| I think there are many Brexit voters 19:30 - Apr 19 with 4789 views | ghostofescobar |
Shifting uncomfortably in their seats, and perhaps feeling a tad guilty, because, whatever they may say in public, actually voted along lines of prejudice in the vote (get foreigners out), but have absolutely no arguments now they realise that this country relies massively on migrant labour: NHS, carers, van drivers, warehouse staff etc etc. If the Brexit vote was actually planned for the end of this year, it would undoubtably end in “remain”. I think my own parents would be entwined in this conundrum. |  |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:42 - Apr 19 with 733 views | jeera |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:37 - Apr 19 by midastouch |
The main point I'm making is simply this, I find it disrespectful to be put in a box where I'm branded a xenophobe just because I don't buy into the economic vision or future of the EU. That's the judgement call I made at the referendum. That's all. You might think I got that call wrong. If the EU is still going strong in 10 or 20 years (and we're left in their shadow) then I would be the first to admit I made a wrong call. But that's the call I made at the referendum, ultimately, only time will tell if I was right or wrong. |
If the EU is still going [or not] doesn't work as an indicator if our leaving is one of the reasons it may fail. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 23:43]
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:46 - Apr 19 with 727 views | jeera |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:38 - Apr 19 by J2BLUE |
And that is why you bow before me as your king. |
It's becoming apparent from those figures that Ulla is your new right hand man. | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:56 - Apr 19 with 722 views | J2BLUE |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:46 - Apr 19 by jeera |
It's becoming apparent from those figures that Ulla is your new right hand man. |
He is the hand of the king. There were some good candidates but he just had that 20% extra. |  |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:59 - Apr 19 with 720 views | midastouch |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:42 - Apr 19 by jeera |
If the EU is still going [or not] doesn't work as an indicator if our leaving is one of the reasons it may fail. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 23:43]
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I don't want us to be on the hook for the massive EU debt problem. We've got way too much of our own debt already, we don't need to add stacks more on top. Better we just pay our dues now and walk away, as whatever final settlement we agree to pay to the EU will be like small beer compared to what is coming. Germany and Holland are already dragging their feet about how to sort out Italy. They don't seem capable of getting their house in order.
The bail-in legislation introduced in 2015 essentially means that, "...shareholders, bondholders and even depositors" will be on the hook when it all turns south.
See here:
http://www.quorumcentre.com/reports/recent-italian-and-spanish-bank-bail-ins-are
"The examples of Spain and Italy are only the beginning of a major shakeup in the EU banking system. The banks involved so far were relatively small. Regulators have yet to handle a large financial institution. Exception to the bail-in rules, as was the case in Italy recently, will not be the norm going forward. We expect not only more banks to be forced into bail-ins, we also expect banking regulators to mishandle the bail-in process as the number (and size) of banks going down this route increases causing a potential widespread banking crisis.
The bottom line
EU banks have not been able to solve their EUR1 trillion (US$1.18 trillion) bad debt problems over the last decade. Bail-in rules put in place since 2015 will force banks to rescue themselves during the next crisis, which means shareholders, bondholders and even depositors will lose money. For an example of what could happen, look no further than Cyprus. GCC banks are much safer than EU banks." |  |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:03 - Apr 20 with 717 views | Enigma_Blue |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 22:25 - Apr 19 by BlueBadger |
We're people who are largely evidence-based in our decision making. As yet, no evidence has emerged to change our minds that Brexit is sane, sensible, a good idea and Not At All Rooted In Petty Xenophobia. |
Whether you and I or anyone else that voted remain thinks that Brexit isn't sane, sensible or a good idea, to label everyone who voted for Brexit as xenophobic is a bit lazy and narrow minded.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2016/07/05/3-reasons-brits-voted-for-br [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 0:15]
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:07 - Apr 20 with 703 views | factual_blue |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:37 - Apr 19 by midastouch |
The main point I'm making is simply this, I find it disrespectful to be put in a box where I'm branded a xenophobe just because I don't buy into the economic vision or future of the EU. That's the judgement call I made at the referendum. That's all. You might think I got that call wrong. If the EU is still going strong in 10 or 20 years (and we're left in their shadow) then I would be the first to admit I made a wrong call. But that's the call I made at the referendum, ultimately, only time will tell if I was right or wrong. |
Sadly the leave campaign was based entirely on racism and xenophobia, and you'll have to wake up every morning and accept that you chose a side that relied on those abhorrent ideas.
Although 'ideas' dignifies xenophobia and racism, and they don't deserve to be dignified |  |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:09 - Apr 20 with 699 views | jeera |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:59 - Apr 19 by midastouch |
I don't want us to be on the hook for the massive EU debt problem. We've got way too much of our own debt already, we don't need to add stacks more on top. Better we just pay our dues now and walk away, as whatever final settlement we agree to pay to the EU will be like small beer compared to what is coming. Germany and Holland are already dragging their feet about how to sort out Italy. They don't seem capable of getting their house in order.
The bail-in legislation introduced in 2015 essentially means that, "...shareholders, bondholders and even depositors" will be on the hook when it all turns south.
See here:
http://www.quorumcentre.com/reports/recent-italian-and-spanish-bank-bail-ins-are
"The examples of Spain and Italy are only the beginning of a major shakeup in the EU banking system. The banks involved so far were relatively small. Regulators have yet to handle a large financial institution. Exception to the bail-in rules, as was the case in Italy recently, will not be the norm going forward. We expect not only more banks to be forced into bail-ins, we also expect banking regulators to mishandle the bail-in process as the number (and size) of banks going down this route increases causing a potential widespread banking crisis.
The bottom line
EU banks have not been able to solve their EUR1 trillion (US$1.18 trillion) bad debt problems over the last decade. Bail-in rules put in place since 2015 will force banks to rescue themselves during the next crisis, which means shareholders, bondholders and even depositors will lose money. For an example of what could happen, look no further than Cyprus. GCC banks are much safer than EU banks." |
Please don't think I'm being rude but there's no chance I'm reading pages of stuff.
It's late, I'm tired and a beer or 2 and a bottle of red later than I was before I'd had beer and the wine.
I am aware that the Eu is far from the perfect entity, but instead of waiting and hoping for it to go wrong in order to be proved right, or something, the UK had a chance to make a few calls of its own and influence the organisation.
Who knows? With our own home-grown geniuses maybe we could have offered something to have made a difference instead of looking to sabotage the relationship recent years.
As for throwing about financial figures, experts aplenty have forecast that the UK could lose a lot of money through business relocation, and general mistrust in us as a trusted partner.
You were right the first time, we will see.
I'd rather not take the risk but there you go. To what gains? | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:16 - Apr 20 with 691 views | midastouch |
Thanks for posting that. As it says in the link you posted, the first reason a lot of people chose to vote Brexit was based on pure economics. That really shouldn't be such a surprise to anybody, given how the perceived state of the economy is often the telling factor in deciding political outcomes. As Clinton famously said, "It's the economy, stupid." | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:27 - Apr 20 with 677 views | jeera |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:16 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
Thanks for posting that. As it says in the link you posted, the first reason a lot of people chose to vote Brexit was based on pure economics. That really shouldn't be such a surprise to anybody, given how the perceived state of the economy is often the telling factor in deciding political outcomes. As Clinton famously said, "It's the economy, stupid." |
To be fair I don't think point 2: Sovereignty, does too much for the rest of your claim. | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:30 - Apr 20 with 674 views | midastouch |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:07 - Apr 20 by factual_blue |
Sadly the leave campaign was based entirely on racism and xenophobia, and you'll have to wake up every morning and accept that you chose a side that relied on those abhorrent ideas.
Although 'ideas' dignifies xenophobia and racism, and they don't deserve to be dignified |
There we go again, so quick to pass judgement aren't we.
As I said previously, rather than any of us judging or condemning others surely there is a better way, that is we keep our focus on our own contributions to the world. You're not ever going to win anybody round to your way of thinking (from across the divide) by trying to put them on a guilt trip. Can't we do better than that? | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:35 - Apr 20 with 669 views | midastouch |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:27 - Apr 20 by jeera |
To be fair I don't think point 2: Sovereignty, does too much for the rest of your claim. |
Of course some people felt urged to vote over sovereignty. But that wasn't the telling factor that got me out to vote. | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 01:35 - Apr 20 with 632 views | midastouch |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 00:30 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
There we go again, so quick to pass judgement aren't we.
As I said previously, rather than any of us judging or condemning others surely there is a better way, that is we keep our focus on our own contributions to the world. You're not ever going to win anybody round to your way of thinking (from across the divide) by trying to put them on a guilt trip. Can't we do better than that? |
And it would be like me saying anybody who voted for Labour at the last election (because of their ongoing issues with anti-Semitism) should be ashamed as a result. That's just a ridiculous argument because every party has their fringe nutjobs. If we all got that morally particular no party would be deemed worthy of a vote. Who did you vote for in the last election? No offence if you'd rather not say, but it's worth at least asking in case you were open enough to say. Are there no elements in whichever party you voted for that you wish would take their voice elsewhere? Obviously I know some of the people that voted Brexit were racist. And so were some of the people that voted for the Labour and Conservative party at the last election (neither of which I voted for). But Britain is nothing like as racist as it once was. I went to football matches in the 80s (and saw banana skins thrown at players at places like Carrot Road), but compare those days to what we have now. Things have moved on massively for the better, surely you can acknowledge that? There's still work to be done but there has been massive progress in the last generation or so.
Sadly referendums always cause division down some sort of lines. But it's time we looked to heal wounds rather than constantly peeling off the old scabs. Brexit is old news now, what's done is done. Covid-19 is the only horror show in town at present. Brexit is a mere sideshow for now. | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 07:40 - Apr 20 with 564 views | Mullet |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 21:15 - Apr 19 by Clapham_Junction |
Sadly I doubt it. Many are like Trump voters — completely unwilling to engage in critical thought or consider anything contrary to their viewpoint. As long as they get their way, that's all that matters, to hell with the consequences or any requirement for integrity from the politicians implementing what they want.
Kudos to the likes of J2 who admitted they made a mistake. |
In fairness, Brexit was built entirely on lies and predicated on the oldest mob rule tactics going. Hence why cartoons of Boris out of hospital had the "you owe them £350m a week" type punchlines everywhere and people are just shrugging at them.
It's also being continued with this ironically Commie clap and cheer or you're on a list type stuff that has exploded. I actually think the EU might be going to be similarly challenged like the USA is, as Trump plays state against state there you'll see nations here hit harder than others and wondering if they should/could help or walk away I guess. |  |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 07:52 - Apr 20 with 552 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 01:35 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
And it would be like me saying anybody who voted for Labour at the last election (because of their ongoing issues with anti-Semitism) should be ashamed as a result. That's just a ridiculous argument because every party has their fringe nutjobs. If we all got that morally particular no party would be deemed worthy of a vote. Who did you vote for in the last election? No offence if you'd rather not say, but it's worth at least asking in case you were open enough to say. Are there no elements in whichever party you voted for that you wish would take their voice elsewhere? Obviously I know some of the people that voted Brexit were racist. And so were some of the people that voted for the Labour and Conservative party at the last election (neither of which I voted for). But Britain is nothing like as racist as it once was. I went to football matches in the 80s (and saw banana skins thrown at players at places like Carrot Road), but compare those days to what we have now. Things have moved on massively for the better, surely you can acknowledge that? There's still work to be done but there has been massive progress in the last generation or so.
Sadly referendums always cause division down some sort of lines. But it's time we looked to heal wounds rather than constantly peeling off the old scabs. Brexit is old news now, what's done is done. Covid-19 is the only horror show in town at present. Brexit is a mere sideshow for now. |
They don't like rational arguments against the EU on here...it rattles the contended feeling of smug self righteousness. Keeping the focus on racism and passports is much more comfortable ground. The Euro was the beginning of the end. Create a huge statist institution and it will always look for new work to do.....aka over reach. |  |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 07:55 - Apr 20 with 546 views | Mullet |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 07:52 - Apr 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
They don't like rational arguments against the EU on here...it rattles the contended feeling of smug self righteousness. Keeping the focus on racism and passports is much more comfortable ground. The Euro was the beginning of the end. Create a huge statist institution and it will always look for new work to do.....aka over reach. |
That's not true at all is it? The fringe anti-capitalist stuff is never presented in that way either, or remotely popular in terms of Brexit support. | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:20 - Apr 20 with 484 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You overestimate the ability of the closed ad bigotted brexit mind to open to reality.
Interesting that the key reasons this vile government was so utterly unprepared for a virus that it knew was coming three months previously was its desire to honour the wish of the british people on Jan 31 (as voted for by 44% of them) | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:24 - Apr 20 with 483 views | BlueBadger |
Not everyone who voted 'leave' was xenophobic, true. Large numbers of them were stupid as an either/or thing as well. |  |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:25 - Apr 20 with 484 views | BlueBadger |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 23:18 - Apr 19 by midastouch |
And a picture paints a thousand words:
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Yes but the football is better now. | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:31 - Apr 20 with 477 views | r2d2 |
#leftiebumfestthreadno.... 6543876543901290 |  | | |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:35 - Apr 20 with 472 views | midastouch |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:20 - Apr 20 by ElephantintheRoom |
You overestimate the ability of the closed ad bigotted brexit mind to open to reality.
Interesting that the key reasons this vile government was so utterly unprepared for a virus that it knew was coming three months previously was its desire to honour the wish of the british people on Jan 31 (as voted for by 44% of them) |
That's a false argument because if the Remainer MPs hadn't of dragged their feet for so long trying to thwart the will of the people, Brexit would of been settled long ago.
I do agree though that the government has badly handled the coronavirus situation. Countries like Germany have really shown us up. But to try and blame all of that entirely on Brexit is ridiculous. If you are going to make that sort of gutter argument it can easily be countered by saying that the MPs that caused block after block in Parliament are to blame. Am I making that argument though? Of course not. Did they know at the time (while they were busy tying Theresa May up in knots in Parliament) that a global pandemic was waiting around the corner? Of course they didn't.
How about we try and look through the windscreen for a change instead of in the rear mirror? [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 9:38]
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:37 - Apr 20 with 464 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:24 - Apr 20 by BlueBadger |
Not everyone who voted 'leave' was xenophobic, true. Large numbers of them were stupid as an either/or thing as well. |
Stupid people voted Remain too! | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:42 - Apr 20 with 456 views | midastouch |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:37 - Apr 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Stupid people voted Remain too! |
Matt Hancock just for starters! :-) | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:47 - Apr 20 with 448 views | midastouch |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:25 - Apr 20 by BlueBadger |
Yes but the football is better now. |
To be fair that chart could just as easily say Ipswich Town FC in the top left hand corner (rather than Deutsche Bank). We've seen just as much of a terminal decline over the same period, at least it sure feels that way. Sad but true. :-( | |
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| I think there are many Brexit voters on 10:46 - Apr 20 with 395 views | longtimefan |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 09:24 - Apr 20 by BlueBadger |
Not everyone who voted 'leave' was xenophobic, true. Large numbers of them were stupid as an either/or thing as well. |
I voted against Brexit as I could never see how it could possibly be a success, but I must admit the constant chime by many, that people who did were either racist, xenophobic or stupid grates. I've no idea why, but UK head of my small EEA headed company (only 100 people in total worldwide) did, and he is married to a EU citizen, owns a second house in a EU country and is definitely not an idiot. Those characteristics may fit some, but to tar all with the same brush is also perhaps exhibiting one of those characteristics! | | | |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 10:52 - Apr 20 with 393 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I think there are many Brexit voters on 10:46 - Apr 20 by longtimefan |
I voted against Brexit as I could never see how it could possibly be a success, but I must admit the constant chime by many, that people who did were either racist, xenophobic or stupid grates. I've no idea why, but UK head of my small EEA headed company (only 100 people in total worldwide) did, and he is married to a EU citizen, owns a second house in a EU country and is definitely not an idiot. Those characteristics may fit some, but to tar all with the same brush is also perhaps exhibiting one of those characteristics! |
There seems to be a muddling of cause and effect. Of course not all people who voted leave are xenophobes, yet the Leave campaign was definitely fought on a xenophobia ticket. Easy to understand why people therefore all get tarred with the same brush, even if it will be unfair on some. |  |
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