| Wannabe Churchill out. 11:03 - May 12 with 1917 views | Girthyguy |
Sturgeon in. |  | | |  |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:19 - May 12 with 1372 views | Bloots |
….and I don't just mean the Wee Jimmy Krankie thing.
She said that they'd remain in lockdown "for a bit" which was outstandingly vague.
She rambled on about the "R" rate and was then asked what it actually was in Scotland, to which she replied "I don't know".
She's as clueless as the rest of the divs in charge. |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:23 - May 12 with 1367 views | Guthrum |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:19 - May 12 by Bloots |
….and I don't just mean the Wee Jimmy Krankie thing.
She said that they'd remain in lockdown "for a bit" which was outstandingly vague.
She rambled on about the "R" rate and was then asked what it actually was in Scotland, to which she replied "I don't know".
She's as clueless as the rest of the divs in charge. |
It's just her public persona is less bumbling than Johnson's. She projects "strong woman" rather than "waffling idiot". |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:27 - May 12 with 1342 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:23 - May 12 by Guthrum |
It's just her public persona is less bumbling than Johnson's. She projects "strong woman" rather than "waffling idiot". |
I think it's been the years of actively caring about Scotland and representing its citizens that is the clincher.
BoJo just flirts with those as part of the overall message. |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:29 - May 12 with 1328 views | Girthyguy |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:23 - May 12 by Guthrum |
It's just her public persona is less bumbling than Johnson's. She projects "strong woman" rather than "waffling idiot". |
Exactly this. | | | |
| Wannabe Churchill out. on 11:35 - May 12 with 1308 views | TractorWood |
I like her. Doesn't waffle, doesn't take any guff.
Bar the obsession with independence. |  |
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| Wannabe Churchill out. on 11:37 - May 12 with 1302 views | factual_blue |
She's no Sir Keir Starmer though. |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 12:32 - May 12 with 1254 views | Guthrum |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:27 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think it's been the years of actively caring about Scotland and representing its citizens that is the clincher.
BoJo just flirts with those as part of the overall message. |
Caring about Scotland and wanting the best for its people is a different matter. Which is why I limited it to 'public persona'.
Also, being a non-specialist, her grasp of the science may not be any greater than Johnson's. Tho as a former solicitor, she's probably better at analysing what's put in front of her. | |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:23 - May 12 with 1198 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 12:32 - May 12 by Guthrum |
Caring about Scotland and wanting the best for its people is a different matter. Which is why I limited it to 'public persona'.
Also, being a non-specialist, her grasp of the science may not be any greater than Johnson's. Tho as a former solicitor, she's probably better at analysing what's put in front of her. |
But that is her public persona. There's some dabbling with promoting well-being as a measure of economic success and environmental concerns internationally, but the issue of increased representation for Scotland and better lives for its citizens is pretty much the agenda every time she speaks.
Coronavirus is a crisis out of the ordinary but it fits much more into the context of who she is and what she normally talks about. For BoJo it's a stretch and it feels as if he's trying to find the right tone. | |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:38 - May 12 with 1168 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:27 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think it's been the years of actively caring about Scotland and representing its citizens that is the clincher.
BoJo just flirts with those as part of the overall message. |
"I think it's been the years of actively caring about Scotland and representing its citizens that is the clincher. "
Are you talking about the same Nicola Sturgeon who constantly uses Brexit as an excuse to promote her party’s own narrow-minded and divisive pursuit of independence. Even though it would likely create new trade barriers that threaten economic growth and ultimately leave the Scottish citizens less well off?.
Also not forgetting that Scottish Independence is not supported by the majority of the people she is supposed to represent.
Ms Sturgeon has blurred the lines between the interests of Scotland and the interests of her party — a bad habit of the SNP. [Post edited 12 May 2020 13:45]
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:38 - May 12 with 1167 views | giant_stow |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:27 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think it's been the years of actively caring about Scotland and representing its citizens that is the clincher.
BoJo just flirts with those as part of the overall message. |
aww! |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:53 - May 12 with 1151 views | WeWereZombies |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 12:32 - May 12 by Guthrum |
Caring about Scotland and wanting the best for its people is a different matter. Which is why I limited it to 'public persona'.
Also, being a non-specialist, her grasp of the science may not be any greater than Johnson's. Tho as a former solicitor, she's probably better at analysing what's put in front of her. |
I have in front of me at the moment an SNP leaflet from the last election detailing '184 ways we're improving everyday life'. Maybe it is 184 ways they are taking credit for all the hard work done in the Scottish NHS, teachers, housing associations, social services and so on, but it is the most impressive election flier I have ever seen. Doesn't mean I voted for them, or am likely to in future (unless is comes down to a binary choice between them and those Tory scoundrels) but the attention to detail was in stark contrast to other parties craven point scoring.
If you listen to Sturgeon in the weekly questions to the First Minister from Holyrood she shoots from the hip but with remarkable accuracy. The other point to bear in mind is that Holyrood still has quite limited powers so all this positive work (or spin as the case may be) is achieved with a fair amount of being hidebound by Westminster. |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:55 - May 12 with 1142 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:38 - May 12 by Enigma_Blue |
"I think it's been the years of actively caring about Scotland and representing its citizens that is the clincher. "
Are you talking about the same Nicola Sturgeon who constantly uses Brexit as an excuse to promote her party’s own narrow-minded and divisive pursuit of independence. Even though it would likely create new trade barriers that threaten economic growth and ultimately leave the Scottish citizens less well off?.
Also not forgetting that Scottish Independence is not supported by the majority of the people she is supposed to represent.
Ms Sturgeon has blurred the lines between the interests of Scotland and the interests of her party — a bad habit of the SNP. [Post edited 12 May 2020 13:45]
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You've made it about Independence. That's a separate matter that happens to overlap. Ditto Brexit.
There's also the running of Scotland and dealing with the day-to-day reality of being a region in a United Kingdom with far too much centralised, party-political navel-gazing to properly represent its citizens. We can address it in those terms alone.
And btw the Yes to independence and yes to having another referendum are currently edging it. I'm sure the Tory government's handling of the pandemic, its aftermath and joy of joys Brexit will push even more that way. [Post edited 12 May 2020 13:56]
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:00 - May 12 with 1134 views | Guthrum |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:23 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
But that is her public persona. There's some dabbling with promoting well-being as a measure of economic success and environmental concerns internationally, but the issue of increased representation for Scotland and better lives for its citizens is pretty much the agenda every time she speaks.
Coronavirus is a crisis out of the ordinary but it fits much more into the context of who she is and what she normally talks about. For BoJo it's a stretch and it feels as if he's trying to find the right tone. |
Presentational style might have been a better way to phrase what I was saying.
I think the style Johnson has decided is appropriate - Churchillian rhetoric - is not one he's capable of pulling off successfully. The speech on Sunday was too forced and blustery. Churchill's delivery was more of a sing-song, languid drawl, it never sounded like he was trying to force his words out. Perhaps the fact Sir Winston had experience of giving orders to troops and public speaking in the era before electrically-assisted PA helped his ability to project.
Also, in his great set-piece speeches Churchill didn't waffle. The language may be more flowery than we're used to nowadays, but the words were carefully chosen (he used good speechwriters and was not above pinching bits from statesmen of the past*).
* The 'blood, sweat and tears' speech was almost certainly based upon one delivered by Giuseppe Garibaldi during the 1849 siege of Rome. | |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:03 - May 12 with 1126 views | Guthrum |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:53 - May 12 by WeWereZombies |
I have in front of me at the moment an SNP leaflet from the last election detailing '184 ways we're improving everyday life'. Maybe it is 184 ways they are taking credit for all the hard work done in the Scottish NHS, teachers, housing associations, social services and so on, but it is the most impressive election flier I have ever seen. Doesn't mean I voted for them, or am likely to in future (unless is comes down to a binary choice between them and those Tory scoundrels) but the attention to detail was in stark contrast to other parties craven point scoring.
If you listen to Sturgeon in the weekly questions to the First Minister from Holyrood she shoots from the hip but with remarkable accuracy. The other point to bear in mind is that Holyrood still has quite limited powers so all this positive work (or spin as the case may be) is achieved with a fair amount of being hidebound by Westminster. |
Which was probably why, when Labour dropped the ball in Scotland, the SNP were able to capitalise so effectively. | |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:05 - May 12 with 1124 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 11:27 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think it's been the years of actively caring about Scotland and representing its citizens that is the clincher.
BoJo just flirts with those as part of the overall message. |
She's been very impressive throughout all of this.
I disagree with her politics but there is no doubt she has always spoken with clarity and put the interests of the people of her country first. |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:10 - May 12 with 1116 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:00 - May 12 by Guthrum |
Presentational style might have been a better way to phrase what I was saying.
I think the style Johnson has decided is appropriate - Churchillian rhetoric - is not one he's capable of pulling off successfully. The speech on Sunday was too forced and blustery. Churchill's delivery was more of a sing-song, languid drawl, it never sounded like he was trying to force his words out. Perhaps the fact Sir Winston had experience of giving orders to troops and public speaking in the era before electrically-assisted PA helped his ability to project.
Also, in his great set-piece speeches Churchill didn't waffle. The language may be more flowery than we're used to nowadays, but the words were carefully chosen (he used good speechwriters and was not above pinching bits from statesmen of the past*).
* The 'blood, sweat and tears' speech was almost certainly based upon one delivered by Giuseppe Garibaldi during the 1849 siege of Rome. |
I think his problem is that his special sauce is oratory with few facts and certainly very little detail. And tone-wise he just doesn't have the gravitas of a Churchill either.
Nevertheless, it's almost exactly the opposite of what is needed when informing citizens and managing a country's response to a major global crisis.
He's always been the wrong man, at the wrong time and the wrong place. But now instead of that being politics and somehow funny, it actually matters. | |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:17 - May 12 with 1097 views | Radlett_blue |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 13:55 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
You've made it about Independence. That's a separate matter that happens to overlap. Ditto Brexit.
There's also the running of Scotland and dealing with the day-to-day reality of being a region in a United Kingdom with far too much centralised, party-political navel-gazing to properly represent its citizens. We can address it in those terms alone.
And btw the Yes to independence and yes to having another referendum are currently edging it. I'm sure the Tory government's handling of the pandemic, its aftermath and joy of joys Brexit will push even more that way. [Post edited 12 May 2020 13:56]
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My understanding is that many Scots don't think the SNP has done a good job of running Scotland, if you believe historic polls. They also received a reduced % of the vote at the last Scottish election. Obviously, they gained a the last General election, but that was largely down to Brexit.
Sturgeon is a very good presenter, although that's not the be all and end all of being effective in government.
The Scots can have another vote on independence as far as I'm concerned & I think many English would be glad to see the back of them & the ever-increasing English subsidy of Scotland. |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 15:06 - May 12 with 1049 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:17 - May 12 by Radlett_blue |
My understanding is that many Scots don't think the SNP has done a good job of running Scotland, if you believe historic polls. They also received a reduced % of the vote at the last Scottish election. Obviously, they gained a the last General election, but that was largely down to Brexit.
Sturgeon is a very good presenter, although that's not the be all and end all of being effective in government.
The Scots can have another vote on independence as far as I'm concerned & I think many English would be glad to see the back of them & the ever-increasing English subsidy of Scotland. |
All regions of the UK are effectively subsidised by London to a massive degree. But that becomes more and more about cash support the further you move away from the physical proximity.
So, I think that centralization and the subsequent level of dependence and subsidy is wrong. Especially when you see other similar-sized countries like Denmark have almost double the GDP of Scotland and a much better standard of living - despite historically having much less power and influence not to mention nothing like the same natural resources nowadays. But over the last 50 years Denmark and other countries have caught up and gone past because they've been focused on the growth of the economy and development of society.
We've been too focused on the stock exchange and wealth creation which aren't the same thing, and create more inequalities than they reduce.
You'll always get people disagreeing with the government at the time but there's no indication that anyone sees a better option than the SNP. The rest is split between the SNP-supporting Greens and the shambles of Labour, LibDems and the Tories that are isolated on their own. I can't even see a LibDem/Tory alliance being a thing North of the border even if they had the MSPs collectively. So that's largely academic.
But what the Scottish government is or isn't needs to be put in its rightful context. The SNP have to govern according to the underlying conditions that are set out by the UK national government and Scotland's own responsibilities and liabilities as part of the UK. Despite being devolved it's not a sovereign government that can take a completely different approach to its economic, health and social development. For example by opting out of sizeable defence spending or borrowing money to invest in infrastructure and jobs rather than bailing out banks.
In that respect, Sturgeon and the Scottish government is in the same position as the other regions with their devolved assemblies and local/regional spending that's been cut over the years - having to play the cards that are dealt them. Whether people agree or disagree with how those cards are played is fair enough but unless you can do more to improve the cards the results still won't be satisfactory for many in Scotland and probably not the government itself either.
Just to add - I'm a regionalist more than a nationalist. If the UK was a fairer, less unbalanced country with more emphasis on developing and growing the whole country without leaving people and communities behind then there would be no need for Independence at all. But it isn't and it's unfortunately showing every sign of being less and less interested in that. They can't even get the Northern Powerhouse off the ground in any meaningful sense and HS2 as a plan to re-connect with the North is just ridiculously weak - in scope, timescale and actually consolidating wealth in the South rather than redistributing it. [Post edited 12 May 2020 15:07]
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 15:23 - May 12 with 1017 views | Darth_Koont |
I hadn't read that before but yes, very good.
New Labour had 13 years to show what it could do for Scotland and other regions and it largely blew it - by turning towards Westminster and the party political bubble rather than looking outwards at the people who they needed to represent.
It's not going to recover those votes and MPs in Scotland any time soon but I suggest Starmer starts a more regional focus that might at least get some of the North back. Then there may be something to build on in Scotland after that. | |
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| Wannabe Churchill out. on 15:49 - May 12 with 988 views | BlueBadger |
Ah now, Boris IS like Churchill. The Churchill who planned and ordered Gallipoli. |  |
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 16:28 - May 12 with 942 views | Guthrum |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 14:10 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think his problem is that his special sauce is oratory with few facts and certainly very little detail. And tone-wise he just doesn't have the gravitas of a Churchill either.
Nevertheless, it's almost exactly the opposite of what is needed when informing citizens and managing a country's response to a major global crisis.
He's always been the wrong man, at the wrong time and the wrong place. But now instead of that being politics and somehow funny, it actually matters. |
I feel less sympathy for him than I do Chamberlain, who might have been a good Prime Minister (domestic policy, social and economic reform), if the Hitler crises had not come along. Johnson has thrust himself into power through ambition, without even that sort of agenda. | |
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| Wannabe Churchill out. on 16:49 - May 12 with 920 views | Ryorry |
She doesn't seem exactly universally popular even in her own country -
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| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 16:52 - May 12 with 917 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sturgeon was funny yesterday.... on 16:28 - May 12 by Guthrum |
I feel less sympathy for him than I do Chamberlain, who might have been a good Prime Minister (domestic policy, social and economic reform), if the Hitler crises had not come along. Johnson has thrust himself into power through ambition, without even that sort of agenda. |
Agreed.
The worst thing is that Johnson's cabinet looks just as ambitious, talentless and ultimately as useless as Johnson himself.
He can be a bumbling figurehead for the state but not sure it should be pushed through all the departments where an attention to detail is even more critical. | |
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| Wannabe Churchill out. on 18:18 - May 12 with 867 views | solemio |
Apart from all the obvious reasons why comparing Johnson to Churchill is totally ludicrous, this one always makes me smile:
Johnson went to Eton, Churchill went to Harrow. | | | |
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