| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 12:01 - Feb 7 with 1632 views | TractorWood |
Read this, this morning. Quite compelling. |  |
|  |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 12:58 - Feb 7 with 1603 views | eastangliaisblue |
Slightly off topic but still really interesting, is how when Korea split, the North Koreans spread propaganda to Koreans living in Japan, to move back 'home'.
I've recently read a book on it called 'A River In Darkness.' It's written by an escapee, who was born in Japan to a Korean Father and Japanese Mother. Fooled by the propaganda, the family moved to North Korea. Obviously they regretted it from the moment they set foot on the place. A really good read and a heartbreaking story. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 13:06]
|  | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 14:53 - Feb 7 with 1556 views | Clapham_Junction |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 12:58 - Feb 7 by eastangliaisblue |
Slightly off topic but still really interesting, is how when Korea split, the North Koreans spread propaganda to Koreans living in Japan, to move back 'home'.
I've recently read a book on it called 'A River In Darkness.' It's written by an escapee, who was born in Japan to a Korean Father and Japanese Mother. Fooled by the propaganda, the family moved to North Korea. Obviously they regretted it from the moment they set foot on the place. A really good read and a heartbreaking story. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 13:06]
|
What I find bizarre is how many of the Koreans in Japan voluntarily affiliate themselves with North Korea rather than South. The North Korean player at the 2010 World Cup who was
known for crying during the national anthem was born in Japan to parents with South Korean citizenship, but they identify as North Koreans. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 14:54]
|  | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 15:07 - Feb 7 with 1536 views | Churchman |
Interesting article. Dreadful and sinister.
The NK regime, from what little i know about it has no good side to it. Poor people. |  | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 15:48 - Feb 7 with 1507 views | monytowbray |
NK citizens will uprise one day. The internet makes it a very flaky dictatorship, and they ain’t got the budget nor social wealth to go full CCP. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 15:48]
|  |
| |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 15:51 - Feb 7 with 1502 views | bluelagos |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 15:48 - Feb 7 by monytowbray |
NK citizens will uprise one day. The internet makes it a very flaky dictatorship, and they ain’t got the budget nor social wealth to go full CCP. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 15:48]
|
Not sure how much internet access the ordinary NK citizen enjoys. So I think the uprising may be some time off sadly.
Agree they have no where near the wealth of China, but so far that hasn't seemed to matter, even when there was mass starvation. |  |
| |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 16:00 - Feb 7 with 1492 views | Churchman |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 15:51 - Feb 7 by bluelagos |
Not sure how much internet access the ordinary NK citizen enjoys. So I think the uprising may be some time off sadly.
Agree they have no where near the wealth of China, but so far that hasn't seemed to matter, even when there was mass starvation. |
How are they going to do that? Like Russia and China if you step out of line, good luck with that. If they have to get rid of 10s of 1000s, the people who ‘own’ these countries will still sleep well at night. | | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 16:07 - Feb 7 with 1489 views | bluelagos |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 16:00 - Feb 7 by Churchman |
How are they going to do that? Like Russia and China if you step out of line, good luck with that. If they have to get rid of 10s of 1000s, the people who ‘own’ these countries will still sleep well at night. |
Absolutely.
Whoever speaks out gets sorted out quickly.
Spent a few days at a conference in Beijing about 10 years ago and spoke to some colleagues about how in China, even using the internet came with a risk of a visit from state officials.
It was described to me thus. First visit "We've seen your comments, please stop". Second visit "This is your final warning, next time you are in trouble" and the third visit would involve arrest and then who knows what.
But I also remember a conversation from an Afrikaneer about Apartheid. He said to me that you can keep people down, by violent means or other, but when the lid blows off (and it will one day) - it will be all the more violent when it does.
So yeah, not expecting an uprising anytime soon. But it will come, and when it does, it will be swift, messy and long overdue. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:10 - Feb 7 with 1462 views | eastangliaisblue |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 15:51 - Feb 7 by bluelagos |
Not sure how much internet access the ordinary NK citizen enjoys. So I think the uprising may be some time off sadly.
Agree they have no where near the wealth of China, but so far that hasn't seemed to matter, even when there was mass starvation. |
You also have to take into account how if a North Korean citizen steps out of line, it's not just the individual who is punished. They have a three generation rule, where the whole of the living family of the individual is punished, as well as the next two generations to be born. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 17:14]
| | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:13 - Feb 7 with 1455 views | eastangliaisblue |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 14:53 - Feb 7 by Clapham_Junction |
What I find bizarre is how many of the Koreans in Japan voluntarily affiliate themselves with North Korea rather than South. The North Korean player at the 2010 World Cup who was
known for crying during the national anthem was born in Japan to parents with South Korean citizenship, but they identify as North Koreans. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 14:54]
|
I think it's a case of most Koreans see themselves as Koreans, not Northern or Southern. Most have family members living on both sides of the divide. | | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:14 - Feb 7 with 1445 views | Ace_High1 |
Fascinating (and brutal) country in many ways is NK. |  | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:16 - Feb 7 with 1437 views | eastangliaisblue |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:14 - Feb 7 by Ace_High1 |
Fascinating (and brutal) country in many ways is NK. |
Indeed, I've done a lot of reading on North Korea, and been lucky enough to visit the DMZ. It really is one of a kind. | | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:27 - Feb 7 with 1424 views | Kropotkin123 |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:13 - Feb 7 by eastangliaisblue |
I think it's a case of most Koreans see themselves as Koreans, not Northern or Southern. Most have family members living on both sides of the divide. |
When in South Korea I used to run a Korean politics class for uni students in English. I think the what you describe is the older generation. The vast majority, when I posed this question and discussed it with them saw themselves as South Korean. They also didn't want to reunify, due to the costs and inevitable influx of North Korean immigrants.
They would say their parents would take the opposite view, which ties more into family members and friends being on the other side. |  |
| |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:33 - Feb 7 with 1416 views | eastangliaisblue |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:27 - Feb 7 by Kropotkin123 |
When in South Korea I used to run a Korean politics class for uni students in English. I think the what you describe is the older generation. The vast majority, when I posed this question and discussed it with them saw themselves as South Korean. They also didn't want to reunify, due to the costs and inevitable influx of North Korean immigrants.
They would say their parents would take the opposite view, which ties more into family members and friends being on the other side. |
Yes it is more the older generation. As you point out too, reunification would be a very costly and complex situation. Economically a bit like West and East Germany but on a much bigger scale, as they are so far apart in development. | | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:38 - Feb 7 with 1408 views | Churchman |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:10 - Feb 7 by eastangliaisblue |
You also have to take into account how if a North Korean citizen steps out of line, it's not just the individual who is punished. They have a three generation rule, where the whole of the living family of the individual is punished, as well as the next two generations to be born. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 17:14]
|
Wow, that’s awful. It reminds me of mother Russia under Stalin. Not only would the offender be got rid of, but his/her family too. And their friends and acquaintances. They’d be deleted from the records, photos erased. He detested everyone bar the Georgians and I suspect he disliked most of those. Imagine getting a promotion in the Russian army? Same as a death sentence, basically. ‘The boss is not happy’ (Enemy at the Gates). Revolver left on desk...
Stalin of course died in bed, boots off in grand old age after a hard but satisfying life. Putin has a way to go to match his achievements, if you can call them that. | | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:39 - Feb 7 with 1409 views | Kropotkin123 |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 12:58 - Feb 7 by eastangliaisblue |
Slightly off topic but still really interesting, is how when Korea split, the North Koreans spread propaganda to Koreans living in Japan, to move back 'home'.
I've recently read a book on it called 'A River In Darkness.' It's written by an escapee, who was born in Japan to a Korean Father and Japanese Mother. Fooled by the propaganda, the family moved to North Korea. Obviously they regretted it from the moment they set foot on the place. A really good read and a heartbreaking story. [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 13:06]
|
The Russians liberated Korea from Japan and were seen as heroes amongst the population. Those that were at the heart of the resistance to Japanese rule were Socialist, Communist, etc. The initial government that the USA set up, along with the KCIA, were deeply unpopular. So this sort of propaganda was of little surprise.
Looking at South Korea now, it is easy to forget that they weren't exactly the most progressive society post war. You had massacres in Jeju, Jeonju and Gwanju of the local population, including students. They had a dictatorship, until the leader was assassinated. Corporatism, the same economic policy of Nazi Germany, was the backbone of companies like Samsung.
So for many, the North did look like the side that cared. We know differently now. But that is with hindsight. | |
| |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:50 - Feb 7 with 1395 views | eastangliaisblue |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:39 - Feb 7 by Kropotkin123 |
The Russians liberated Korea from Japan and were seen as heroes amongst the population. Those that were at the heart of the resistance to Japanese rule were Socialist, Communist, etc. The initial government that the USA set up, along with the KCIA, were deeply unpopular. So this sort of propaganda was of little surprise.
Looking at South Korea now, it is easy to forget that they weren't exactly the most progressive society post war. You had massacres in Jeju, Jeonju and Gwanju of the local population, including students. They had a dictatorship, until the leader was assassinated. Corporatism, the same economic policy of Nazi Germany, was the backbone of companies like Samsung.
So for many, the North did look like the side that cared. We know differently now. But that is with hindsight. |
Great post, nice to know there's other Korean enthusiasts out there! | | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:51 - Feb 7 with 1394 views | bluelagos |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:39 - Feb 7 by Kropotkin123 |
The Russians liberated Korea from Japan and were seen as heroes amongst the population. Those that were at the heart of the resistance to Japanese rule were Socialist, Communist, etc. The initial government that the USA set up, along with the KCIA, were deeply unpopular. So this sort of propaganda was of little surprise.
Looking at South Korea now, it is easy to forget that they weren't exactly the most progressive society post war. You had massacres in Jeju, Jeonju and Gwanju of the local population, including students. They had a dictatorship, until the leader was assassinated. Corporatism, the same economic policy of Nazi Germany, was the backbone of companies like Samsung.
So for many, the North did look like the side that cared. We know differently now. But that is with hindsight. |
What was the background to the massacres?
You really think those in the south would turn their backs on North Koreans if they wanted to unite? | |
| |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:59 - Feb 7 with 1385 views | Clapham_Junction |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:27 - Feb 7 by Kropotkin123 |
When in South Korea I used to run a Korean politics class for uni students in English. I think the what you describe is the older generation. The vast majority, when I posed this question and discussed it with them saw themselves as South Korean. They also didn't want to reunify, due to the costs and inevitable influx of North Korean immigrants.
They would say their parents would take the opposite view, which ties more into family members and friends being on the other side. |
My Korean ex had a similar view.
If reunification does ever happen, I think North Koreans will need protecting from the capitalist system for a few years. If it happens with no limits in place, I can foresee unscrupulous business folks buying up a lot of stuff - businesses and property - much like happened when the USSR collapsed. I'd hope they would impose some kind of restrictions on property transactions for a few years after any unification process.
Personally I don't think an uprising is going to happen. Unfortunately I also think it's unlikely in China - Chinese people I know who have been over here for more than a decade still can't tolerate any criticism of the government, who have done a very good job of making the population believe the government and the country is inseparable. I was arguing about the Xinjiang situation with a Chinese friend the other day and she claims having 1m people in camps is justifiable. I'm not sure if she actually believes it (sadly I think she might) or is just unwilling to admit the government is doing something horrendous. | | | |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 18:25 - Feb 7 with 1359 views | Kropotkin123 |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:51 - Feb 7 by bluelagos |
What was the background to the massacres?
You really think those in the south would turn their backs on North Koreans if they wanted to unite? |
No, not wanting to do something, and feeling obligated are two different things. Korea is very hierarchical, even to this day, when it comes to age. So they would do it. But the younger generation, as a generalisation, don't want it to happen.
Re-unification is still part of the national government policy, whether the right or left are in charge.
EDIT:
Background to the massacres are complex, but as a generalisation the students rose up in Jeonju and Gwangju due to there being a dictatorship. They wanted a liberal democracy. They were killed by the Korean army with the Americans being complicit by not intervening. If you look at the voting map, you will see that Gwangju and Jeonju vote 80-90% for the left wing party, and this is because of this act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Uprising
Jeju was more radical and rose up on a more socialist platform. It was similarly "put down"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_uprising
I feel like wikipedia is more accurate these days. So these are the event I refer to. I generally use this - https://www.eastasiaforum.org/ - for modern Asian politics, as they are written by scholars [Post edited 7 Feb 2021 18:36]
| |
| |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 18:38 - Feb 7 with 1343 views | Kropotkin123 |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 17:59 - Feb 7 by Clapham_Junction |
My Korean ex had a similar view.
If reunification does ever happen, I think North Koreans will need protecting from the capitalist system for a few years. If it happens with no limits in place, I can foresee unscrupulous business folks buying up a lot of stuff - businesses and property - much like happened when the USSR collapsed. I'd hope they would impose some kind of restrictions on property transactions for a few years after any unification process.
Personally I don't think an uprising is going to happen. Unfortunately I also think it's unlikely in China - Chinese people I know who have been over here for more than a decade still can't tolerate any criticism of the government, who have done a very good job of making the population believe the government and the country is inseparable. I was arguing about the Xinjiang situation with a Chinese friend the other day and she claims having 1m people in camps is justifiable. I'm not sure if she actually believes it (sadly I think she might) or is just unwilling to admit the government is doing something horrendous. |
Add to that that many Chinese people would rather have a dictatorship, than civil unrest, due to their collective history of the civil war. | |
| |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 19:31 - Feb 7 with 1317 views | Clapham_Junction |
| An interesting but sad read on NK historically abducting Japanese nationals on 18:38 - Feb 7 by Kropotkin123 |
Add to that that many Chinese people would rather have a dictatorship, than civil unrest, due to their collective history of the civil war. |
There also seems to be the view among people I speak to that China is not ready for democracy - they say it might work in the cities where people are generally well educated, but people in the countryside would be easily led by demagogues. The sad thing is that they point to what's happened in the US and UK in the last few years as 'proof' democracy would be dangerous... | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
