| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:14 - Mar 12 with 667 views | gtsb1966 |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:04 - Mar 12 by vapour_trail |
What about the people sitting at home losing 20% of their income, who will be going out to reclaim the streets tomorrow? |
What about them. I'm merely pointing out that everyone is making sacrifices to avoid covid spreading. I think to a man/woman everyone on this board the last year has had a dissenting voice to anyone not sticking to the rules. We can't and shouldn't backtrack now. |  | |  |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:24 - Mar 12 with 638 views | borge |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:04 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
You are of course entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.
As I literally just posted, the BLM protest in June were organised to minimise CV and am sure these ones (which I think will be far smaller) will be too.
It is possible to gather safely outside and that is exactly what people intend to do.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-suffolk-52951826 |
Absolutely you are entitled to your opinion, but in this case you are advocating something that even if it is not technically against the law, is certainly against the spirit of it.
I accept that the intention will (for most people) be to do it in a COVID safe way, but suspect the reality will be rather different.
It's a very difficult one from a moral perspective; effectively doing something that is arguably immoral in order to do something that has a very sound moral argument behind it. I can't agree that that is the right course of action when we have worked so hard and are so close to achieving collective freedom, but appreciate the choice to do so is absolutely your right. |  | | |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:25 - Mar 12 with 634 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:03 - Mar 12 by gtsb1966 |
Sorry but we have a situation here where it's all or nothing. You simply cannot deviate from the present rules to suit one cause. Try telling the people sitting at home who are losing ,at least, twenty percent of their income that it's ok for one but not the other. |
Not sure I understand your point. If it is that because we are in a pandemic, people should not be allowed to protest in a CV secure way, a court has just ruled otherwise.
Whether the police now facilitate that legal right, we will see, although I am not holding my breath. |  |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:29 - Mar 12 with 626 views | gtsb1966 |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:25 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
Not sure I understand your point. If it is that because we are in a pandemic, people should not be allowed to protest in a CV secure way, a court has just ruled otherwise.
Whether the police now facilitate that legal right, we will see, although I am not holding my breath. |
Borge has explained it so much better than me and I agree with everything he says. I'm not against protesting but regardless of the law this is so wrong morally. | | | |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:30 - Mar 12 with 622 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:24 - Mar 12 by borge |
Absolutely you are entitled to your opinion, but in this case you are advocating something that even if it is not technically against the law, is certainly against the spirit of it.
I accept that the intention will (for most people) be to do it in a COVID safe way, but suspect the reality will be rather different.
It's a very difficult one from a moral perspective; effectively doing something that is arguably immoral in order to do something that has a very sound moral argument behind it. I can't agree that that is the right course of action when we have worked so hard and are so close to achieving collective freedom, but appreciate the choice to do so is absolutely your right. |
The spirit of the law vs the letter of the law. What us mere mortals spend thousands getting a judge to apply (or not).
Anyhow, hopefully the Suffolk police will clarify soon enough their position. I know Essex police have ruled against a vigil in Chelmsford but not heard yet about the Ipswich one. | |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:33 - Mar 12 with 613 views | borge |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:30 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
The spirit of the law vs the letter of the law. What us mere mortals spend thousands getting a judge to apply (or not).
Anyhow, hopefully the Suffolk police will clarify soon enough their position. I know Essex police have ruled against a vigil in Chelmsford but not heard yet about the Ipswich one. |
Well if they do stop it from going ahead then by all means count me in if something happens when lockdown is over. I'd like to think the others who are of the same opinion as me will do likewise. | | | |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:35 - Mar 12 with 608 views | gtsb1966 |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:30 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
The spirit of the law vs the letter of the law. What us mere mortals spend thousands getting a judge to apply (or not).
Anyhow, hopefully the Suffolk police will clarify soon enough their position. I know Essex police have ruled against a vigil in Chelmsford but not heard yet about the Ipswich one. |
At certain points in this pandemic we were told various rules. At one point I was allowed to sit in a mates garden with people not in my household and have a beer .We sat apart . There were six of us. If I did that tomorrow would you frown upon it? | | | |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:36 - Mar 12 with 607 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:24 - Mar 12 by borge |
Absolutely you are entitled to your opinion, but in this case you are advocating something that even if it is not technically against the law, is certainly against the spirit of it.
I accept that the intention will (for most people) be to do it in a COVID safe way, but suspect the reality will be rather different.
It's a very difficult one from a moral perspective; effectively doing something that is arguably immoral in order to do something that has a very sound moral argument behind it. I can't agree that that is the right course of action when we have worked so hard and are so close to achieving collective freedom, but appreciate the choice to do so is absolutely your right. |
To argue it is morally wrong I assume you are of the opinion it is unsafe with regards to the spread of CV? If I thought it was, I'd agree with you. I don't. I don't believe standing socially distanced, outside with a mask on is an unsafe thing to do.
Ironically, if the vigils were inside a church, they would be legal and far more dangerous. Maybe you'd then be happy? But I wouldnt as I think that would be unsafe. | |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:41 - Mar 12 with 591 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:35 - Mar 12 by gtsb1966 |
At certain points in this pandemic we were told various rules. At one point I was allowed to sit in a mates garden with people not in my household and have a beer .We sat apart . There were six of us. If I did that tomorrow would you frown upon it? |
I dont judge people. But its not something I would do.
If you were socially distanced I wouldnt particularly care, although your actions would be illegal. If I was aware a neighbour was doing it I wouldnt feel aggrieved enough to report them.
If it was indoors, I'd be far more aggrieved/p*ssed off as that would be likely to spread the disease.
Not sure why any of that is relevant though. | |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:41 - Mar 12 with 588 views | gtsb1966 |
P.s bluelagos...not trying not argue, just my personal views. | | | |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:49 - Mar 12 with 581 views | gtsb1966 |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:41 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
I dont judge people. But its not something I would do.
If you were socially distanced I wouldnt particularly care, although your actions would be illegal. If I was aware a neighbour was doing it I wouldnt feel aggrieved enough to report them.
If it was indoors, I'd be far more aggrieved/p*ssed off as that would be likely to spread the disease.
Not sure why any of that is relevant though. |
It has a relevance because I , nor would my mates, be spreading covid. We are not allowed to do it though. You say you wouldn't do it but you would protest in pretty much the same manner. I don't get it. | | | |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:50 - Mar 12 with 581 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 16:41 - Mar 12 by Pinewoodblue |
Finding ways around Covid restrictions shouldn’t really be encouraged and it does seem that anyone who does so is breaking a law which is there to protect the majority.
There are lots of things I would like to do, seeing grandchildren, going out for a meal, seeing a game at Portman Road etc. but I can no more do any of those than I can meet others to draw attention to something that really does need sorting. |
Yes of course. Finding ways around them shouldn't be encouraged. Finding ways to carry on within the rules is another matter though. We do it in a whole host of other ways (e.g. work and school, just to mention the two obvious ones).
This is far from straightforward. As you say, people have made all sorts of sacrifices over the last 12 months so there's that angle to consider. Anything that from a scientific view would be likely to increase transmission would also be a bad idea. I'm just wondering if there would be a way to allow people to highlight this important issue whilst not increasing the transmission risk. If that's doable I don't see the problem. |  |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:00 - Mar 12 with 566 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:49 - Mar 12 by gtsb1966 |
It has a relevance because I , nor would my mates, be spreading covid. We are not allowed to do it though. You say you wouldn't do it but you would protest in pretty much the same manner. I don't get it. |
Firstly, I havent said I'd do anything, I am awaiting the legal position being made clearer.
If it's ruled ok by the police then I will indeed go. If not, then I'll have a difficult decision to make. | |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:14 - Mar 12 with 546 views | gtsb1966 |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:00 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
Firstly, I havent said I'd do anything, I am awaiting the legal position being made clearer.
If it's ruled ok by the police then I will indeed go. If not, then I'll have a difficult decision to make. |
So you are waiting for the police to tell you what to do rather than your conscience. The thing that makes me laugh about this board is that because you are such a good poster , and you are, people are not jumping all over me for questioning your intentions. Their silence is deafening. Sorry my friend but I think you are wrong. We simply cannot condone mass gatherings at this time however good the cause is. | | | |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow (n/t) on 21:21 - Mar 12 with 541 views | tivo |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:23 - Mar 12 with 526 views | Ryorry |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 10:19 - Mar 12 by clive_baker |
Anything men can do to help women feel more comfortable and safe on our streets I'm all for. I've seen a lot of things being shared on social media which I've learned a bit from, crossing the road if I'm walking behind a female for example which I probably wouldn't have considered previously. That's all great, and I'm all for it. Raising awareness of the issue is important.
The problem for me really is it's preaching to the converted in some respects isn't it? They won't legislate for the actions of lunatics like whoever committed that crime on Sarah Everard. The world will never be rid of psycho's like that.
The question moving forward and what I really hope comes from this is asking what tangible actions can we take to help prevent such, admittedly rate, events from happening. Prevention is better than cure. Practical solutions, deterrents by way of the stiffest of sentences for lesser crimes. I don't know the stats but I would wager it's rare to go from clean record civilian to committing a murder of a stranger. This chap, if it is indeed he who did this, was reported only 2 days before for indecent exposure, and was still at work the next day.
How can we better work with and reform those who might be likely of committing such crimes, if they're not beyond help. Can we use technology to better protect innocent civilians? As fellow citizens, what signs should we be looking out for each other as we go about our business to help protect others? There's an education piece probably. I really hope Sarah doesn't die in vein, and we can keep learning lessons to help mitigate the risk of this happening again. [Post edited 12 Mar 2021 10:20]
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"Can we use technology to better protect innocent civilians? As fellow citizens, what signs should we be looking out for each other as we go about our business to help protect others?"
Someone posted a Sky News article earlier, in which there was a link to this piece explaining 1) a new, silent handsignal 2) An iPhone shortcut using the side button + volume button, & 3) A 'codeword ANI' scheme launched by pharmacies - which those seeking help without it being noticed, can get help -
https://news.sky.com/story/the-simple-hand-signal-that-lets-people-know-youre-in |  |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:26 - Mar 12 with 519 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:14 - Mar 12 by gtsb1966 |
So you are waiting for the police to tell you what to do rather than your conscience. The thing that makes me laugh about this board is that because you are such a good poster , and you are, people are not jumping all over me for questioning your intentions. Their silence is deafening. Sorry my friend but I think you are wrong. We simply cannot condone mass gatherings at this time however good the cause is. |
I think you'll find I've had a lot more crticism than support today, probably 3 or 4 times more tbh.
But I think many people understand that it is possible to keep safe outside albeit there are questions of legality, of safety to be weighed up against a desire or otherwise to support a vigil.
And one thing I don't do is get overly concerned about following the crowd and/or seeking approval of others. Morale decisions are personal ones, legal decisions are for the lawyers.
But here's a quick example. Today a radio caller stated he normally travels 10 miles to put flowers on his mothers grave but that some felt it was illegal. My view would be that I absolutely would encourage him to go to his mothers grave. And anyone who argues otherwise, well I'll not be rude but I dont think highly of such opinions.
Anyhow, its been relatively civil so I 'll bid you a good night. | |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:29 - Mar 12 with 516 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow (n/t) on 21:21 - Mar 12 by tivo |
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I'll put you down as a 'no' then? | |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:31 - Mar 12 with 509 views | vapour_trail |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow (n/t) on 21:21 - Mar 12 by tivo |
This post has been edited by an administrator |
What’s your favourite cheese? |  |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:31 - Mar 12 with 511 views | Ryorry |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:29 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
I'll put you down as a 'no' then? |
He seems to have changed his viewpoint a bit since 15th Feb ... (8th post down p. 3) -
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:31 - Mar 12 with 501 views | gtsb1966 |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:29 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
I'll put you down as a 'no' then? |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:35 - Mar 12 with 489 views | bluelagos |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:31 - Mar 12 by Ryorry |
He seems to have changed his viewpoint a bit since 15th Feb ... (8th post down p. 3) -
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Page 3...
Great interwebbing :-) | |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:36 - Mar 12 with 486 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 20:50 - Mar 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes of course. Finding ways around them shouldn't be encouraged. Finding ways to carry on within the rules is another matter though. We do it in a whole host of other ways (e.g. work and school, just to mention the two obvious ones).
This is far from straightforward. As you say, people have made all sorts of sacrifices over the last 12 months so there's that angle to consider. Anything that from a scientific view would be likely to increase transmission would also be a bad idea. I'm just wondering if there would be a way to allow people to highlight this important issue whilst not increasing the transmission risk. If that's doable I don't see the problem. |
Think the only way is doing something virtually., but it doesn’t get the coverage. Suspect this group have been looking for a high profile case to highlight what is something of a problem. Something is wrong if a significant number of women feel unsafe in any environment.
There are at incidents everyday, somewhere in the UK, but it needs to be high profile to gain maximum coverage.
I attended a funeral yesterday in King’s Lynn. The journey, from Ipswich, doubled my mileage for the year. Apart from medical trips, or some essential shopping the car has stayed on the driveway.
You can make sure everyone making a protest maintains social distancing but you cannot control how people get there. There is no way any planned vigil is essential. By organizing a protest, knowing that the majority of those who attend will be breaking law by making a non essential journey you are yourself breaking the law. |  |
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:39 - Mar 12 with 477 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:35 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
Page 3...
Great interwebbing :-) |
Arf!
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| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:47 - Mar 12 with 461 views | m14_blue |
| Seems there is a Reclaim the streets event in Ipswich tomorrow on 21:35 - Mar 12 by bluelagos |
Page 3...
Great interwebbing :-) |
Pretty sure he was joking after that other thread....
EDIT: ignore me, it was actually him that said it in the other thread, what a numpty. Too sleuthing Ryorry. [Post edited 12 Mar 2021 21:52]
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