| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 23:22 - Feb 15 with 3487 views | StokieBlue |
The measures taken to control C19 have effectively eliminated the flu season this year. It's been similar in most countries (including the UK) but the figures from the US show that there have been only 1316 positive flu cases when last year by this time there were 129,997 positive cases (only 155 people have been hospitalised with flu this season).
Many people seem to be citing that if we can get C19 to the level we "accept" for flu deaths then we can live with that but surely the we should question whether we should accept those flu deaths at all?
Flu is less contagious than C19, the R is lower and thus measures to restrict it don't have to be as draconian as C19. A few simple things like washing hands habitually, limited social distancing and wearing masks (perhaps even just when you feel unwell to protect others) could make a massive difference to the flu deaths.
I've also seen people saying they can't wait to stop wearing masks (which I can understand) but if it was only in certain circumstances then surely it would be worth it to vastly reduce flu deaths? The argument that we can accept C19 at current flu levels can surely be extended to say that we shouldn't accept flu at current levels given it's not as contagious and those deaths can be reduced with some fairly simple measures?
There was a woman on Newsnight this evening who put forward a similar argument very well and it's worth a watch.
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/22272237/flu-cases-down-historic-what-doe
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 08:53 - Feb 16 with 1435 views | StokieBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 08:49 - Feb 16 by N2_Blue |
SB, all you say is fair enough.
But the problem here isn't the fact that we could easily reduce influenza deaths.
The problem is (that already in a pretty broken society/world) this is only going to increase the divide, and polarised camps. Politically we have seen growing discontent and the fact everything seems to be you're right/left. Brexit/Remain etc etc and now this is only going to add to those that say live your life as you want, and the social distancing (limited) mask waring is an infringement on personal freedoms.
Yes it will only be personal choice and any decent citizen knows what the right thing to do is but humans in general can be a pretty revolting species and this will only increase the noise between those that respect their own and those that do not and are only in it for them
Humans are increasingly selfish in a selfish world and unfortunately this pandemic is going to change things socially for the worse for decades, potentially centuries, into the future. |
I find it hugely depressing that something which can save lives could end up being boiled down to a societal divide issue. You are probably right that we are in that position at the moment though.
However, even if just those who want to do it partake it will make a difference. The issue will be if they are ridiculed or abused for doing so.
Why do you feel the pandemic will change things for the worse over such a long timescale? If anything hasn't it shown that the advice and opinions of experts is vital if society wants to solve problems, such as C19? Obviously that message won't get through to all but I think it will permeate further than it would have done 2 years ago.
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:10 - Feb 16 with 1408 views | N2_Blue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 08:53 - Feb 16 by StokieBlue |
I find it hugely depressing that something which can save lives could end up being boiled down to a societal divide issue. You are probably right that we are in that position at the moment though.
However, even if just those who want to do it partake it will make a difference. The issue will be if they are ridiculed or abused for doing so.
Why do you feel the pandemic will change things for the worse over such a long timescale? If anything hasn't it shown that the advice and opinions of experts is vital if society wants to solve problems, such as C19? Obviously that message won't get through to all but I think it will permeate further than it would have done 2 years ago.
SB |
Why? Because people are becoming increasingly selfish and more polarised by differences in opinions.
If people have a political divide it generally just leads to arguments on a forum, down the pub etc but doesn't impact general day to day living as if you walk past someone in the street you don't know what their political preference is.
However changes in behaviour that are required due to this pandemic affect every single person and every single person can see how someone is behaving and what their attitude is. This is why there will be an increased society divide as a result of both the pandemic and the legacy it leaves in terms of hum behaviours. It's depressing unfortunately but that is what we are going to see.
I'm not saying the message won't get through to more people than two years ago but I'm saying the noise made about personal freedoms being infringed will be effectively be like the new Brexit. It's all we are going to hear about for a long long time. This was already happening before COVID, but this disease is now a uniter for those that have this stance.
Look at the stigma something like aids caused, and that has taken 30 years to get a change in attitude and that's for very different type of disease that you don't get confronted with by just walking into a supermarket. COVID is a game changer for society (for the worse). This will change society forever. |  |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:10 - Feb 16 with 1409 views | eastangliaisblue |
Just thinking out aloud here. As flu has all but disappeared this year, if we were to go back to normal, could we see a potential 'mini' pandemic of flu next year? As we haven't built up an immune response by flu not being around this year.
I have found it ironic this winter that I haven't had so much as a sniffle, and being in the middle of a pandemic I've never felt better! |  | | |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:12 - Feb 16 with 1405 views | StokieBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:10 - Feb 16 by eastangliaisblue |
Just thinking out aloud here. As flu has all but disappeared this year, if we were to go back to normal, could we see a potential 'mini' pandemic of flu next year? As we haven't built up an immune response by flu not being around this year.
I have found it ironic this winter that I haven't had so much as a sniffle, and being in the middle of a pandemic I've never felt better! |
There is a possibility of this happening but flu mutates quickly (much like C19) and the dominant strain each year is usually different or even new so existing antibodies don't provide full protection for each years flu strain anyway.
Indeed, amazing to have a winter without a cold, sore throat and all the other usual nonsense.
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:15 - Feb 16 with 1395 views | mikeybloo88 |
Great...no flu the first year I actual get the jab for it :) Seriously though, if it looks like we might be having annual civil jabs for a while, is there any reason other than cost why we can't give all adults a flu jab at the same time? |  | | |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:24 - Feb 16 with 1393 views | Radlett_blue |
Regular washing of hands is good hygiene & would reduce the transmission of other viruses. Not shaking hands (many countries shun this habit) would be a good step as well.
I don't think regular wearing of masks would be acceptable to most, but recommending mask wearing on public transport (common in many Asian countries) would make sense to me. |  |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:27 - Feb 16 with 1388 views | StokieBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:24 - Feb 16 by Radlett_blue |
Regular washing of hands is good hygiene & would reduce the transmission of other viruses. Not shaking hands (many countries shun this habit) would be a good step as well.
I don't think regular wearing of masks would be acceptable to most, but recommending mask wearing on public transport (common in many Asian countries) would make sense to me. |
It would be more wearing a mask if you yourself feel ill to protect others. Outside of public transport I don't think regularly wearing of masks would happen as you say and probably wouldn't be required if people did wear them when they felt ill as they would stop them infecting others and limit the spread.
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:38 - Feb 16 with 1374 views | bracknell_blue |
I think free flu vaccinations for all over 50s may have played a part. |  |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:40 - Feb 16 with 1371 views | StokieBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:38 - Feb 16 by bracknell_blue |
I think free flu vaccinations for all over 50s may have played a part. |
This is covered in the article I linked. Scientists believe it paid a small part but the vast majority of the benefits they ascribe to the C19 measures.
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:45 - Feb 16 with 1370 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 08:23 - Feb 16 by StokieBlue |
I've just asked for you to present some evidence, nothing more. You said it would have marginal gains but that's not helpful if you can't support it.
SB [Post edited 16 Feb 2021 8:30]
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You are correct...I have no evidence either way for something that hasn't happened yet (your 3 monthsuggestion) but will get my team of scientists on to it immediately and then get back to you. |  |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:46 - Feb 16 with 1368 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 08:39 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you understand the difference between reducing the risk of transmissions and eradication? |
Yes thanks. | |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:57 - Feb 16 with 1362 views | Sarge |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:10 - Feb 16 by eastangliaisblue |
Just thinking out aloud here. As flu has all but disappeared this year, if we were to go back to normal, could we see a potential 'mini' pandemic of flu next year? As we haven't built up an immune response by flu not being around this year.
I have found it ironic this winter that I haven't had so much as a sniffle, and being in the middle of a pandemic I've never felt better! |
It’s been about 15 months since I last had a cold which is remarkable as I’d often get about 3 or 4 a year. But given the massive physical and mental detriment these measures (all of them, even the so-called small ones) have had on me, I’d much rather have just had a cold. |  | | |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:01 - Feb 16 with 1355 views | jeera |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:57 - Feb 16 by Sarge |
It’s been about 15 months since I last had a cold which is remarkable as I’d often get about 3 or 4 a year. But given the massive physical and mental detriment these measures (all of them, even the so-called small ones) have had on me, I’d much rather have just had a cold. |
To be fair I don't think anyone is suggesting we have a lock down each time there are colds around.
Your case there proves the point though doesn't it?
Basic measures, simple basic measures, would make all the difference to a nation's health.
It's not much to ask for people to consider their own hygiene and other people a bit more is it. I don't want people coughing and spluttering over me at any time.
Not well but have to go out, wear a sodding mask for the 5 minutes you're in a shop. It's not hard for people. |  |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:04 - Feb 16 with 1350 views | Sarge |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:01 - Feb 16 by jeera |
To be fair I don't think anyone is suggesting we have a lock down each time there are colds around.
Your case there proves the point though doesn't it?
Basic measures, simple basic measures, would make all the difference to a nation's health.
It's not much to ask for people to consider their own hygiene and other people a bit more is it. I don't want people coughing and spluttering over me at any time.
Not well but have to go out, wear a sodding mask for the 5 minutes you're in a shop. It's not hard for people. |
No I didn’t think they were, just something funny about an issue that has plagued me all my life finally stopping but only because the world has ended.
I don’t disagree at all, I’m fully supportive of taking forward better basic hygiene when this is over. | | | |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:08 - Feb 16 with 1331 views | GlasgowBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:46 - Feb 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yes thanks. |
Then you are just being contrary for the sake of it. |  |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:11 - Feb 16 with 1325 views | Radlett_blue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 09:27 - Feb 16 by StokieBlue |
It would be more wearing a mask if you yourself feel ill to protect others. Outside of public transport I don't think regularly wearing of masks would happen as you say and probably wouldn't be required if people did wear them when they felt ill as they would stop them infecting others and limit the spread.
SB |
Yes, if people feel ill or have a cold, they should probably wear a mask when out in public. Maybe the culture whereby many insist on commuting to work when they have a heavy cold should stop? | |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:12 - Feb 16 with 1320 views | StokieBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:11 - Feb 16 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, if people feel ill or have a cold, they should probably wear a mask when out in public. Maybe the culture whereby many insist on commuting to work when they have a heavy cold should stop? |
It definitely should stop and the government should make provisions to cover sick pay if the companies aren't doing that.
The benefits outweigh the cost.
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:13 - Feb 16 with 1319 views | Sarge |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:11 - Feb 16 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, if people feel ill or have a cold, they should probably wear a mask when out in public. Maybe the culture whereby many insist on commuting to work when they have a heavy cold should stop? |
Hopefully the culture of commuting to work at all will stop. Workplaces and commuters must contribute massively to any kind of infectious transmission and I’m sure most of us don’t want (or need) to be in the office full time anyway | | | |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:23 - Feb 16 with 1305 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:08 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Then you are just being contrary for the sake of it. |
Nope it comes down to a cost/benefit analysis of a slowly increasing list of measures (effective sick pay added so far) the positive results of which are purely speculative at the moment as the specific limited measures have never been implemented.
Isn't that how debates work? | |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:24 - Feb 16 with 1302 views | StokieBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:23 - Feb 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Nope it comes down to a cost/benefit analysis of a slowly increasing list of measures (effective sick pay added so far) the positive results of which are purely speculative at the moment as the specific limited measures have never been implemented.
Isn't that how debates work? |
They have been implemented this year.
Did you look at the figures in my original post or the link? ~99% reduction in cases of flu with the restrictions. If we can even get it to 50% with lesser restrictions surely it's worth considering?
SB | |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:25 - Feb 16 with 1302 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:12 - Feb 16 by StokieBlue |
It definitely should stop and the government should make provisions to cover sick pay if the companies aren't doing that.
The benefits outweigh the cost.
SB |
That winter vomiting that kids spread every year must cost the economy a few bob every year....maybe home schooling over the winter months is the way to go. | |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:27 - Feb 16 with 1299 views | StokieBlue |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:25 - Feb 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That winter vomiting that kids spread every year must cost the economy a few bob every year....maybe home schooling over the winter months is the way to go. |
You're just being facetious now, it's not a great look.
Where did anyone mention the economy? People are talking about saving lives, a distinct difference.
SB | |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:27 - Feb 16 with 1295 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:13 - Feb 16 by Sarge |
Hopefully the culture of commuting to work at all will stop. Workplaces and commuters must contribute massively to any kind of infectious transmission and I’m sure most of us don’t want (or need) to be in the office full time anyway |
...but sandwich and coffee shops. | |
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:31 - Feb 16 with 1281 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:24 - Feb 16 by StokieBlue |
They have been implemented this year.
Did you look at the figures in my original post or the link? ~99% reduction in cases of flu with the restrictions. If we can even get it to 50% with lesser restrictions surely it's worth considering?
SB |
No they haven't, it has been alongside other wide ranging measures too! So there is, as I say, no evidence for your view either!
Edit...yes, worth considering, as is not doing so. [Post edited 16 Feb 2021 10:31]
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| There has essentially been no flu season in 2020/2021 on 10:31 - Feb 16 with 1280 views | GeoffSentence |
One other point is that flu vaccinations were extended to the over 50s this year as well. So on top of the covid restrictions, which actually were pretty loose right up to December, we also have a bunch of people vaccinated who may previously have been a reservoir of infection. Just keeping the extended flu vaccination program will probably go a long way to keeping flu down. |  |
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