties than voted for them - this "decisively rejected" stuff is simply not the case.... |  |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 13:19 - Apr 9 with 667 views | BlueBadger |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:53 - Apr 9 by JakeITFC |
Which is a fair point - still quite a leap to go from that to voting Conservative though surely? |
The whole election campaign was an utter shambles. They gave the impression they were making it up as they went along most of the the time. |  |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 13:43 - Apr 9 with 642 views | Darth_Koont |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:14 - Apr 9 by giant_stow |
Can't agree - people had no eescape form politics ever since Brexit - it's taken a pandemic to finish that.
They just didn't like what Corbyn's labour offered - thankfully its done now and working people have a chance of being represented again. |
That's nonsense. It's people obsessing over the superficial optics of politics that means reality and real policies have been pushed to the realm of appeal rather than what is objectively needed or desirable.
If people need a pandemic to focus their minds then they've been living in a dream world. |  |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 13:49 - Apr 9 with 631 views | Darth_Koont |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:38 - Apr 9 by BlueBadger |
From my point of view, it's because frankly, I expect better from Labour. The half-arsed approach and utter lack of leadership from the top echelons allowed that narrative to be drawn. |
Which narrative?
Depending on the accusation, Corbyn and his team had no control or total control of the party. It's almost as if the narrative became about smearing Corbyn and wrecking Labour's chances at every opportunity rather than actually dealing in reality.
Far too many people fell for it or were active in that. | |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:01 - Apr 9 with 566 views | Dubtractor |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:10 - Apr 9 by Lord_Lucan |
For the avoidance of doubt is it being suggested that shelf stackers, shop workers, bus drivers etc should be better paid and if so how does it stop these people getting the virus, and who is going to do these jobs at this time of crisis if not the people who are in their current positions?
Of course people in tower blocks are going to suffer more during the lockdown than others, I regularly say to my wife how lucky we are in this situation but I'm not sure what point is trying to be made here either, is it being suggested we flatten these buildings?
As for the comments by dopey Raab, he said the same thing that a friend would say to others about another friend in the same situation, we all say it. If Uncle Bob has cancer we all say, he's a fighter.
Not trying to start an argument here, just trying to understand what people are on about.
As for bus drivers - why the hell don't they lock the front entrance, rope off the front rows and make people get on the middle or back doors (where appropriate of course) |
Sorry, only just back on here after a busy day on the spreadsheets..
I'm not sure it is about how those workers pay reflects the likelihood of catching the virus, more that suggestions the virus is a 'leveller' are nonsense. The likes of me and anyone else lucky enough to work from home are miles less likely to get it than those still working in those jobs essential to keep the country moving.
The point about how these people are valued by society is more my extrapolation. These are very much the people that keep the country moving, put food on our tables, looks after those in need, keep the country clean etc, and yet they are the least valued. The value of these people has never been more clear than right now. | |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:08 - Apr 9 with 560 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:01 - Apr 9 by Dubtractor |
Sorry, only just back on here after a busy day on the spreadsheets..
I'm not sure it is about how those workers pay reflects the likelihood of catching the virus, more that suggestions the virus is a 'leveller' are nonsense. The likes of me and anyone else lucky enough to work from home are miles less likely to get it than those still working in those jobs essential to keep the country moving.
The point about how these people are valued by society is more my extrapolation. These are very much the people that keep the country moving, put food on our tables, looks after those in need, keep the country clean etc, and yet they are the least valued. The value of these people has never been more clear than right now. |
Yes Dubs
I realised that after someone pointed it out to me at the foot of the previous page.
I misunderstood what she was getting at. | |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:35 - Apr 9 with 536 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:35 - Apr 9 by JakeITFC |
Whereas the Conservatives are a dangerous threat to every community.
That Corbyn and co. got framed as the racist baddies in the last few years of political commentary remains at best an absolute mystery. |
It's only a mystery to those who were so invested in the cult of Corbyn that they buried their heads in the sand whilst excusing rampant antisemitism that has lead to an investigation by the EHRC.
Here is the submission put forward to the investigation by the Jewish Labour Movement.
https://www.scribd.com/document/438367082/Redacted-JLM-Closing-Submission-to-the
and a few of the highlights.
Evidence from the Jewish Labour Movement was leaked on Friday. 70 whistleblowers, Labour Party employees, have given evidence under oath to the EHRC. I doubt posters making light if this have even bothered to read the leaked testimony. Far easier to mock people highlighting the inconvenient truth. So here are a few examples from the JLM submission. Just a few.
One Jewish Labour member listed 22 examples of antisemitic abuse directed at him at CLP meetings. These included the phrases “Hitler was right”, “child killer” and “shut the f**k up Jew”. (page 4)
One Jewish member shared a breakfast table at party conference with delegates who agreed that Jews were “subhuman” and should “be grateful we don’t make them eat bacon..every day.” (page 5)
One Jewish Labour member alleged an article arguing Jews were overrepresented in the capitalist class was defended on official Labour Party mailing lists. (page 7)
A Jewish sixth-former was forced to leave the Labour Party Forum on Facebook after members sifted through his account for links to Jewish organisations. (page 7)
A Jewish Labour member had made a comment online condemning holocaust denial. The administrator of the Labour Party Forum group responded by calling him a “frothing Hasbara Troll.” (page 8)
One Jewish member faced death threats after she was filmed being upset watching a debate about antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference. (page 8)
One Jewish was the subject of a 30-minute film made by an antisemitic member, who abused him as a “f**king Jew” and threatened to punch him in the face. (page 8)
The membership secretary in South Tottenham CLP allegedly objected to 25 applications from the Jewish community, and required home visits to their houses. This was not a requirement for other members. (page 9)
Three branches in Stockton CLP refused to vote for a motion condemning the Pittsburgh attack in 2018. The opponents felt the word “antisemitism” should be removed from the motion, despite it being the deadliest attack on the Jewish community in the history of the US. (page 14)
A Jewish member was told at a CLP meeting that he should “feel responsible for the Palestinian conflict.” (page 16)
Margaret Hodge was subject to abuse after expressing her feelings on Labour antisemitism. One example includes the phrase “your smear campaign…would make Goebbels proud.” (page 17)
A staff member was appointed despite allegedly having a history of antisemitism. The appointment was signed off personally by Katie Murphy and Jennie Formby. (page 19)
The Leader’s office allegedly interfered directly in the disciplinary process. An advisor allegedly stated that “JC [is] interested in this one, while discussing action on a specific case. (page 22)
Staff in the complaints team were allegedly told that they were not to provide updates or responses in respect of antisemitism complaints. (page 24)
Staff allege that after the 2017 GE, the Leader’s Office expected staff to disregard antisemitic incidents from a long time ago. (page 25)
In early 2019, the decision was taken that Laura Murray would head the complaints team. This means the Leader’s office could control the team directly. (page 26)
Pete Willsman and Claudia Webbe (both alleged to have a history of antisemitism, separately to this report) were said to defend alleged antisemites to the complaints team. (page 27)
One example of a person permitted to remain linked to the party despite suspension was the vice-chair of Woking Labour, who tweeted that Hitler was the “Zionist God”. (page 28)
Some antisemitism cases that go word for word against the Labour Party rule book were subject to blanket exceptions. No suspension issued. (page 32)
Alex Scott-Samuel, who has promoted Rothschild conspiracy theories on a David Icke show, chaired the meeting to discuss Luciana Berger’s replacement. He was never sanctioned. (page 42)
Elleanne Green, a close friend fo Jeremy Corbyn, shared a post blaming “scriptwriters in Tel Aviv” for the Christchurch massacre. The report implies her case is ongoing or she has never been sanctioned. (page 42)
Tom Watson had allegedly forwarded 50 complaints to Corbyn, and no action was taken. Examples of complaints included tweets linking Hitler & the Rothschilds, and questioning whether Jewish MPs had “human blood”. (page 49)
If you read the full document and still believe it's a mystery then it reflects very poorly on you. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 18:42]
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:45 - Apr 9 with 530 views | Darth_Koont |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:35 - Apr 9 by GlasgowBlue |
It's only a mystery to those who were so invested in the cult of Corbyn that they buried their heads in the sand whilst excusing rampant antisemitism that has lead to an investigation by the EHRC.
Here is the submission put forward to the investigation by the Jewish Labour Movement.
https://www.scribd.com/document/438367082/Redacted-JLM-Closing-Submission-to-the
and a few of the highlights.
Evidence from the Jewish Labour Movement was leaked on Friday. 70 whistleblowers, Labour Party employees, have given evidence under oath to the EHRC. I doubt posters making light if this have even bothered to read the leaked testimony. Far easier to mock people highlighting the inconvenient truth. So here are a few examples from the JLM submission. Just a few.
One Jewish Labour member listed 22 examples of antisemitic abuse directed at him at CLP meetings. These included the phrases “Hitler was right”, “child killer” and “shut the f**k up Jew”. (page 4)
One Jewish member shared a breakfast table at party conference with delegates who agreed that Jews were “subhuman” and should “be grateful we don’t make them eat bacon..every day.” (page 5)
One Jewish Labour member alleged an article arguing Jews were overrepresented in the capitalist class was defended on official Labour Party mailing lists. (page 7)
A Jewish sixth-former was forced to leave the Labour Party Forum on Facebook after members sifted through his account for links to Jewish organisations. (page 7)
A Jewish Labour member had made a comment online condemning holocaust denial. The administrator of the Labour Party Forum group responded by calling him a “frothing Hasbara Troll.” (page 8)
One Jewish member faced death threats after she was filmed being upset watching a debate about antisemitism at the Labour Party Conference. (page 8)
One Jewish was the subject of a 30-minute film made by an antisemitic member, who abused him as a “f**king Jew” and threatened to punch him in the face. (page 8)
The membership secretary in South Tottenham CLP allegedly objected to 25 applications from the Jewish community, and required home visits to their houses. This was not a requirement for other members. (page 9)
Three branches in Stockton CLP refused to vote for a motion condemning the Pittsburgh attack in 2018. The opponents felt the word “antisemitism” should be removed from the motion, despite it being the deadliest attack on the Jewish community in the history of the US. (page 14)
A Jewish member was told at a CLP meeting that he should “feel responsible for the Palestinian conflict.” (page 16)
Margaret Hodge was subject to abuse after expressing her feelings on Labour antisemitism. One example includes the phrase “your smear campaign…would make Goebbels proud.” (page 17)
A staff member was appointed despite allegedly having a history of antisemitism. The appointment was signed off personally by Katie Murphy and Jennie Formby. (page 19)
The Leader’s office allegedly interfered directly in the disciplinary process. An advisor allegedly stated that “JC [is] interested in this one, while discussing action on a specific case. (page 22)
Staff in the complaints team were allegedly told that they were not to provide updates or responses in respect of antisemitism complaints. (page 24)
Staff allege that after the 2017 GE, the Leader’s Office expected staff to disregard antisemitic incidents from a long time ago. (page 25)
In early 2019, the decision was taken that Laura Murray would head the complaints team. This means the Leader’s office could control the team directly. (page 26)
Pete Willsman and Claudia Webbe (both alleged to have a history of antisemitism, separately to this report) were said to defend alleged antisemites to the complaints team. (page 27)
One example of a person permitted to remain linked to the party despite suspension was the vice-chair of Woking Labour, who tweeted that Hitler was the “Zionist God”. (page 28)
Some antisemitism cases that go word for word against the Labour Party rule book were subject to blanket exceptions. No suspension issued. (page 32)
Alex Scott-Samuel, who has promoted Rothschild conspiracy theories on a David Icke show, chaired the meeting to discuss Luciana Berger’s replacement. He was never sanctioned. (page 42)
Elleanne Green, a close friend fo Jeremy Corbyn, shared a post blaming “scriptwriters in Tel Aviv” for the Christchurch massacre. The report implies her case is ongoing or she has never been sanctioned. (page 42)
Tom Watson had allegedly forwarded 50 complaints to Corbyn, and no action was taken. Examples of complaints included tweets linking Hitler & the Rothschilds, and questioning whether Jewish MPs had “human blood”. (page 49)
If you read the full document and still believe it's a mystery then it reflects very poorly on you. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 18:42]
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The JLM aren't trustworthy though. Until you look at the actual evidence forensically then there's little to discuss.
All you're doing is repeating accusations. This is how witchhunts work. | |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:53 - Apr 9 with 518 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:45 - Apr 9 by Darth_Koont |
The JLM aren't trustworthy though. Until you look at the actual evidence forensically then there's little to discuss.
All you're doing is repeating accusations. This is how witchhunts work. |
The new leader of the Labour party doesn't share your view of the JLM. Nor does he share your view of the JVL.
As the Board of Deputies said on Monday, Kier Starmer has done more to combat antisemitism in 4 days than Corbyn managed in 4 years.
I'm not particularly wanting another debate on this issue and cover old ground but I can't let Jake's post go unchallenged.
The EHRC will report in due course. | |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 19:01 - Apr 9 with 507 views | Darth_Koont |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 18:53 - Apr 9 by GlasgowBlue |
The new leader of the Labour party doesn't share your view of the JLM. Nor does he share your view of the JVL.
As the Board of Deputies said on Monday, Kier Starmer has done more to combat antisemitism in 4 days than Corbyn managed in 4 years.
I'm not particularly wanting another debate on this issue and cover old ground but I can't let Jake's post go unchallenged.
The EHRC will report in due course. |
It's politics and Labour is in a hole.
But as I think I've made clear over the years: I don't care about politics and I care even less about lobbyists and self-interest groups. I only care about the objective facts and fairness.
What is my view of the JVL? I think they're as partisan and objectively flawed as the JLM. | |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 19:56 - Apr 9 with 469 views | Clapham_Junction |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:53 - Apr 9 by WeWereZombies |
Don't most buses have contactless nowadays? |
All London ones do. They stopped allowing payments on buses a few years ago.
However there was a very recent change of policy to stop allowing people on at rear and middle doors due to fare evasion. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 19:57]
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 20:15 - Apr 9 with 459 views | jeera |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 12:14 - Apr 9 by giant_stow |
Can't agree - people had no eescape form politics ever since Brexit - it's taken a pandemic to finish that.
They just didn't like what Corbyn's labour offered - thankfully its done now and working people have a chance of being represented again. |
I doubt most could tell you what [Corbyn's] Labour were offering.
A mate of mine thought it funny to post things like a meme of Corbyn in Clown boots on FB and when I asked him why he thought I was trying to be argumentative.
I get lots of people didn't like him - he wouldn't be my first choice - but I doubt many of them knew much about his policies because they didn't care and liked the sound of things they did understand such as, "Let's get [whatever] done". |  |
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| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 20:49 - Apr 9 with 445 views | Darth_Koont |
| This from Emily Maitlis is essential viewing on 20:15 - Apr 9 by jeera |
I doubt most could tell you what [Corbyn's] Labour were offering.
A mate of mine thought it funny to post things like a meme of Corbyn in Clown boots on FB and when I asked him why he thought I was trying to be argumentative.
I get lots of people didn't like him - he wouldn't be my first choice - but I doubt many of them knew much about his policies because they didn't care and liked the sound of things they did understand such as, "Let's get [whatever] done". |
That's the problem with politics in this country: It's all a game until it isn't.
Spoiler alert: It's never a game. And certainly not for the people who are under-represented by it.
You're one of the few people who gets that or cares about it. | |
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