| 1 in 5 care home staff..... 08:34 - Feb 1 with 2464 views | Herbivore |
..... have refused to have the Covid vaccine according to the BBC this morning. That's a bit of a worrying figure, given that we're taking about a group for whom Covid is a significant risk and who know that transmitting Covid through their work would have very grave consequences.
If that's replicated or worse across the entire adult population then it's going to be pretty tricky to go completely back to normal. |  |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:27 - Feb 1 with 536 views | urbanblue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:08 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
You are of course right that they are developed by companies but if you listen to the reasons why people don't want it then usually very high up the list and often top is that they "don't trust the government".
This could be a "clumping" as you say with the "government" being a catch-all.
SB |
I have found different in my conversations. By far the biggest reason for a certain reticence is the feeling that the Vaccines have been rushed and people are just going to hold back for a little while to 'wait and see'.
I firmly believe that as time goes on and there are no major adverse reactions having the Vaccine will become normalised and the numbers will then rise quickly. Messaging is important though and I just fear that going too hard with force and coercion may produce the opposite results. [Post edited 1 Feb 2021 10:29]
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:35 - Feb 1 with 516 views | bluelagos |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 09:00 - Feb 1 by vapour_trail |
A few things at play here
1. Two decades of political leadership that brazenly lies to the public as a matter of course has completely eroded public trust.
2. Providing a platform to influencers who can say what they want without any sort of challenge, presenting an alternative reality as the truth.
3. A large proportion of the public are really fcking thick. |
You've nailed it for me Vapours. |  |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:38 - Feb 1 with 511 views | StokieBlue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:27 - Feb 1 by urbanblue |
I have found different in my conversations. By far the biggest reason for a certain reticence is the feeling that the Vaccines have been rushed and people are just going to hold back for a little while to 'wait and see'.
I firmly believe that as time goes on and there are no major adverse reactions having the Vaccine will become normalised and the numbers will then rise quickly. Messaging is important though and I just fear that going too hard with force and coercion may produce the opposite results. [Post edited 1 Feb 2021 10:29]
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Fair enough.
I didn't think that was the take from the Newsnight investigation the other day although I am sure there are many reasons.
Aren't people who say they are going to hold back because they see a risk just asking others to take the risk for them? It's wanting all the benefit without any risk.
I understand they are worried but it doesn't sit well with me.
SB |  | | |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:42 - Feb 1 with 502 views | chicoazul |
You can still catch and transmit the virus after vaccination. |  |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:44 - Feb 1 with 497 views | bluelagos |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:38 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
Fair enough.
I didn't think that was the take from the Newsnight investigation the other day although I am sure there are many reasons.
Aren't people who say they are going to hold back because they see a risk just asking others to take the risk for them? It's wanting all the benefit without any risk.
I understand they are worried but it doesn't sit well with me.
SB |
I know a couple of people worried about the vaccine. Selfish is the last word I would use to describe them. They are genuinely scared.
One tells me she worries that it could make her kids infertile and that they haven't tested for fertility issues with the vaccine. And she is right. How can they have done?
We can never say a vaccine is 100% safe and the level of anxiety around at the moment is off the scale.
And ref your point about "taking the benefit" - she wouldn't understand that if 85% take it, we get herd immunity and she gets the benefit. So I think you are assuming a level of thinking/selfishness/knowledge that simply isn't there. Certainly not in my friend's case. | |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:52 - Feb 1 with 481 views | StokieBlue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:44 - Feb 1 by bluelagos |
I know a couple of people worried about the vaccine. Selfish is the last word I would use to describe them. They are genuinely scared.
One tells me she worries that it could make her kids infertile and that they haven't tested for fertility issues with the vaccine. And she is right. How can they have done?
We can never say a vaccine is 100% safe and the level of anxiety around at the moment is off the scale.
And ref your point about "taking the benefit" - she wouldn't understand that if 85% take it, we get herd immunity and she gets the benefit. So I think you are assuming a level of thinking/selfishness/knowledge that simply isn't there. Certainly not in my friend's case. |
Morning BL.
I don't think you can build a case on a single person. You could equally say there is absolutely no evidence it will make her kids infertile and that view is entirely based on a stupid theory going around on social media (which is the case). An unproven negative like that can be extended to anything and in any way to suit any agenda.
My point is a general one, if people wait and see if others are affected by the vaccine before they decide to take it they are asking others to do something they are unwilling to do and thus take that risk. Furthermore they will prolong the pressure on the NHS and extend the lockdown which a lot of them won't like.
I've said I can understand the reasons and I didn't say anyone was selfish. However the fact, action and result remains the same regardless of the reasons. That is what I said doesn't sit that well with me.
SB [Post edited 1 Feb 2021 10:53]
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:57 - Feb 1 with 468 views | Bluefish |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:42 - Feb 1 by chicoazul |
You can still catch and transmit the virus after vaccination. |
Is that really proven though or just speculated? They seem to throw a lot of cloudiness like that so we don't have vaccinated people off doing what they like and either creating bad habits for others to then ignore the rules or for others to demand vaccinations sooner |  |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:58 - Feb 1 with 462 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:13 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
A lot of those issues are also misinformation though, especially we regards to the ingredients in the vaccine which have been falsified in order to target certain populations.
This is where the social media companies need to be held to account. Everyone should have access to all the accurate information they need. It's highly debatable if everyone should have access to clearly incorrect information.
SB |
It’s not just social media in these cases though - things like the German authorities announcing they won’t be giving the AZ vaccine to over 65’s as it hasn’t been tested enough will also erode confidence
Anti-vax misinformation is obviously a major factor in the first place but when you add in a perception that the vaccine has been rushed through (which is correct in some respects but not at the expense of usual testing controls etc) and then have actual credible organisations taking that sort of stance it’s hardly a surprise that some people will not want to risk it |  |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:58 - Feb 1 with 462 views | chicoazul |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:57 - Feb 1 by Bluefish |
Is that really proven though or just speculated? They seem to throw a lot of cloudiness like that so we don't have vaccinated people off doing what they like and either creating bad habits for others to then ignore the rules or for others to demand vaccinations sooner |
No vaccine prevents you from getting whatever it is vaccinating against. It emoliayes the symptoms. | |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:02 - Feb 1 with 444 views | StokieBlue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:58 - Feb 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It’s not just social media in these cases though - things like the German authorities announcing they won’t be giving the AZ vaccine to over 65’s as it hasn’t been tested enough will also erode confidence
Anti-vax misinformation is obviously a major factor in the first place but when you add in a perception that the vaccine has been rushed through (which is correct in some respects but not at the expense of usual testing controls etc) and then have actual credible organisations taking that sort of stance it’s hardly a surprise that some people will not want to risk it |
Indeed and I've said I understand them not wanting to take it. However not wanting to take it until others have tried it for them is the stance I am uneasy about and have been specific to say so.
More needs to be done to highlight that it's not been rushed and has in fact had a far larger set of clinical trials than most stage 3 trials. It seems easy to be subjected to misinformation on social media but a lot harder to be subjected factual information.
SB | | | |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:03 - Feb 1 with 435 views | chicoazul |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:02 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
Indeed and I've said I understand them not wanting to take it. However not wanting to take it until others have tried it for them is the stance I am uneasy about and have been specific to say so.
More needs to be done to highlight that it's not been rushed and has in fact had a far larger set of clinical trials than most stage 3 trials. It seems easy to be subjected to misinformation on social media but a lot harder to be subjected factual information.
SB |
You should tell Macron that. | |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:05 - Feb 1 with 430 views | bluelagos |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:52 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
Morning BL.
I don't think you can build a case on a single person. You could equally say there is absolutely no evidence it will make her kids infertile and that view is entirely based on a stupid theory going around on social media (which is the case). An unproven negative like that can be extended to anything and in any way to suit any agenda.
My point is a general one, if people wait and see if others are affected by the vaccine before they decide to take it they are asking others to do something they are unwilling to do and thus take that risk. Furthermore they will prolong the pressure on the NHS and extend the lockdown which a lot of them won't like.
I've said I can understand the reasons and I didn't say anyone was selfish. However the fact, action and result remains the same regardless of the reasons. That is what I said doesn't sit that well with me.
SB [Post edited 1 Feb 2021 10:53]
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Of course, 1 person is far from a reliable sample :-)
Just an example/insight into the thinking of a friend.
It does highlight that we need to be doing a lot more to understanding the barriers to vaccinations. We will only be able to address things we understand at the end of the day.
And if we are guessing why people are reluctant, then we are not going to get it right.
Did you see the Newsnight piece that brought up the 10 large companies that push anti-vacc messaging? Basically they sell supplements or whatever and make money from people seeking alternatives. Think there is a lot more reporting to do exposing them and ultimately legislating against them too. | |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:09 - Feb 1 with 421 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:03 - Feb 1 by chicoazul |
You should tell Macron that. |
Macron in a country full of anti vaxxers, making Trump like statements about AZ wasn’t very helpful. |  |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:10 - Feb 1 with 417 views | bluelagos |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:09 - Feb 1 by GlasgowBlue |
Macron in a country full of anti vaxxers, making Trump like statements about AZ wasn’t very helpful. |
Not followed Macron. What's he been saying/doing? | |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:12 - Feb 1 with 413 views | StokieBlue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:05 - Feb 1 by bluelagos |
Of course, 1 person is far from a reliable sample :-)
Just an example/insight into the thinking of a friend.
It does highlight that we need to be doing a lot more to understanding the barriers to vaccinations. We will only be able to address things we understand at the end of the day.
And if we are guessing why people are reluctant, then we are not going to get it right.
Did you see the Newsnight piece that brought up the 10 large companies that push anti-vacc messaging? Basically they sell supplements or whatever and make money from people seeking alternatives. Think there is a lot more reporting to do exposing them and ultimately legislating against them too. |
Totally agree we have to engage with why people don't want the vaccine but it's incredibly hard when they log onto social media and are immediately bombarded with more nonsense around vaccines. For example, Muslims were specifically targeted with information stating the vaccines weren't halal - something that is incorrect.
That example is different to someone just waiting to make sure I don't grow a second head if I take it. That is allowing your fellow human to take a risk you are unwilling to take and this "wait and see" view was the specific example in Urban's original post that I felt uneasy about even if I understand the reasons.
I didn't see that but those companies are parasites.
There was a law passed in the US that allowed them to promote supplements as effective even though they had no medical testing. It was an outrage in my opinion.
SB | | | |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:14 - Feb 1 with 406 views | StokieBlue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:10 - Feb 1 by bluelagos |
Not followed Macron. What's he been saying/doing? |
He's been saying that AZ doesn't work for over 65's which is pretty unhelpful given he's a state leader and people listen to him.
SB | | | |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:15 - Feb 1 with 401 views | chicoazul |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:14 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
He's been saying that AZ doesn't work for over 65's which is pretty unhelpful given he's a state leader and people listen to him.
SB |
Probably just worried about his wife/mum surrogate. | |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:15 - Feb 1 with 399 views | WeWereZombies |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 10:58 - Feb 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It’s not just social media in these cases though - things like the German authorities announcing they won’t be giving the AZ vaccine to over 65’s as it hasn’t been tested enough will also erode confidence
Anti-vax misinformation is obviously a major factor in the first place but when you add in a perception that the vaccine has been rushed through (which is correct in some respects but not at the expense of usual testing controls etc) and then have actual credible organisations taking that sort of stance it’s hardly a surprise that some people will not want to risk it |
It was the German press that got things round the wrong way - although the German government was a little slow off the mark to counter that bit of false information. |  |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:17 - Feb 1 with 395 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 11:10 - Feb 1 by bluelagos |
Not followed Macron. What's he been saying/doing? |
“ Today everything suggests that it is almost ineffective for those over 65, and some say over 60.”
He then went on to say ‘ I don't have any data, and I don't have a scientific team of my own to look at the numbers,'
The next day the EU approved AZ. | |
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| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 16:51 - Feb 1 with 329 views | longtimefan |
| 1 in 5 care home staff..... on 08:54 - Feb 1 by longtimefan |
I saw a chart yesterday, I think on the BBC website, that showed percentages of people willing to take the vaccine by nations. UK was top but with only around 75%, with most other nations significantly lower, many below 50%. Couldn’t believe the UK figure was that low, let alone the others |
Just remembered where I saw the chart. It was our world in data, not the beeb:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations |  | | |
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