| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? 13:13 - Sep 23 with 4033 views | ghostofescobar |
Most clubs lose huge amounts even with crowds, but with no/little fan derived income, what happens? I can't see how a large number of clubs won't go to the wall. Surely this brings into play a "big" club or clubs going out of business? Or am I missing something? I'm not sure why there hasn't been more noise around this issue. Also, makes the salary cap seem a good idea now! |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:05 - Sep 23 with 1872 views | itfcjoe |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 15:58 - Sep 23 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Now the salary cap is agreed (thankfully) you are probably right.
Although even that allows c.£100k per year on average, and there is plenty of downwards movement available there if a clubs survival relied on it. |
Even before the salary cap most clubs weren't spending anywhere near it on wages - players in the 4th tier would generally be better off going semi-pro and getting a full time job even now.
Without fans, these clubs are barely going to be able to afford to pay a living wage of £400 a week or so |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:08 - Sep 23 with 1865 views | Metal_Hacker |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:05 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
Even before the salary cap most clubs weren't spending anywhere near it on wages - players in the 4th tier would generally be better off going semi-pro and getting a full time job even now.
Without fans, these clubs are barely going to be able to afford to pay a living wage of £400 a week or so |
Think I suggested this the other day and it's not ground breaking. This will be the start of a German type league structure .With the number of clubs that will go to the wall , we'll perhaps have enough teams (just) to make 3 professional leagues and the rest will be exactly as Joe states, semi-pro |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:10 - Sep 23 with 1859 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:05 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
Even before the salary cap most clubs weren't spending anywhere near it on wages - players in the 4th tier would generally be better off going semi-pro and getting a full time job even now.
Without fans, these clubs are barely going to be able to afford to pay a living wage of £400 a week or so |
I agree, and on that basis L1 and L2 combined could conceivably survive a whole year on the back of c.£50m support from the Govt / FA / Premier League.
The Championship is another story. |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 with 1855 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:08 - Sep 23 by Metal_Hacker |
Think I suggested this the other day and it's not ground breaking. This will be the start of a German type league structure .With the number of clubs that will go to the wall , we'll perhaps have enough teams (just) to make 3 professional leagues and the rest will be exactly as Joe states, semi-pro |
Indeed, and maybe thats been needed anyway.
I've wondered for a while where the next generation of fans will come from to support lower league clubs.
Kids rarely have any interest in clubs outside the Prem, unless they are PSG and Barca! | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 with 1855 views | itfcjoe |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:08 - Sep 23 by Metal_Hacker |
Think I suggested this the other day and it's not ground breaking. This will be the start of a German type league structure .With the number of clubs that will go to the wall , we'll perhaps have enough teams (just) to make 3 professional leagues and the rest will be exactly as Joe states, semi-pro |
Seems OTT for a temporary problem which Covid is though - Germany is just so much bigger geographically that it makes more sense there. | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 with 1854 views | itfcjoe |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Indeed, and maybe thats been needed anyway.
I've wondered for a while where the next generation of fans will come from to support lower league clubs.
Kids rarely have any interest in clubs outside the Prem, unless they are PSG and Barca! |
Bad parenting to blame for that | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:15 - Sep 23 with 1847 views | homer_123 |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
Seems OTT for a temporary problem which Covid is though - Germany is just so much bigger geographically that it makes more sense there. |
'...temporary problem which Covid is though...'
Joe - we know that the Virus is here to stay - what if the Vaccines don't work? Either way - we are still at a point where a return to 'normal' is getting more and more unlikely. |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:16 - Sep 23 with 1842 views | Metal_Hacker |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
Seems OTT for a temporary problem which Covid is though - Germany is just so much bigger geographically that it makes more sense there. |
I wouldn't describe Covid as temporary to be fair but I'll take your point
Ref Germany being larger again fair point BUT if it means saving some sort of structure to continue with a recognised professional game that is worthy of maintaining then I'd accept any OTT suggestion | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:17 - Sep 23 with 1836 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
Bad parenting to blame for that |
My lad wears his ITFC kit on fathers day and my birthday only!
For the rest of the year he's much happier in his Man City kits.
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:19 - Sep 23 with 1833 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:15 - Sep 23 by homer_123 |
'...temporary problem which Covid is though...'
Joe - we know that the Virus is here to stay - what if the Vaccines don't work? Either way - we are still at a point where a return to 'normal' is getting more and more unlikely. |
...for the love of god, can we please not get into all the 'what ifs'. | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:21 - Sep 23 with 1832 views | hype313 |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:12 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
Bad parenting to blame for that |
To be fair I remember walking around Town circa 94 when Blackburn won the league and seeing a plethora of Blackburn shirts being worn by kids, it's not a new thing this glory seeking we see.
Most of the kids at my school supported liverpool during the 80's, we then saw loads of Utd fans come out of the closet in the 90's, then suddenly Chelsea shirts were everywhere post Abramovich, then you couldn't walk down Tavern street without seeing hundreds of kids in City shirts, suddenly Liverpool are back in fashion, wonder why... |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:28 - Sep 23 with 1813 views | Steve_M |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:21 - Sep 23 by hype313 |
To be fair I remember walking around Town circa 94 when Blackburn won the league and seeing a plethora of Blackburn shirts being worn by kids, it's not a new thing this glory seeking we see.
Most of the kids at my school supported liverpool during the 80's, we then saw loads of Utd fans come out of the closet in the 90's, then suddenly Chelsea shirts were everywhere post Abramovich, then you couldn't walk down Tavern street without seeing hundreds of kids in City shirts, suddenly Liverpool are back in fashion, wonder why... |
There will always be some, although there weren't many in Ipswich in the late 90s when we were winning more matches than nearly any team in the country. |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:32 - Sep 23 with 1797 views | itfcjoe |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:16 - Sep 23 by Metal_Hacker |
I wouldn't describe Covid as temporary to be fair but I'll take your point
Ref Germany being larger again fair point BUT if it means saving some sort of structure to continue with a recognised professional game that is worthy of maintaining then I'd accept any OTT suggestion |
I think the pyramid we have here is the finest in the world, it's not perfect, but you still find we are getting more and more pro clubs in the 5th (and even 6th) tier and in normal circumstances these clubs can be sustained - think cutting down to 3 leagues is baby out with the bathwater | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:35 - Sep 23 with 1792 views | itfcjoe |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:21 - Sep 23 by hype313 |
To be fair I remember walking around Town circa 94 when Blackburn won the league and seeing a plethora of Blackburn shirts being worn by kids, it's not a new thing this glory seeking we see.
Most of the kids at my school supported liverpool during the 80's, we then saw loads of Utd fans come out of the closet in the 90's, then suddenly Chelsea shirts were everywhere post Abramovich, then you couldn't walk down Tavern street without seeing hundreds of kids in City shirts, suddenly Liverpool are back in fashion, wonder why... |
My next door neighbours, 3 brothers, supported Blackburn, Newcastle and Arsenal....I wonder if they still all do!
I think it has got a lot worse with so much more on the TV, and Ipswich being rubbish for ages - hopefully we'll get good over the next few years and I won't have to worry about mine defecting
My mate lives in Singapore, big family of West Ham fans, he's now an ex-ST holder, his Dad and Bro still are and he's got his 5-6 year old a Man City shirt now as he wanted one....when middling PL teams are no longer good enough that''s a worry! | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:39 - Sep 23 with 1779 views | hype313 |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:35 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
My next door neighbours, 3 brothers, supported Blackburn, Newcastle and Arsenal....I wonder if they still all do!
I think it has got a lot worse with so much more on the TV, and Ipswich being rubbish for ages - hopefully we'll get good over the next few years and I won't have to worry about mine defecting
My mate lives in Singapore, big family of West Ham fans, he's now an ex-ST holder, his Dad and Bro still are and he's got his 5-6 year old a Man City shirt now as he wanted one....when middling PL teams are no longer good enough that''s a worry! |
That's a surprise given that out of all the clubs West Ham seem to be the one's that carry on the tradition, most Hammers I know are quite proud of the fact that they are s**t!
As long as the WC win is still in peoples memory, they just dine out on the fact that they essentially won it. | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:50 - Sep 23 with 1754 views | Metal_Hacker |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 16:32 - Sep 23 by itfcjoe |
I think the pyramid we have here is the finest in the world, it's not perfect, but you still find we are getting more and more pro clubs in the 5th (and even 6th) tier and in normal circumstances these clubs can be sustained - think cutting down to 3 leagues is baby out with the bathwater |
I''m not suggesting cutting the "pyramid" to 3 leagues immediately I'm merely suggesting if this mess continues which it is for the foreseeable future ,we'll end up like it | |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 18:38 - Sep 23 with 1722 views | Guthrum |
It'll go back to being more like it was in the '60s and '70s, where wages and other costs were fairly low. If players don't like it, where are they going to go?
Clubs which collapse will be replaced by phoenix successors. The rules on breaking continuity of tradition and honours will become disregarded (because so many are in the same boat). |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 20:31 - Sep 23 with 1667 views | marcus1642 |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 13:41 - Sep 23 by BlueBadger |
Is it because the government are corrupt, incompetent self-interested sociopathic See You Next Tuesdays? |
......And the Labour party still couldn't beat them in the general election. |  | | |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 20:44 - Sep 23 with 1658 views | Ely_Blue |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 13:51 - Sep 23 by homer_123 |
As I have posted before.
We are moving towards a point where we, not just football, may have to adapt. Things may never be the same, or even in some instance remotely similar, again and we may have to accept that.
Just taking football as an example. Even allowing 1,000 fans back into grounds, this actually makes their income worse in many situations. By that I mean, 1,000 fans aren't paying at the door as they are likely season ticket holders, so, costs to accommodate them go up significantly without additional income (and this is just the short term).
Many Rugby clubs are geared towards having at least 10,000 fans in each match to break even.
So, the current model of football won't work - it's going to have to change in all likelihood. Clubs and fans are going to have to approach it differently, wages and costs are going to have to come down significantly until new revenue streams are devised for clubs. |
If you allow your ST holders back in you are protecting that revenue that you already have.
By not allowing them in of course you are going to lose money as eventually you will be compelled to reimburse those people as clubs did last season.
Just because there is no cash changing hands to allow those people in doesn’t mean clubs don’t make any money |  |
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| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 20:53 - Sep 23 with 1647 views | BtreeBlueBlood |
| How on earth are most clubs below the Prem going to survive? on 13:41 - Sep 23 by southnorfolkblue |
I wonder what will happen to our division. It didn’t finish last season because the majority of clubs said that they couldn’t afford to carry on playing.
PPG anyone.... |
A win this weekend is critical!🤣 [Post edited 23 Sep 2020 21:14]
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