| Prem Footballers NHS Fund 10:21 - Apr 10 with 1462 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
It will be interesting to see how much this raises.
In principal, a good idea, but needs to be followed up with significant contributions.
Would also be good to see some mention of / support towards the club's support staff.
A 30% wage cut would have raised c.£75m each month.
Will be interesting to see if the fund reaches those levels. [Post edited 10 Apr 2020 10:22]
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:24 - Apr 10 with 1208 views | sparks |
Call my a cynic...
Society has made the fair point that these people are paid an absolute fortune, whilst folks at their clubs are on furlough or risk losing jobs.
They come under pressure to take steps or agree cuts.
They agree to make voluntary, entirely anonymous donations...
I doubt we will ever be told what the totals produced were (and bear in mind, if gift aided, they will get some tax back on it...). I suspect they will not amount to anything like a 20 or 30% of wages figure. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:26 - Apr 10 with 1203 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:24 - Apr 10 by sparks |
Call my a cynic...
Society has made the fair point that these people are paid an absolute fortune, whilst folks at their clubs are on furlough or risk losing jobs.
They come under pressure to take steps or agree cuts.
They agree to make voluntary, entirely anonymous donations...
I doubt we will ever be told what the totals produced were (and bear in mind, if gift aided, they will get some tax back on it...). I suspect they will not amount to anything like a 20 or 30% of wages figure. |
Coupled with wage deferments rather than cuts!
Barca and Juve players have done it properly. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:26 - Apr 10 with 1204 views | Mullet |
I'm almost feeling a bit sorry for the players. They have been scapegoated horribly and using some pretty poisonous language.
It's the owners that appal me not the players. Likewise the front of Hancock to call them out, send a smug tweet afterwards whilst he rubs shoulders with people who avoid tax and are worth more than entire squads of players.
It's disgusting that our club, let alone those with Prem money would do it to the non-playing staff whilst dishing out thousands a week to individuals. But likewise you can bet the Chambers' of this world would have happily got on the WhatsApp groups and the like to get players involved prior to all of this.
They've been tarred and scorned far too quickly and easily in my opinion, when the owners of clubs got to hide away. When Rooney is coming out and making sense only to be edited and his quotes caveated you know something isn't right there. |  |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:30 - Apr 10 with 1185 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:26 - Apr 10 by Mullet |
I'm almost feeling a bit sorry for the players. They have been scapegoated horribly and using some pretty poisonous language.
It's the owners that appal me not the players. Likewise the front of Hancock to call them out, send a smug tweet afterwards whilst he rubs shoulders with people who avoid tax and are worth more than entire squads of players.
It's disgusting that our club, let alone those with Prem money would do it to the non-playing staff whilst dishing out thousands a week to individuals. But likewise you can bet the Chambers' of this world would have happily got on the WhatsApp groups and the like to get players involved prior to all of this.
They've been tarred and scorned far too quickly and easily in my opinion, when the owners of clubs got to hide away. When Rooney is coming out and making sense only to be edited and his quotes caveated you know something isn't right there. |
They only really got called out when clubs started furloughing players and seeking govt cash.
I agree that they got singled out a little unfairly, but also think they have tried to avoid taking much of a financial hit.
Most top earning staff across UK business have taken significant pay cuts. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:31 - Apr 10 with 1176 views | sparks |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:30 - Apr 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
They only really got called out when clubs started furloughing players and seeking govt cash.
I agree that they got singled out a little unfairly, but also think they have tried to avoid taking much of a financial hit.
Most top earning staff across UK business have taken significant pay cuts. |
Indeed- and many of those at the top of businesses will be seeing those businesses crippled with all that entails. There is a risk of comparing apples with oranges here.
There is also the significant risk of fallaciously referring to the decent ones who are undoubtedly reaosnable and willing, and suggesting that their views apply to all. [Post edited 10 Apr 2020 10:34]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:33 - Apr 10 with 1165 views | Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:30 - Apr 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
They only really got called out when clubs started furloughing players and seeking govt cash.
I agree that they got singled out a little unfairly, but also think they have tried to avoid taking much of a financial hit.
Most top earning staff across UK business have taken significant pay cuts. |
Really? We've seen people like Potter and Lambert in two very different financial positions offering to do so long before and without fanfare until someone "outed" them as it were.
To think they were the only two in football and players were actively avoiding it, but other weren't might need some clarification. Which players have been shown to do that compared to the average Joe or even people in similar tax brackets? | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:36 - Apr 10 with 1148 views | Radlett_blue |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:24 - Apr 10 by sparks |
Call my a cynic...
Society has made the fair point that these people are paid an absolute fortune, whilst folks at their clubs are on furlough or risk losing jobs.
They come under pressure to take steps or agree cuts.
They agree to make voluntary, entirely anonymous donations...
I doubt we will ever be told what the totals produced were (and bear in mind, if gift aided, they will get some tax back on it...). I suspect they will not amount to anything like a 20 or 30% of wages figure. |
Agreed. This is largely a face saving PR exercise. Football is a unique business, whereby the players are under contract & have "transfer value" so the clubs are wary of doing anything that would put them in breach of that contract & entitle a player to a free transfer. Players are wary of greedy owners seeing this as an opportunity to line their pockets.
The reality is that Premier League clubs are going to face severe financial shortfalls if this season isn't completed as the broadcasters will claw back fees. It is not unreasonable to expect players to take most of the financial pain under these circumstances, but I do get why they aren't volunteering wage cuts. A speedy large deferral could have deferred some of the flak until the financial implications for football is resolved. |  |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:38 - Apr 10 with 1137 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:33 - Apr 10 by Mullet |
Really? We've seen people like Potter and Lambert in two very different financial positions offering to do so long before and without fanfare until someone "outed" them as it were.
To think they were the only two in football and players were actively avoiding it, but other weren't might need some clarification. Which players have been shown to do that compared to the average Joe or even people in similar tax brackets? |
I was talking specifically about players.
I applaud the managers taking pay cuts. That seems to make it even stranger that the players don't want to do the same. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:44 - Apr 10 with 1118 views | Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:38 - Apr 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I was talking specifically about players.
I applaud the managers taking pay cuts. That seems to make it even stranger that the players don't want to do the same. |
I know, and you've not engaged with my post at all for convenience it seems.
Rooney has come out and said his piece, Snodgrass too (albeit he lessened it with his I pay tax and NI bit) I'm sure others have too I've not seen.
Are you aware of the things Marcus Rashford has been doing for example? Because it seems a bit odd to suggest players don't want to play their part when they have done things as they see fit such as Danny Rose sending food and supplies to his local hospital, or Alderweild (sp) publicly calling for help and finds weeks ago, rather than simply doing what Hancock demanded after the event.
It seems obvious Henderson was trying to organise something beforehand and has been made to look a bit foolish for doing so by the way it was handled. I'm sure plenty of players deserve criticism, but they are all getting it because of this PR mess and people seem unwilling to want to give any of them credit or a fair hearing now. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:46 - Apr 10 with 1098 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:44 - Apr 10 by Mullet |
I know, and you've not engaged with my post at all for convenience it seems.
Rooney has come out and said his piece, Snodgrass too (albeit he lessened it with his I pay tax and NI bit) I'm sure others have too I've not seen.
Are you aware of the things Marcus Rashford has been doing for example? Because it seems a bit odd to suggest players don't want to play their part when they have done things as they see fit such as Danny Rose sending food and supplies to his local hospital, or Alderweild (sp) publicly calling for help and finds weeks ago, rather than simply doing what Hancock demanded after the event.
It seems obvious Henderson was trying to organise something beforehand and has been made to look a bit foolish for doing so by the way it was handled. I'm sure plenty of players deserve criticism, but they are all getting it because of this PR mess and people seem unwilling to want to give any of them credit or a fair hearing now. |
I just think they could donate more. Like Barca or Juve players have done.
It was suggested they could take a 30% cut, and at the moment they seem unprepared to do so.
If they do end up matching that, then fair play, but we'll see.
Just my opinion. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:52 - Apr 10 with 1085 views | pointofblue |
I thought the 'scandal' started because Premier League clubs were furloughing off field staff whilst still paying full wages to the players? Wasn't the point some were making that, if the players took a cut, the money could be paid too the off field staff instead meaning the furloughing funds could be spent elsewhere?
Admittedly I think only four Premier League clubs out of 20 have furloughed staff so far and credit is still due for the iniative. I'm still not sure if Premier League footballers live in the real world though, where a lot of people earn in a year what they earn in a week. Of course they're not the only ones but bankers, business leaders etc. are the ones making important decisions in how to sort this out economically - though I do think they're on too much too. |  |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:56 - Apr 10 with 1080 views | Radlett_blue |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:52 - Apr 10 by pointofblue |
I thought the 'scandal' started because Premier League clubs were furloughing off field staff whilst still paying full wages to the players? Wasn't the point some were making that, if the players took a cut, the money could be paid too the off field staff instead meaning the furloughing funds could be spent elsewhere?
Admittedly I think only four Premier League clubs out of 20 have furloughed staff so far and credit is still due for the iniative. I'm still not sure if Premier League footballers live in the real world though, where a lot of people earn in a year what they earn in a week. Of course they're not the only ones but bankers, business leaders etc. are the ones making important decisions in how to sort this out economically - though I do think they're on too much too. |
Yes, Premier League clubs furloughing non-playing staff while paying players in full got people's attention. The problem is players' contractual status & potential transfer value. The Premier League were hoping to come up with a League-wide agreement, but I think this was torpedoed by the usual intransigence of the PFA. So now PL clubs will try to reach voluntary agreements with their players. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:59 - Apr 10 with 1071 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:46 - Apr 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I just think they could donate more. Like Barca or Juve players have done.
It was suggested they could take a 30% cut, and at the moment they seem unprepared to do so.
If they do end up matching that, then fair play, but we'll see.
Just my opinion. |
You've got absolutely no idea whatsoever what these players are donating to this NHS fund. You've also got absolutely no idea whatsoever what they are donating elsewhere - for instance I suspect a lot of the foreign lads are donating money to causes in their own home countries too.
You also have to remember wage cuts = PAYE/NI reduction too.
As with any industry, there will be 'good guys' and 'bad guys'.
Players/clubs will be coming to their own arrangements irrespective of this fund I am sure in order to ensure that clubs can carry on operating from a cash flow perspective over the next few months (and that includes being able to ensure support staff receive their money). [Post edited 10 Apr 2020 11:04]
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:00 - Apr 10 with 1065 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:56 - Apr 10 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, Premier League clubs furloughing non-playing staff while paying players in full got people's attention. The problem is players' contractual status & potential transfer value. The Premier League were hoping to come up with a League-wide agreement, but I think this was torpedoed by the usual intransigence of the PFA. So now PL clubs will try to reach voluntary agreements with their players. |
You're probably right in that the blame for the way this has played out sits with the PFA rather than the players.
Bit of a PR disaster in the end. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:03 - Apr 10 with 1049 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:59 - Apr 10 by tractorboy1978 |
You've got absolutely no idea whatsoever what these players are donating to this NHS fund. You've also got absolutely no idea whatsoever what they are donating elsewhere - for instance I suspect a lot of the foreign lads are donating money to causes in their own home countries too.
You also have to remember wage cuts = PAYE/NI reduction too.
As with any industry, there will be 'good guys' and 'bad guys'.
Players/clubs will be coming to their own arrangements irrespective of this fund I am sure in order to ensure that clubs can carry on operating from a cash flow perspective over the next few months (and that includes being able to ensure support staff receive their money). [Post edited 10 Apr 2020 11:04]
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Read my OP.
As I said, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. You have no idea of the contributions either.
The tax issue is a bit of a red herring, as charitable donations have the same issues due to tax relief and gift aid from the govt.
It's fine to disagree.
Like I said, it will be interesting to see how it plays out$ | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:12 - Apr 10 with 1022 views | footers |
Ideally we'd have a self-supporting NHS without needing to rely on private patronage.
Once all this is over, hopefully we can look at addressing this properly. You can't fix the NHS by clapping. |  |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:12 - Apr 10 with 1016 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:03 - Apr 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Read my OP.
As I said, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. You have no idea of the contributions either.
The tax issue is a bit of a red herring, as charitable donations have the same issues due to tax relief and gift aid from the govt.
It's fine to disagree.
Like I said, it will be interesting to see how it plays out$ |
I'm not the one passing judgement when I don't have the facts at my disposal. | | | |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:15 - Apr 10 with 1008 views | pointofblue |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:12 - Apr 10 by footers |
Ideally we'd have a self-supporting NHS without needing to rely on private patronage.
Once all this is over, hopefully we can look at addressing this properly. You can't fix the NHS by clapping. |
In terms of finances the NHS has not been fit for purpose for decades; the issues have grown whilst the funding hasn't been able to keep up under successive governments. The structure of the NHS, with much closer working particularly with adult social care, needs overhauled so any, much needed and deserved, income increase actually has an impact. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:15 - Apr 10 with 1007 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:12 - Apr 10 by tractorboy1978 |
I'm not the one passing judgement when I don't have the facts at my disposal. |
Simply posing a question dear. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:17 - Apr 10 with 999 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:12 - Apr 10 by footers |
Ideally we'd have a self-supporting NHS without needing to rely on private patronage.
Once all this is over, hopefully we can look at addressing this properly. You can't fix the NHS by clapping. |
Essentially I guess it does rely on private patronage, in terms of our tax contributions.
We'll need to think about accepting higher NI contributions in order to invest more in the NHS. | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:18 - Apr 10 with 993 views | BlueBadger |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:15 - Apr 10 by pointofblue |
In terms of finances the NHS has not been fit for purpose for decades; the issues have grown whilst the funding hasn't been able to keep up under successive governments. The structure of the NHS, with much closer working particularly with adult social care, needs overhauled so any, much needed and deserved, income increase actually has an impact. |
The abolition of the internal market needs to happen. At least £4BN a year goes on administering nd running the process of tendering out services, quite often to people who then can't run them properly. |  |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:23 - Apr 10 with 984 views | pointofblue |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:18 - Apr 10 by BlueBadger |
The abolition of the internal market needs to happen. At least £4BN a year goes on administering nd running the process of tendering out services, quite often to people who then can't run them properly. |
The question is is it still cheaper for the NHS to put these services out to tender rather than finance them in full itself? | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 12:16 - Apr 10 with 890 views | Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 10:46 - Apr 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I just think they could donate more. Like Barca or Juve players have done.
It was suggested they could take a 30% cut, and at the moment they seem unprepared to do so.
If they do end up matching that, then fair play, but we'll see.
Just my opinion. |
Although they are both massive entities in country's which were suffering far more, far earlier, did they do it at roughly the same time of "need"? Likewise Barca are propped up by the banks and community in a very different model to most of our clubs, and the PR aspect is different for both of those clubs.
You seem to have climbed down on the initial assumption of the OP, nobody is saying more couldn't be done, but you've completely absolved owners et al. where convenient here. The government and the owners should be scrutinised far more, but the players as the public faces and the resent that they engender seems to override that.
Their obscene wages seem to seen as public property in a way the CEOs and the 1% isn't, it's bizarre.
Nowhere have you presented anything to back up more than a fairly offhand hunch and you seem to be unaware or ignoring the players that have acted. That seems totally unfair, why should they be copping it when they don't take the decision to furlough other staff? | |
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 12:39 - Apr 10 with 860 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 12:16 - Apr 10 by Mullet |
Although they are both massive entities in country's which were suffering far more, far earlier, did they do it at roughly the same time of "need"? Likewise Barca are propped up by the banks and community in a very different model to most of our clubs, and the PR aspect is different for both of those clubs.
You seem to have climbed down on the initial assumption of the OP, nobody is saying more couldn't be done, but you've completely absolved owners et al. where convenient here. The government and the owners should be scrutinised far more, but the players as the public faces and the resent that they engender seems to override that.
Their obscene wages seem to seen as public property in a way the CEOs and the 1% isn't, it's bizarre.
Nowhere have you presented anything to back up more than a fairly offhand hunch and you seem to be unaware or ignoring the players that have acted. That seems totally unfair, why should they be copping it when they don't take the decision to furlough other staff? |
I havent absolved owners at all.
And many FTSE 250 CEO's have taken significant paycuts.
Check your facts. [Post edited 10 Apr 2020 12:39]
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| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 13:06 - Apr 10 with 813 views | factual_blue |
| Prem Footballers NHS Fund on 11:17 - Apr 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Essentially I guess it does rely on private patronage, in terms of our tax contributions.
We'll need to think about accepting higher NI contributions in order to invest more in the NHS. |
Tax contributions aren't 'private patronage'. |  |
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