| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. 10:23 - Oct 29 with 4472 views | solomon |
Anti-semitism is unacceptable full stop. |  | | |  |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:14 - Oct 29 with 1280 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 11:49 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue |
Starmer has taken entirely the opposite position of JC:
“Those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem. Those who say it is exaggerated or factional are part of the problem.”
Hard to see how this doesn't develop into an internal war of the JC support base against the rest which is really not what we need right now - we need Labour focused on C19 and the Tories.
SB |
Those who say it isn't factional and exaggerated AS WELL are also part of the problem.
I think we're seeing here that the Forde Inquiry is likely to be an utter waste of space as a legitimate and objective investigation. |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:22 - Oct 29 with 1267 views | Steve_M |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:11 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
Nobody is saying antisemitism is acceptable. If they are they're antisemitic and beyond the pale.
Having read and skimmed as much as I can of the report, I think the EHRC report will underline how the complaints process wasn't up to scratch and needed improving. This was accepted by the leadership of the party and Jennie Formby in the past.
The reasons why the process wasn't working have been whitewashed by the EHRC. Fair enough if their brief is just to highlight failings in outcomes but I think they've massively ignored the context to leave blame hanging over the leadership. But they've failed to satisfactorily address the factional issues that led to complaints not being handled as well as the bombardment of complaints that some were working full-time to deliver. The comparison with sexual harassment cases and procedures would be relevant if there was anything like the same factional issues, interpretations of sexual harassment many of them trivial and the sheer volume of complaints to address.
All in all, it didn't tell me anything that wasn't already known if people could be bothered to look. But the confirmation of how the report frames it along the lines of the commonly accepted narrative is deeply disturbing. This plus the paying off of several of the "whistleblowers" gives me zero confidence in the Forde inquiry about what has actually been going on.
So yeah, it'll bring about change (and anything that resolves complaints and helps the victims of antisemitism is to be applauded), but if they don't fight the characterisation and don't use the Forde Inquiry to address what's been going on then I think this will also change a lot of people's view that the Labour Party can be trusted. |
"The bits I don't like have been whitewashed". Really? |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:23 - Oct 29 with 1262 views | Ryorry |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 11:49 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue |
Starmer has taken entirely the opposite position of JC:
“Those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem. Those who say it is exaggerated or factional are part of the problem.”
Hard to see how this doesn't develop into an internal war of the JC support base against the rest which is really not what we need right now - we need Labour focused on C19 and the Tories.
SB |
"Hard to see how this doesn't develop into an internal war of the JC support base against the rest which is really not what we need right now - we need Labour focused on C19 and the Tories."
The "internal war" has been going on continuously long before today - since the GE of Dec '19, and KS replacing JC as LP leader in fact - momentum supporters on social media every single day with their "it was all the msm/"ToryLite" labour supporters' fault for attacking JC"; and KS-bashing from the off. Lord help any labour supporter criticising them for focussing on the past instead of helping Labour move on to become a more effective opposition & planning to boot the Tories out - at best you're ignored. |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:27 - Oct 29 with 1252 views | Ryorry |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 10:35 - Oct 29 by BloomBlue |
So you think it's acceptable what the Labour party did because it was against Jewish people?
Interesting
Racism comes in different forms
'British Jews were made to feel increasingly wary – to such an extent that nearly half considered leaving the country. That this could have happened in a modern democracy shames Labour.. |
"'British Jews were made to feel increasingly wary – to such an extent that nearly half considered leaving the country. That this could have happened in a modern democracy shames Labour.. "
You (and/or that article) make it sound as though every Jewish person (or family) in the UK were asked. I know for a fact that they weren't. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:33 - Oct 29 with 1243 views | lowhouseblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:11 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
Nobody is saying antisemitism is acceptable. If they are they're antisemitic and beyond the pale.
Having read and skimmed as much as I can of the report, I think the EHRC report will underline how the complaints process wasn't up to scratch and needed improving. This was accepted by the leadership of the party and Jennie Formby in the past.
The reasons why the process wasn't working have been whitewashed by the EHRC. Fair enough if their brief is just to highlight failings in outcomes but I think they've massively ignored the context to leave blame hanging over the leadership. But they've failed to satisfactorily address the factional issues that led to complaints not being handled as well as the bombardment of complaints that some were working full-time to deliver. The comparison with sexual harassment cases and procedures would be relevant if there was anything like the same factional issues, interpretations of sexual harassment many of them trivial and the sheer volume of complaints to address.
All in all, it didn't tell me anything that wasn't already known if people could be bothered to look. But the confirmation of how the report frames it along the lines of the commonly accepted narrative is deeply disturbing. This plus the paying off of several of the "whistleblowers" gives me zero confidence in the Forde inquiry about what has actually been going on.
So yeah, it'll bring about change (and anything that resolves complaints and helps the victims of antisemitism is to be applauded), but if they don't fight the characterisation and don't use the Forde Inquiry to address what's been going on then I think this will also change a lot of people's view that the Labour Party can be trusted. |
ah, the poster who has regularly dismissed reports of anti-semitism as scummy fakes and smears. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:34 - Oct 29 with 1242 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:22 - Oct 29 by Steve_M |
"The bits I don't like have been whitewashed". Really? |
“I’m going to make up stuff I wish Darth had said”.
No, I said they whitewashed the evidence from Labour leaks. As a regulatory body that doesn’t ultimately matter as its brief is to point out failings of outcome in the complaints process, of course. But they sidestepped how the Labour Party and the leadership can manage complaints effectively while fighting a factional war run by many who were at the heart of the complaints process.
Again won’t be an issue if in accepting Labour’s culpability Starmer and the Forde Inquiry get to the bottom of what happened here. But now there’s no reason not to sweep it under the rug as an independent body has ducked it totally. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 12:38 - Oct 29 with 1234 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:33 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
ah, the poster who has regularly dismissed reports of anti-semitism as scummy fakes and smears. |
A lot of them, yes. I’ve also condemned antisemitism.
It’s pretty easy to do when you look at actual evidence rather than being fully engaged and invested in the smear campaign like you. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:44 - Oct 29 with 1212 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 11:14 - Oct 29 by tractordownsouth |
The contrast between Corbyn and Starmer's statements is stark. The man responsible couldn't even muster the word "sorry", yet the new leader is showing strength and empathy on the issue. |
Corbyn’s response is backed up by the evidence.
Starmer’s is backed up by a prevailing narrative that ignores most if not all of that evidence.
Ultimately, I firmly believe that both reject antisemitism but this is about so much more than antiracism. It’s massively political and geo-political too. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:48 - Oct 29 with 1202 views | monytowbray |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 11:56 - Oct 29 by BloomBlue |
Yes I do. The left for years have had a hatred of the Jewish people clearly you don't understand that or don't want to understand it. It's more a hatred of Israel but manifests itself in a hatred for the Jewish people.
Corbyn could have stopped much of this situation by standing up against Ken Livingstone and kicking him out of the Labour party immediately but he didn't
If Livingstone had made a similar type of comment about Black people he would have been rightly kicked out of the party immediately for breaking party rules. You even had that racist Karie Murphy talking about how speedily they dealt with cases.. three f*cking years, three f*cking years and still KL wasn't kicked out, how much f*cking time do you need, speedy????
Racism isn't selective
But what we'll see is the left talking about conspiracy theories to justify what Labour did and try and discredit the EHRC findings |
Honestly 90% of my social circle is the far left and I don’t know a single anti-Semite.
The ones I have encountered tend to be far right conspiracy theorists, can’t stand Labour, and believe things like Cultural Marxism and George Soros plots.
If anyone in my social circles was anti-Semitic in my social circles they’d be told and f*cked off away if they continued.
I know one person that has happened to, and it was someone who was on the fringe of the Ipswich Punk scene anyway and he wasn’t particularly trusted. He started sharing some rather unsavoury stuff after getting sucked into 4chan.
Sorry but this whole angle does not add up. |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:48 - Oct 29 with 1196 views | leitrimblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 10:27 - Oct 29 by BloomBlue |
It's disgusting and to think people support the Labour party
Racist scum
I presume Starmer will resign at 11am as he was part of the Leadership who as the report said "The equality body's analysis points to a culture within the party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent anti-Semitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it." |
Exactly Bloom, time to rally around Boris an keep the racists outta government  |  | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:50 - Oct 29 with 1180 views | 26_Paz |
Down voted by mistake, was trying to up vote ... can’t seem to change it! Apologies! |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:51 - Oct 29 with 1189 views | monytowbray |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:44 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
Corbyn’s response is backed up by the evidence.
Starmer’s is backed up by a prevailing narrative that ignores most if not all of that evidence.
Ultimately, I firmly believe that both reject antisemitism but this is about so much more than antiracism. It’s massively political and geo-political too. |
Was gonna say, those who claim he’s wrong to say some of it was politically motivated aren’t too practiced in facts and evidence.
But Corbyn’s done now and the report is there to act. Good.
Now do the Tories. We’ve got one anti-Semite on our own doorstep.
Oh fun, Tom Hunt is now spewing out anti-Semitic Nazi-born conspiracy theories by monytowbray 21 Oct 2020 14:07https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/tom-hunt-on-institutional-racism-1-6893720
Speaking in the Commons debate on Black History Month, Mr Hunt also criticised some leadership figures of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement for “straying into cultural Marxism”.
Think he knows what Cultural Marxism means?
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism
Cultural Marxism generally refers to one of two things:
First – extremely rarely in popular discourse – "cultural Marxism" (lower C, upper M) refers to a strain of critique of popular culture by the Frankfurt School, framing such culture as being imposed by a capitalist culture industry and consumed passively by the masses.
Second – in common usage in the wild – "Cultural Marxism" (both uppercase) is a common snarl word used to paint anyone with progressive tendencies as a secret Communist. The term alludes to a conspiracy theory in which sinister left-wingers have infiltrated media, academia, and science, and are engaged in a decades-long plot to undermine Western culture. Some variants of the conspiracy allege that basically all of modern social liberalism is, in fact, a Communist front group.
This conspiracy theory hinges on the idea that the Frankfurt School wasn't just an arcane strain of academic criticism.[note 1] Instead, the Frankfurt School was behind an ongoing Marxist plot to destroy the capitalist West from within, spreading its tentacles throughout academia and indoctrinating students to hate patriotism and freedom. Thus, rock'n'roll, 1960s counterculture, the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, homosexuality,[3] modern feminism, and, in general, all the "decay" in the West since the 1950s are allegedly products of the Frankfurt School.[4] It's also the work of the Jews.[5][6]
The conspiracist usage originated in Nazi Germany, where Kulturbolschewismus ("Cultural Bolshevism") was used to abuse political opponents. In particular, Jews purportedly were secretly orchestrating the spread of Communism (Jewish BolshevismWikipedia) as well as promoting sexual & gender permissiveness ("sexual Bolshevism").[7]
If anyone rants about "Cultural Marxists taking over culture!", feel free to remind them that they're spouting literal Nazi propaganda updated for the modern era.
What a lovely local MP we have.
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:55 - Oct 29 with 1161 views | 26_Paz |
Just seen Corbyn’s response. Absolutely disgraceful. Weasel of a man. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:00 - Oct 29 with 1147 views | BloomBlue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:48 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Honestly 90% of my social circle is the far left and I don’t know a single anti-Semite.
The ones I have encountered tend to be far right conspiracy theorists, can’t stand Labour, and believe things like Cultural Marxism and George Soros plots.
If anyone in my social circles was anti-Semitic in my social circles they’d be told and f*cked off away if they continued.
I know one person that has happened to, and it was someone who was on the fringe of the Ipswich Punk scene anyway and he wasn’t particularly trusted. He started sharing some rather unsavoury stuff after getting sucked into 4chan.
Sorry but this whole angle does not add up. |
Well good for you for telling them to f*ck off, hopefully more will do the same. |  | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:05 - Oct 29 with 1144 views | Darth_Koont |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 12:55 - Oct 29 by 26_Paz |
Just seen Corbyn’s response. Absolutely disgraceful. Weasel of a man. |
I can assure you he can defend himself on these points. The primary evidence is available if there’s anything specific you’re disagreeing with.
And he has every right to defend himself. On one hand he’s accused of not doing enough about the high-profile cases and now he’s seen as interfering when he was trying to get the complaints team to deal with Livingstone. Meanwhile Watson who made a big thing about asking to have complaints sent to him and outside the process isn’t even mentioned as an example.
Corbyn couldn’t win when bad faith actors (and readers) are willing to interpret action and inaction as equally wrong. | |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:09 - Oct 29 with 1131 views | solomon |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:05 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
I can assure you he can defend himself on these points. The primary evidence is available if there’s anything specific you’re disagreeing with.
And he has every right to defend himself. On one hand he’s accused of not doing enough about the high-profile cases and now he’s seen as interfering when he was trying to get the complaints team to deal with Livingstone. Meanwhile Watson who made a big thing about asking to have complaints sent to him and outside the process isn’t even mentioned as an example.
Corbyn couldn’t win when bad faith actors (and readers) are willing to interpret action and inaction as equally wrong. |
Now suspended from the party. | | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:10 - Oct 29 with 1126 views | StokieBlue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:09 - Oct 29 by solomon |
Now suspended from the party. |
Labour could fracture now which is really the last thing we need.
SB |  | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:11 - Oct 29 with 1121 views | lowhouseblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:09 - Oct 29 by solomon |
Now suspended from the party. |
just imagine, corbyn suspended and trump defeated all in one week. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:12 - Oct 29 with 1117 views | StokieBlue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:11 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
just imagine, corbyn suspended and trump defeated all in one week. |
SB | | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:15 - Oct 29 with 1102 views | solomon |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:11 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
just imagine, corbyn suspended and trump defeated all in one week. |
See, Christmas won’t be so bad after all | | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 13:15 - Oct 29 with 1099 views | lowhouseblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change on 12:38 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
A lot of them, yes. I’ve also condemned antisemitism.
It’s pretty easy to do when you look at actual evidence rather than being fully engaged and invested in the smear campaign like you. |
so the ehrc finds that suggesting that complaints of antisemitism were fake or smears was in itself unlawful harassment under the equality act 2010, but on you and on you go. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:19 - Oct 29 with 1084 views | solomon |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:10 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue |
Labour could fracture now which is really the last thing we need.
SB |
Whatever pain comes now will pay dividends for the future. The party needs to find itself again and connect with the electorate. | | | |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:20 - Oct 29 with 1079 views | bournemouthblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 10:41 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
the report gives a damning verdict on systematic political interference from the leader's office and a deep failure of leadership on the issue. it has disgraced the party. the party carried out unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination. utterly appalling.
given the past contributions from some on here, the following ought to make people stop and think. "the Labour Party breached the Equality Act 2010 by committing unlawful harassment through the acts of its agents … these included using antisemitic tropes and suggesting that complaints of antisemitism were fake or smears." |
That's a selective quote
“Our investigation found that the Labour Party breached the Equality Act 2010 by committing unlawful harassment through the acts of its agents in *two* of the complaints we investigated.”
Two.
One of which was to speed up Ken Livingstone's suspension |  |
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:24 - Oct 29 with 1064 views | giant_stow |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:10 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue |
Labour could fracture now which is really the last thing we need.
SB |
Thats the choice Corbyn made when making his statement. He had a chance to heal wounds, but instead chose to pick at them. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 13:31]
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| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:27 - Oct 29 with 1051 views | lowhouseblue |
| The EHRC report should hopefully bring about change. on 13:20 - Oct 29 by bournemouthblue |
That's a selective quote
“Our investigation found that the Labour Party breached the Equality Act 2010 by committing unlawful harassment through the acts of its agents in *two* of the complaints we investigated.”
Two.
One of which was to speed up Ken Livingstone's suspension |
two from a sample of all of the complaints. isn't 2 acts of unlawful harassment breaching the equalities act enough? or are just a couple unlawful acts just bad luck. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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