| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. 10:23 - Oct 29 with 4580 views | solomon |
Anti-semitism is unacceptable full stop. |  | | |  |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:38 - Oct 29 with 686 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:15 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
so the ehrc finds that suggesting that complaints of antisemitism were fake or smears was in itself unlawful harassment under the equality act 2010, but on you and on you go. |
If someone said ALL complaints of antisemitism were smears then that would be harassment. I also see no need to offend people when they point out genuine cases by saying “Yeah but what about the smears”.
Denying there’s also been a smear campaign with a lot of fake and exaggerated complaints is offensive too. It offends any sense of decency, honesty and transparency in public life which is why I take a very dim view of those who do it. |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:44 - Oct 29 with 664 views | StokieBlue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:38 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
If someone said ALL complaints of antisemitism were smears then that would be harassment. I also see no need to offend people when they point out genuine cases by saying “Yeah but what about the smears”.
Denying there’s also been a smear campaign with a lot of fake and exaggerated complaints is offensive too. It offends any sense of decency, honesty and transparency in public life which is why I take a very dim view of those who do it. |
Do you know how they selected the 70 cases which they investigated more thoroughly? I honestly don't know hence the question.
However, I'd say 34% of those having issues is quite a problem and saying it is exaggerated isn't ideal.
SB |  | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:48 - Oct 29 with 652 views | lowhouseblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:38 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
If someone said ALL complaints of antisemitism were smears then that would be harassment. I also see no need to offend people when they point out genuine cases by saying “Yeah but what about the smears”.
Denying there’s also been a smear campaign with a lot of fake and exaggerated complaints is offensive too. It offends any sense of decency, honesty and transparency in public life which is why I take a very dim view of those who do it. |
you've spent years on here trying to dismiss and downplay just about every case that's arisen, and you've defended just about anyone's who's been accused. you've posted that just about everything has been a 'scummy smear'. you've suffered from a form of anti-semitism dismissal tourettes. and you think you can talk about decency and honesty. jeez. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:48 - Oct 29 with 650 views | Ryorry |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:34 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
“I’m going to make up stuff I wish Darth had said”.
No, I said they whitewashed the evidence from Labour leaks. As a regulatory body that doesn’t ultimately matter as its brief is to point out failings of outcome in the complaints process, of course. But they sidestepped how the Labour Party and the leadership can manage complaints effectively while fighting a factional war run by many who were at the heart of the complaints process.
Again won’t be an issue if in accepting Labour’s culpability Starmer and the Forde Inquiry get to the bottom of what happened here. But now there’s no reason not to sweep it under the rug as an independent body has ducked it totally. |
"But they sidestepped how the Labour Party and the leadership can manage complaints effectively while fighting a factional war run by many who were at the heart of the complaints process."
"... But now there’s no reason not to sweep it under the rug as an independent body has ducked it totally."
Err - you what?? |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:50 - Oct 29 with 647 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:44 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue |
Do you know how they selected the 70 cases which they investigated more thoroughly? I honestly don't know hence the question.
However, I'd say 34% of those having issues is quite a problem and saying it is exaggerated isn't ideal.
SB |
I think you’re comparing apples with oranges there.
I’m guessing that the 70 complaints are mostly legitimate cases as those are the ones that would illustrate the process. The EHRC make no reference to the total number of complaints the Labour Party received that I saw, nor how many of those actually involved Labour members and officials or were in fact antisemitic. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:54 - Oct 29 with 642 views | Ryorry |
Oh, and I forgot to say - that was an absolutely brilliant statement from KS, genuinely statesmanlike and I think/hope, unifying.
Hope he comes out with many more such on policy & planning in due course. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:04 - Oct 29 with 623 views | bournemouthblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:27 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
two from a sample of all of the complaints. isn't 2 acts of unlawful harassment breaching the equalities act enough? or are just a couple unlawful acts just bad luck. |
Nope but people are acting like this was in the hundreds
One of those cases was to speed up Ken Livingstone's suspension
It was often suggested he wasn't doing enough on the matter, you can't have it both ways surely?
Did Livingstone sue the Labour Party over this, I can't remember? |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:20 - Oct 29 with 601 views | Beckets |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:54 - Oct 29 by Ryorry |
Oh, and I forgot to say - that was an absolutely brilliant statement from KS, genuinely statesmanlike and I think/hope, unifying.
Hope he comes out with many more such on policy & planning in due course. |
KS has done the very thing the Tories least wanted him to do by suspending Corbyn. They must have hoped to deflect attention from their own rank incompetence for a few days on this issue. |  | | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:23 - Oct 29 with 589 views | Ryorry |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:20 - Oct 29 by Beckets |
KS has done the very thing the Tories least wanted him to do by suspending Corbyn. They must have hoped to deflect attention from their own rank incompetence for a few days on this issue. |
Good point 👠| |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:23 - Oct 29 with 586 views | BloomBlue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:04 - Oct 29 by bournemouthblue |
Nope but people are acting like this was in the hundreds
One of those cases was to speed up Ken Livingstone's suspension
It was often suggested he wasn't doing enough on the matter, you can't have it both ways surely?
Did Livingstone sue the Labour Party over this, I can't remember? |
No because labour never ever got round to kicking him out apparently they have a 'speedy' process that couldn't even reach a conclusion after 3 years, f*ck me how long would a slow process take?
The EHRC finding against Livingstone was of unlawful harassment. But labour after 3 years (4 years now) still couldn't reach a conclusion
The EHRC also said the 'These cases were only the tip of the iceberg.' |  | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:29 - Oct 29 with 565 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 11:16 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue |
33.8% of the cases they investigated were found to have issues as per the quote above.
They only investigated 70 of the complaints - if you scale that for all the complaints it starts to look pretty bad. In the press conference they have also highlighted obstruction and lack of cooperation from Labour during the investigation.
At least it's done now, Labour can make their decisions on how to react and everyone can move on to trying to sort out C19 and holding the Tories to account.
SB |
So only a 200 per cent overstatement of the case? |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:34 - Oct 29 with 556 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:48 - Oct 29 by Ryorry |
"But they sidestepped how the Labour Party and the leadership can manage complaints effectively while fighting a factional war run by many who were at the heart of the complaints process."
"... But now there’s no reason not to sweep it under the rug as an independent body has ducked it totally."
Err - you what?? |
You heard. By not addressing the evidence of the Labour leaks (that would also be integral to people like Corbin and Murphy’s submissions to the report) they’ve sidestepped the factionalism that is at the heart of the complaints process and an explanation of why it performed so poorly even after the Chakrabarti report.
Now the Forde inquiry will do the same and will address the circumstances of the leaking of an unredacted report (which of course was very bad) and it’ll focus on the misogyny and anti-BAME racism that was expressed by Labour staffers. But as they haven’t been directed to it by the EHRC, I’ll bet you we won’t see any discussion about how many of those same Labour staffers failed the Jewish community by not addressing complaints. Labour have already paid some of them off FFS on this very point.
But this is just what our politicians, media and the institutions set up to protect our democracy serve up on a daily basis so I’m not surprised in the least. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:45 - Oct 29 with 539 views | Ryorry |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:34 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
You heard. By not addressing the evidence of the Labour leaks (that would also be integral to people like Corbin and Murphy’s submissions to the report) they’ve sidestepped the factionalism that is at the heart of the complaints process and an explanation of why it performed so poorly even after the Chakrabarti report.
Now the Forde inquiry will do the same and will address the circumstances of the leaking of an unredacted report (which of course was very bad) and it’ll focus on the misogyny and anti-BAME racism that was expressed by Labour staffers. But as they haven’t been directed to it by the EHRC, I’ll bet you we won’t see any discussion about how many of those same Labour staffers failed the Jewish community by not addressing complaints. Labour have already paid some of them off FFS on this very point.
But this is just what our politicians, media and the institutions set up to protect our democracy serve up on a daily basis so I’m not surprised in the least. |
I heard, I simply didn't understand what on earth you meant, particularly your apparent implication that it'd be right for eveything to now be swept under the carpet.
Still don't understand your further explanation, which just seems more sidestepping to me.
You probably don't care, but it'd look a lot better if you just stuck your hand up & admitted you got some things wrong. Guessing you won't because you probably can't even see it yourself, you're too entrenched - that's the problem. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:47 - Oct 29 with 533 views | ElderGrizzly |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:29 - Oct 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So only a 200 per cent overstatement of the case? |
These are the words of the main investigator. If Corbyn was still leader he would have been sacked.
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 15:14 - Oct 29 with 518 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:45 - Oct 29 by Ryorry |
I heard, I simply didn't understand what on earth you meant, particularly your apparent implication that it'd be right for eveything to now be swept under the carpet.
Still don't understand your further explanation, which just seems more sidestepping to me.
You probably don't care, but it'd look a lot better if you just stuck your hand up & admitted you got some things wrong. Guessing you won't because you probably can't even see it yourself, you're too entrenched - that's the problem. |
I think you’re getting your reports mixed up. I’m talking about how the EHRC report pre-emptively absolves the Forde inquiry into the Labour leaks from digging into why the complaints process was particularly dysfunctional. And who was to blame.
I’m definitely not saying it would be right to sweep the Labour leaks under the carpet. But that’s what increasingly looks like happening. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 16:55 - Oct 29 with 472 views | monytowbray |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 14:23 - Oct 29 by Ryorry |
Good point 👠|
Nah, they want Kier gone too. Or at least suggest it.
I believe this is using racism to score political points, as one poster used to often accuse everyone else.
Odd no one's even fussed the Tories are publicly pushing Nazi conspiracy theories though. That's the issue with racism, it's f*cking everywhere and it's much more prominent in the right wing but LOOK OVER THERE!
Case in point: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-antisemitism-political-parties
Already had to read Bloom's p1ss poor take on leftist racism today, god knows where he invented that one.
Still, I find it baffling somehow a prominent fighter of racism for decades is somehow a secret anti-semite. No one's actually answered that post yet either. Can anyone explain this to me as I'm missing the link. |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:17 - Oct 29 with 452 views | BloomBlue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 16:55 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Nah, they want Kier gone too. Or at least suggest it.
I believe this is using racism to score political points, as one poster used to often accuse everyone else.
Odd no one's even fussed the Tories are publicly pushing Nazi conspiracy theories though. That's the issue with racism, it's f*cking everywhere and it's much more prominent in the right wing but LOOK OVER THERE!
Case in point: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-antisemitism-political-parties
Already had to read Bloom's p1ss poor take on leftist racism today, god knows where he invented that one.
Still, I find it baffling somehow a prominent fighter of racism for decades is somehow a secret anti-semite. No one's actually answered that post yet either. Can anyone explain this to me as I'm missing the link. |
Please show where Corbyn has constantly been a prominent fighter of racism against Jewish people? | | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:22 - Oct 29 with 446 views | monytowbray |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:17 - Oct 29 by BloomBlue |
Please show where Corbyn has constantly been a prominent fighter of racism against Jewish people? |
So you’re saying he’s anti racist but also racist against Jewish people? How? | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:41 - Oct 29 with 426 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 16:55 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Nah, they want Kier gone too. Or at least suggest it.
I believe this is using racism to score political points, as one poster used to often accuse everyone else.
Odd no one's even fussed the Tories are publicly pushing Nazi conspiracy theories though. That's the issue with racism, it's f*cking everywhere and it's much more prominent in the right wing but LOOK OVER THERE!
Case in point: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-antisemitism-political-parties
Already had to read Bloom's p1ss poor take on leftist racism today, god knows where he invented that one.
Still, I find it baffling somehow a prominent fighter of racism for decades is somehow a secret anti-semite. No one's actually answered that post yet either. Can anyone explain this to me as I'm missing the link. |
I've got a bit of sympathy with Corbyn. It was a flaw that was thoroughly exploited politically; but it did receive proportionally far more attention than the equally heinous (and possibly more extensive) discrimination we've seen if full light from the Tories/UKIP/BP, etc. They even proudly displayed their racism on posters during the Brexit campaign FFS.
BUT it was a flaw nonetheless, as the EHRC report now makes clear, and one that's not acceptable and needs to be dealt with in its own right. Labour supporters of all types/sides need to realise that.
I think it's naive to think Starmer was a bedfellow of Corbyn's, so I expect the Tories are now peeing in the wind trying to smear KS. But you'd expect them to try, because Starmer is a threat. That's a good thing for Labour and they should embrace it, realise it for what it is, let the baggage go and rally behind him.
The antisemitism allegations have hindered Labour for years - through Starmer acting firmly and swiftly that could all go away, and the lost trust could be won back. Or Labour could keep fighting itself... |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:45 - Oct 29 with 421 views | monytowbray |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:41 - Oct 29 by Swansea_Blue |
I've got a bit of sympathy with Corbyn. It was a flaw that was thoroughly exploited politically; but it did receive proportionally far more attention than the equally heinous (and possibly more extensive) discrimination we've seen if full light from the Tories/UKIP/BP, etc. They even proudly displayed their racism on posters during the Brexit campaign FFS.
BUT it was a flaw nonetheless, as the EHRC report now makes clear, and one that's not acceptable and needs to be dealt with in its own right. Labour supporters of all types/sides need to realise that.
I think it's naive to think Starmer was a bedfellow of Corbyn's, so I expect the Tories are now peeing in the wind trying to smear KS. But you'd expect them to try, because Starmer is a threat. That's a good thing for Labour and they should embrace it, realise it for what it is, let the baggage go and rally behind him.
The antisemitism allegations have hindered Labour for years - through Starmer acting firmly and swiftly that could all go away, and the lost trust could be won back. Or Labour could keep fighting itself... |
You put it better than I could. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:47 - Oct 29 with 418 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:45 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
You put it better than I could. |
I don't know anything about it though, so don't listen to me  . | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 19:03 - Oct 29 with 390 views | Ryorry |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 16:55 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Nah, they want Kier gone too. Or at least suggest it.
I believe this is using racism to score political points, as one poster used to often accuse everyone else.
Odd no one's even fussed the Tories are publicly pushing Nazi conspiracy theories though. That's the issue with racism, it's f*cking everywhere and it's much more prominent in the right wing but LOOK OVER THERE!
Case in point: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-antisemitism-political-parties
Already had to read Bloom's p1ss poor take on leftist racism today, god knows where he invented that one.
Still, I find it baffling somehow a prominent fighter of racism for decades is somehow a secret anti-semite. No one's actually answered that post yet either. Can anyone explain this to me as I'm missing the link. |
Re your last para - I think the problem for the vast majority of ppl not actually in the LP was not that they thought JC an outright anti-Semite himself, but that he was not stamping down on it strongly enough often enough.
Instead he gave the impression of eternally shilly-shallying around weakly on the issue - remember the furore over the cartoon of wealthy bankers etc round the table? which he refused to condemn, at least initially, as anti-semitic, iirc. Just like his position on Brexit really. I do feel a wee bit sorry for him as Swansea said - ultimately he arrived at this situation because he was *generally* a weak leader.
He needed to come out early doors with the statement that KS did today, and follow that through with firm action within the LP. A real shame all round that he didn't - and as a human being right now, I suspect that he's gutted/quite embarrassed, which is saddening given his ideals throughout his life. I think he's quite conflicted at not being able to keep his passion for the Palestinian cause separate from the anti-Semitism issue, not least because so many people who discuss it seem unable to do that themselves! | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 19:22 - Oct 29 with 373 views | bournemouthblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 17:41 - Oct 29 by Swansea_Blue |
I've got a bit of sympathy with Corbyn. It was a flaw that was thoroughly exploited politically; but it did receive proportionally far more attention than the equally heinous (and possibly more extensive) discrimination we've seen if full light from the Tories/UKIP/BP, etc. They even proudly displayed their racism on posters during the Brexit campaign FFS.
BUT it was a flaw nonetheless, as the EHRC report now makes clear, and one that's not acceptable and needs to be dealt with in its own right. Labour supporters of all types/sides need to realise that.
I think it's naive to think Starmer was a bedfellow of Corbyn's, so I expect the Tories are now peeing in the wind trying to smear KS. But you'd expect them to try, because Starmer is a threat. That's a good thing for Labour and they should embrace it, realise it for what it is, let the baggage go and rally behind him.
The antisemitism allegations have hindered Labour for years - through Starmer acting firmly and swiftly that could all go away, and the lost trust could be won back. Or Labour could keep fighting itself... |
No one denies there aren't problems but you do have to question why the media are far less tigerous on other parties and characters
Had any other leader put out the kind of bobbins Boris has published, they wouldn't even be in the party, let alone their leader [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 19:23]
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