| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:52 - Apr 13 with 1059 views | jeera |
Momentarily putting that aside, I don't like this bit much:
"The EU’s procurement of 28 February initially failed due to a lack of interest from suppliers".
Oh I'm sorry, not enough money for you [whoever 'you' are]. |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:56 - Apr 13 with 1050 views | SpruceMoose |
Something we do agree on. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:58 - Apr 13 with 1045 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:52 - Apr 13 by jeera |
Momentarily putting that aside, I don't like this bit much:
"The EU’s procurement of 28 February initially failed due to a lack of interest from suppliers".
Oh I'm sorry, not enough money for you [whoever 'you' are]. |
Surely we could have answered that call somewhat ourselves now we’re making them? |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:59 - Apr 13 with 1040 views | jeera |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:58 - Apr 13 by monytowbray |
Surely we could have answered that call somewhat ourselves now we’re making them? |
You misunderstand.
I'm not disagreeing with anything.
I'm saying that whoever these suppliers are/were, have their priorities wrong. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:00 - Apr 14 with 1040 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:56 - Apr 13 by SpruceMoose |
Something we do agree on. |
Your silence in recent threads had me believe as much! You love a Callis pile in! ;)
You’re US side aren’t you? How is it where you are? My daughter says her part of North Carolina seems okay for now so hopefully a glimmer of hope there is it won’t go too rural. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:02 - Apr 14 with 1030 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 23:59 - Apr 13 by jeera |
You misunderstand.
I'm not disagreeing with anything.
I'm saying that whoever these suppliers are/were, have their priorities wrong. |
Noooo! I’m not disagreeing. I agree 100%. Was just an additional thought off the back of what you said.
If we have the means to answer that call, even if delayed and in limited numbers, it’s better than doing nothing surely? I would have expected a little bit more compassion from us I guess.
If that’s the case of course. No idea if it would have been a green light situation regardless of money. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:03 - Apr 14 with 1026 views | factual_blue |
balls |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:11 - Apr 14 with 1006 views | SpruceMoose |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:00 - Apr 14 by monytowbray |
Your silence in recent threads had me believe as much! You love a Callis pile in! ;)
You’re US side aren’t you? How is it where you are? My daughter says her part of North Carolina seems okay for now so hopefully a glimmer of hope there is it won’t go too rural. |
You know, as members of the lefty bumfest we probably agree on far more stuff than we disagree on! Over a pint it would be fine. But I' love a bit of needle and I think your delivery sucks at times so...
New York is having a hard time of it. So many immigrants having to work just to eat, earning cash or tips to scrape by. The virus really does impact the poorest the most.
We are way ahead of the rest of the country here. It's so dense compared to elsewhere, and there's so much reliance on public transport that it's bound to be. So it's hitting pretty hard. On the plus side we have great medical facilities and they seem to be doing a magnificent job and just about keeping on top of things. Everything that's achieved is immediately undermined by Trump though.
The father in law is down in NC, and I do worry that rural America won't know what has hit it if really takes of out there. Seens to be the attitude that it's a city problem out there. [Post edited 14 Apr 2020 0:13]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:14 - Apr 14 with 998 views | pointofblue |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:02 - Apr 14 by monytowbray |
Noooo! I’m not disagreeing. I agree 100%. Was just an additional thought off the back of what you said.
If we have the means to answer that call, even if delayed and in limited numbers, it’s better than doing nothing surely? I would have expected a little bit more compassion from us I guess.
If that’s the case of course. No idea if it would have been a green light situation regardless of money. |
Though we’re going to be tying ourselves up in circles on this one - either we should be taking part of the scheme as a requester or as a country donating products. Unless we have a lot of one thing but not enough of something else so we could do a ‘swap’.
I understand that it’s a very difficult scenario for numerous governments across the globe but our lot have made a mess of this, from lack of border control to the ridiculous pub request to slow lockdown to lack of PPE to their approach to care homes. There’s being behind the curve and there’s still scratching around at the start. |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:16 - Apr 14 with 989 views | jeera |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:02 - Apr 14 by monytowbray |
Noooo! I’m not disagreeing. I agree 100%. Was just an additional thought off the back of what you said.
If we have the means to answer that call, even if delayed and in limited numbers, it’s better than doing nothing surely? I would have expected a little bit more compassion from us I guess.
If that’s the case of course. No idea if it would have been a green light situation regardless of money. |
It's not just about compassion. It's about availability too.
The whole procurement thing has been a bit weird to me. It's all very well doing deals about who can get the best price etc, but this situation should be above all of that. How can money be an object and who exactly are we or the EU been hoping to score from exactly? I want to see facts, figures, products available, to what specification and to what quantity.
When goods have become available the US have been [allegedly] stepping in and outbidding, grabbing all they can. Well they've shown their colours and cannot be trusted.
I grew up in the rag trade and tried clumsily the other day to bring up the point about sounding out to the UK textile industry.
Why weren't samples sent out across the country? 'This is what we want, can you do it, how many, and when by?'
If the suitable materials aren't available, why not, where can they be obtained, how can they be made and also can our factories with yarn machines knock those up too?
20 years ago I'd have had the answers to my own questions, but things have changed. The industry had changed. We buy in so much more now and produce relatively little, but I know around the outskirts of London, Leicester, Rochdale and a hundred other places there are factories geared up to make almost anything you ask for.
I want to know why there have not been plans in place, why the government only seem to know about big industry and why they overlook the hundreds if not thousands of manufacturers who could knock up this stuff with their eyes shut. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:26 - Apr 14 with 972 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:16 - Apr 14 by jeera |
It's not just about compassion. It's about availability too.
The whole procurement thing has been a bit weird to me. It's all very well doing deals about who can get the best price etc, but this situation should be above all of that. How can money be an object and who exactly are we or the EU been hoping to score from exactly? I want to see facts, figures, products available, to what specification and to what quantity.
When goods have become available the US have been [allegedly] stepping in and outbidding, grabbing all they can. Well they've shown their colours and cannot be trusted.
I grew up in the rag trade and tried clumsily the other day to bring up the point about sounding out to the UK textile industry.
Why weren't samples sent out across the country? 'This is what we want, can you do it, how many, and when by?'
If the suitable materials aren't available, why not, where can they be obtained, how can they be made and also can our factories with yarn machines knock those up too?
20 years ago I'd have had the answers to my own questions, but things have changed. The industry had changed. We buy in so much more now and produce relatively little, but I know around the outskirts of London, Leicester, Rochdale and a hundred other places there are factories geared up to make almost anything you ask for.
I want to know why there have not been plans in place, why the government only seem to know about big industry and why they overlook the hundreds if not thousands of manufacturers who could knock up this stuff with their eyes shut. |
The short argument would be it was a good opportunity to chuck some hefty contracts over to their mates who help find the party.
Which honestly, I would not put past them. It may not have even been intentional, it’s just how they work. It’s normal for them. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:27 - Apr 14 with 967 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:14 - Apr 14 by pointofblue |
Though we’re going to be tying ourselves up in circles on this one - either we should be taking part of the scheme as a requester or as a country donating products. Unless we have a lot of one thing but not enough of something else so we could do a ‘swap’.
I understand that it’s a very difficult scenario for numerous governments across the globe but our lot have made a mess of this, from lack of border control to the ridiculous pub request to slow lockdown to lack of PPE to their approach to care homes. There’s being behind the curve and there’s still scratching around at the start. |
Good point I guess. It is a bloody global mess though and we really haven’t helped ourselves.
There will be a lot of fragmented national relations out the window after this. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:34 - Apr 14 with 958 views | jeera |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:26 - Apr 14 by monytowbray |
The short argument would be it was a good opportunity to chuck some hefty contracts over to their mates who help find the party.
Which honestly, I would not put past them. It may not have even been intentional, it’s just how they work. It’s normal for them. |
I actually believe those in charge have little understanding of their own country and this is what happens when you have people in charge of departments with no personal experience.
If I said to one of them - a single person in government - the mini rant I just gave out a few minutes ago, I don't think they would be any the wiser.
There are thousands of skilled machinists who could make protective equipment for frontline staff. They are here and already kitted out, ready to go.
Give them a brief and let them get on with it. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:54 - Apr 14 with 944 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:34 - Apr 14 by jeera |
I actually believe those in charge have little understanding of their own country and this is what happens when you have people in charge of departments with no personal experience.
If I said to one of them - a single person in government - the mini rant I just gave out a few minutes ago, I don't think they would be any the wiser.
There are thousands of skilled machinists who could make protective equipment for frontline staff. They are here and already kitted out, ready to go.
Give them a brief and let them get on with it. |
As someone who works in the web business and is yet to encounter a single Government website that is fit for purpose on a national and local level, this point resonates with me.
Although they seem to have no issue throwing a load of money at Google and Facebook willy nilly. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:55 - Apr 14 with 941 views | pointofblue |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:34 - Apr 14 by jeera |
I actually believe those in charge have little understanding of their own country and this is what happens when you have people in charge of departments with no personal experience.
If I said to one of them - a single person in government - the mini rant I just gave out a few minutes ago, I don't think they would be any the wiser.
There are thousands of skilled machinists who could make protective equipment for frontline staff. They are here and already kitted out, ready to go.
Give them a brief and let them get on with it. |
The damage of May’s ministry seeing a bleed of resignations followed by the Johnson revamp. Not many ministers have been in their respective posts to have a grip of everything - Hancock’s only been in post for about twenty months; Patel’s been at the Home office for a year less than that, same as Raab at the Foreign Office and obviously Johnson as PM, whilst Sunak only took up the Chancellor role last month. In comparison, under Cameron, the Chancellor, the Health Secretary and the Home Secretary all remained the same throughout his tenure whilst the post of Foreign Secretary was Hague’s for four years before switching to Hammond. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 01:21 - Apr 14 with 918 views | jeera |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:55 - Apr 14 by pointofblue |
The damage of May’s ministry seeing a bleed of resignations followed by the Johnson revamp. Not many ministers have been in their respective posts to have a grip of everything - Hancock’s only been in post for about twenty months; Patel’s been at the Home office for a year less than that, same as Raab at the Foreign Office and obviously Johnson as PM, whilst Sunak only took up the Chancellor role last month. In comparison, under Cameron, the Chancellor, the Health Secretary and the Home Secretary all remained the same throughout his tenure whilst the post of Foreign Secretary was Hague’s for four years before switching to Hammond. |
How can this crisis be handled by people given vanity positions? | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:25 - Apr 14 with 786 views | Leaky |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 00:55 - Apr 14 by pointofblue |
The damage of May’s ministry seeing a bleed of resignations followed by the Johnson revamp. Not many ministers have been in their respective posts to have a grip of everything - Hancock’s only been in post for about twenty months; Patel’s been at the Home office for a year less than that, same as Raab at the Foreign Office and obviously Johnson as PM, whilst Sunak only took up the Chancellor role last month. In comparison, under Cameron, the Chancellor, the Health Secretary and the Home Secretary all remained the same throughout his tenure whilst the post of Foreign Secretary was Hague’s for four years before switching to Hammond. |
Take your point , if however Mr Corbyn had one the election would we have been in a worse situation as the whole of government would only have been in place since December! |  | | |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:29 - Apr 14 with 778 views | TractorWood |
Madness. There is going to be a massive investigation into the Government's handling of Covid-19.
Suspect it won't be make for pleasant reading. |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:36 - Apr 14 with 770 views | GeoffSentence |
I've read that and I don't see any sign of nationalism being the problem, it seems to be pure cock-up.
"The UK government has previously said it was unable to join the EU’s procurement schemes as it had not received an email of invitation."
"It is understood that officials in Whitehall only realised after those three rounds had been put out to tender that they had not received invitations to join the Joint Procurement Agreement steering committee where the orders are organised.
The UK only took part in its first meeting on joint procurement on 19 March after informing the commission that emails of invitation were being sent to an outdated address"
Unless I am missing something we aren't getting PPE from the joint purchasing agreement, not because of any nationalist tendencies, but because the invitiations were sent to the wrong place.
Correct me if I am wrong. |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:53 - Apr 14 with 743 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:36 - Apr 14 by GeoffSentence |
I've read that and I don't see any sign of nationalism being the problem, it seems to be pure cock-up.
"The UK government has previously said it was unable to join the EU’s procurement schemes as it had not received an email of invitation."
"It is understood that officials in Whitehall only realised after those three rounds had been put out to tender that they had not received invitations to join the Joint Procurement Agreement steering committee where the orders are organised.
The UK only took part in its first meeting on joint procurement on 19 March after informing the commission that emails of invitation were being sent to an outdated address"
Unless I am missing something we aren't getting PPE from the joint purchasing agreement, not because of any nationalist tendencies, but because the invitiations were sent to the wrong place.
Correct me if I am wrong. |
The situation is almost definitely more complicated and involved than what the Guardian makes out and I would be interested to see what if anything becomes of this mountain of PPE.
"The EU procurement scheme has not been entirely successful, however. While deliveries of masks, gowns and gloves will be made in tranches over the next two to 18 weeks, the procurement of ventilators will be slow, according to a leaked EU document."
Quite frankly this has become a complete repetition of Brexit where it's a 100m sprint to report things without checking facts, and then you have swivel eyed loons rushing to push their agenda on here.
If mistakes have been made at any time then it will come out in the wash and one would hope that the fact that we are in times not faced since WW11 that this will be taken into consideration. Largely I have been mightily impressed by opposition government and certain (usually anti Tory) posters on here who recognise the scale of the problem and offer balanced opinion.
I am waiting for Callis to post his condemnation of the EU for leaving Spain and Italy out to dry and fact that the eurozone's emergency plan to fight Covid-19 is all but sunk. |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 09:00 - Apr 14 with 732 views | Pinewoodblue |
While Brexit may be madness the title of your Post is just not true.
If you read the article you will see that none of of the PPE has been delivered yet, so how could that equipment have saved lives.
Incidentally the ventilators ordered under this purchase scheme will be delivered over the next year.
The Guardian is becoming as blinkered as the DM. |  |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 09:13 - Apr 14 with 705 views | BloomBlue |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:53 - Apr 14 by Lord_Lucan |
The situation is almost definitely more complicated and involved than what the Guardian makes out and I would be interested to see what if anything becomes of this mountain of PPE.
"The EU procurement scheme has not been entirely successful, however. While deliveries of masks, gowns and gloves will be made in tranches over the next two to 18 weeks, the procurement of ventilators will be slow, according to a leaked EU document."
Quite frankly this has become a complete repetition of Brexit where it's a 100m sprint to report things without checking facts, and then you have swivel eyed loons rushing to push their agenda on here.
If mistakes have been made at any time then it will come out in the wash and one would hope that the fact that we are in times not faced since WW11 that this will be taken into consideration. Largely I have been mightily impressed by opposition government and certain (usually anti Tory) posters on here who recognise the scale of the problem and offer balanced opinion.
I am waiting for Callis to post his condemnation of the EU for leaving Spain and Italy out to dry and fact that the eurozone's emergency plan to fight Covid-19 is all but sunk. |
The female from the WHO on the TV at the weekend made the point the whole world is short of PPE because the raw materials are in short supply. The problem every country is facing is they require PPE for health care people who have never required it before. Plus when CV first arrived it hit China, the Country who make most of the worlds PPE, and rightly 1) China wanted to keep it to fight CV and 2) it would have been wrong for other Countries to take it from China when it was required to fight CV in China. Production slowed and now the world is now playing catch-up |  | | |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 09:33 - Apr 14 with 684 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:53 - Apr 14 by Lord_Lucan |
The situation is almost definitely more complicated and involved than what the Guardian makes out and I would be interested to see what if anything becomes of this mountain of PPE.
"The EU procurement scheme has not been entirely successful, however. While deliveries of masks, gowns and gloves will be made in tranches over the next two to 18 weeks, the procurement of ventilators will be slow, according to a leaked EU document."
Quite frankly this has become a complete repetition of Brexit where it's a 100m sprint to report things without checking facts, and then you have swivel eyed loons rushing to push their agenda on here.
If mistakes have been made at any time then it will come out in the wash and one would hope that the fact that we are in times not faced since WW11 that this will be taken into consideration. Largely I have been mightily impressed by opposition government and certain (usually anti Tory) posters on here who recognise the scale of the problem and offer balanced opinion.
I am waiting for Callis to post his condemnation of the EU for leaving Spain and Italy out to dry and fact that the eurozone's emergency plan to fight Covid-19 is all but sunk. |
The article addresses PPE and ventilators. We desperately need PPE. The healthcare death rate is not a good number.
The ventilator point doesn’t change that fact. It looks likely they’ve managed to sort this whilst we struggle.
I’m not sure what more of this picture needs to be painted before more people concede we’ve made a mess of this. It’s not like any of this stuff is news, it’s been us hurdling towards such an obvious outcome for weeks. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 09:35 - Apr 14 with 679 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 08:29 - Apr 14 by TractorWood |
Madness. There is going to be a massive investigation into the Government's handling of Covid-19.
Suspect it won't be make for pleasant reading. |
Unless they do the classic swerve of blaming someone else or suppressing the report. Grenfell and Russia come to mind.
It amazes me how people aren’t bothered by these holes in what we know as the truth. | |
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| Our nationalism has cost lives on 09:40 - Apr 14 with 667 views | monytowbray |
| Our nationalism has cost lives on 09:13 - Apr 14 by BloomBlue |
The female from the WHO on the TV at the weekend made the point the whole world is short of PPE because the raw materials are in short supply. The problem every country is facing is they require PPE for health care people who have never required it before. Plus when CV first arrived it hit China, the Country who make most of the worlds PPE, and rightly 1) China wanted to keep it to fight CV and 2) it would have been wrong for other Countries to take it from China when it was required to fight CV in China. Production slowed and now the world is now playing catch-up |
“ European doctors and nurses are preparing to receive the first of €1.5bn (£1.3bn) worth of personal protective equipment (PPE) within days or a maximum of two weeks through a joint procurement scheme involving 25 countries and eight companies, according to internal EU documents.
The EU’s swift work has led to offers of medical equipment, including masks, overalls and goggles, in excess of the number requested, a spokesman for the European commission said. The EU is separately establishing stockpiles within member states, with the first being set up in Romania.” | |
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