| Is signing in really such a hardship? 23:33 - Apr 1 with 4159 views | Coastalblue |
People seem to be getting really upset about giving their details over in order to go to the pub, but is it really such a big deal in the current situation?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56608632 |  |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:38 - Apr 2 with 542 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:34 - Apr 2 by Guthrum |
'Over' is probably a scenario whereby the virus is at a low level (similar to last summer and now) and the majority of the population have been vaccinated. So conceivably towards the latter part of this year.
Bear in mind the longer this goes on, the more money it's costing the government and the more damage it's doing to the economy. For no return other than preventing mass illness and death. They are not going to want this prolonged for a moment more than necessary. Indeed, they've already been guilty of jumping the gun. |
Wouldn’t disagree with that. |  | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:40 - Apr 2 with 542 views | Guthrum |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:25 - Apr 2 by chicoazul |
If the Govt mandates people handing their name and address over to go to the pub then that is a restriction on movement. I could have any number of reasons not to want to do it but that’s irrelevant. It’s the Govt imposing itself on me. This is where you and I will always fundamentally disagree. |
Yes, that was why I wasn't getting into reasons for why you wouldn't want to, that's a whole different argument.
And we probably will differ on that.  |  |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:41 - Apr 2 with 538 views | StokieBlue |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:37 - Apr 2 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Woah, steady tiger. I’m no conspiracy theorist but it’s valid to ask if this is going to be permanent or temporary.
Either way I will live with it but we can and should scrutinise the impact of this on society, and the long term implications. Have you seen anything from the Govt yet that says if they expect this to be short term , long term or permanent application? It may no matter but no harm to establish the thinking. |
I didn't say you were a conspiracy theorist, I said that putting scenarios like that out there feeds into the mindset of those that are and then they run with the ideas. I've had someone on here PMing me some fairly abusive stuff saying it's all a conspiracy.
I've seen no suggestion that these are anything other than short term ideas, although I suspect any documentation for international travel might be here for a while. It's already common practice for some countries with regards to other diseases.
I wouldn't be in favour of having these types of tracking systems in place for any longer than was absolutely required, even if they don't bother me that much, especially at the moment.
SB |  |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:42 - Apr 2 with 535 views | Mookamoo |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:37 - Apr 2 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Woah, steady tiger. I’m no conspiracy theorist but it’s valid to ask if this is going to be permanent or temporary.
Either way I will live with it but we can and should scrutinise the impact of this on society, and the long term implications. Have you seen anything from the Govt yet that says if they expect this to be short term , long term or permanent application? It may no matter but no harm to establish the thinking. |
Dowden has said that if they're introduced, they will a 'tool for the short term'.
Which coincidentally should be the Twitter biog for him, Hancock and Williamson. |  | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:46 - Apr 2 with 531 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:42 - Apr 2 by Mookamoo |
Dowden has said that if they're introduced, they will a 'tool for the short term'.
Which coincidentally should be the Twitter biog for him, Hancock and Williamson. |
Like 3 weeks to save the NHS was short term?
I do hope they get the messaging right on this as they have failed miserably on so much else around this pandemic. | | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:47 - Apr 2 with 523 views | footers |
People spend all day, every day giving away their data, knowingly or unknowingly, on the internet and elsewhere and some are now getting the hump over this?
Go complain about it on Facebook. [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 9:48]
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:48 - Apr 2 with 516 views | Parky |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:24 - Apr 2 by StokieBlue |
That is harsh, most have been hugely critical of the government and of the authorities.
It's all about practicalities though.
What do you want to happen? Everyone rammed into pubs with standing room only regardless of whether they are infectious? Why don't you tell us what should happen since we are all so naïve.
SB |
Just out of interest, because you’ve clearly researched this more than I have, but by the time we’re allowed inside of pubs, a vast majority of adults will have had at least 1 dose of vaccine, people also building up antibodies - has any research/science been done to see what effect a ‘free-for-all’ would actually have at that stage? |  | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:50 - Apr 2 with 511 views | Guthrum |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:38 - Apr 2 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Wouldn’t disagree with that. |
Altho 'over' might also be a slightly presumptuous term. I very much doubt Covid-19 will be eradicated, certainly not globally. It remains a highly infectious disease. We may get periodic major flare-ups every few years or decades.
Fortunately, if that occurs in this country, it is likely to be spotted and contained quite quickly*. We hopefully wouldn't need a return to national lockdowns and other drastic measures. Tho things like temporary local restrictions or travel bans may be appropriate.
* Even before this pandemic, there existed a list of notifiable diseases which, if any were spotted in the UK had to immediately be reported. | |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:57 - Apr 2 with 502 views | Guthrum |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:29 - Apr 2 by Mookamoo |
Is 'you don't have to sign in to the supermarket' becoming the new 'its just the flu' argument?
In practical terms, it is going to allow venues to open to more people at a quicker rate than without. The venue I work with has a capacity of 200 and will be opening with a max of 30 seating. They need 75 people to break even. They've been told, assuming rates don't rise significantly they can expect to open to 100 in Sept/Oct. All they can do in the meantime is do their bit to help reduce transmission.
The discussions they have had with the powers that be is that they will do anything necessary to avoid a new variant circumventing the vaccination program. 4000 new cases per day is still a significant number.
The current thinking is the venue will have Test and Trace, plus require evidence of a negative test with the last 24 hours. No exceptions. Until vaccine passports are a thing, they are not considering them. |
The problem with the negative test within 24 hours requirement is they are not going to be obtainable (outside certain groups, e.g. care staff) on such a regular basis. Especially full swab tests, which take a few days to process* (and cost money if you're not showing symptoms). Turns going to a venue into a major expedition, with considerable forward planning.
* Indeed, more than the 24 hour validity of the test for this purpose. [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 9:59]
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:02 - Apr 2 with 494 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:50 - Apr 2 by Guthrum |
Altho 'over' might also be a slightly presumptuous term. I very much doubt Covid-19 will be eradicated, certainly not globally. It remains a highly infectious disease. We may get periodic major flare-ups every few years or decades.
Fortunately, if that occurs in this country, it is likely to be spotted and contained quite quickly*. We hopefully wouldn't need a return to national lockdowns and other drastic measures. Tho things like temporary local restrictions or travel bans may be appropriate.
* Even before this pandemic, there existed a list of notifiable diseases which, if any were spotted in the UK had to immediately be reported. |
Yeah no way we will get zero COVID in the world no way at all.
Localised approaches to coping with flare ups much more likely than national lock downs which brings me back to my original point on COVID passports hard to see how they are dropped if flare ups etc are still part of our life and measures are needed for control. So long as the Govt are honest with us on that then fine. | | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:03 - Apr 2 with 489 views | noggin |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 08:53 - Apr 2 by chicoazul |
Private establishments can do what they want, of course. I’m not surprised nobody here thinks the slow gradual erosions of our hard won freedoms of movement and socialising over many centuries is a big deal. Like I said I knew vaccine passports would be very popular here on TWTD. I think it’s a ridiculous sham myself. Remember when loads of you were crying about people gathering on beaches last summer but we then found out there was no evidence of any viral transmission because of it? |
What are you afraid of? Do you ever make online purchases? |  |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:04 - Apr 2 with 486 views | Mookamoo |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:57 - Apr 2 by Guthrum |
The problem with the negative test within 24 hours requirement is they are not going to be obtainable (outside certain groups, e.g. care staff) on such a regular basis. Especially full swab tests, which take a few days to process* (and cost money if you're not showing symptoms). Turns going to a venue into a major expedition, with considerable forward planning.
* Indeed, more than the 24 hour validity of the test for this purpose. [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 9:59]
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They are just after a Lateral Flow test, which I know have issues, it's just about mitigating risk as much as possible.
There is a testing centre round the corner from the venue which has availability for all asymptomatic people who need a test | | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:13 - Apr 2 with 472 views | Guthrum |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:04 - Apr 2 by Mookamoo |
They are just after a Lateral Flow test, which I know have issues, it's just about mitigating risk as much as possible.
There is a testing centre round the corner from the venue which has availability for all asymptomatic people who need a test |
That makes things a lot more practicable.
Wonder how long before they start handing out (or requiring) the venues themselves to have testing equipment? | |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:18 - Apr 2 with 466 views | Guthrum |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:02 - Apr 2 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Yeah no way we will get zero COVID in the world no way at all.
Localised approaches to coping with flare ups much more likely than national lock downs which brings me back to my original point on COVID passports hard to see how they are dropped if flare ups etc are still part of our life and measures are needed for control. So long as the Govt are honest with us on that then fine. |
I don't think governments will want to continue with expensive and unpopular schemes for something which may be a significant issue only every five or ten years, perhaps as rarely as three or four times a century. | |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:19 - Apr 2 with 465 views | godalmingblue |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 08:37 - Apr 2 by WD19 |
As with your post above, ‘I haven’t got the app guv’ renders it futile. I live near and work in London and I don’t know of a single person who has got the app. |
I work in a pub, most of my clientele are slightly older and and struggle with smart phones and the app.
Was hard enough getting 1 sign in per table last year, will be impossible getting every single person to do it... | | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:19 - Apr 2 with 466 views | chicoazul |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:32 - Apr 2 by StokieBlue |
Why wouldn't they be lifted when the pandemic is declared as being over? Can you cite some evidence to show they won't be? If not then it's just baseless speculation which isn't that helpful and feeds into the conspiratorial mindset which many seemed to have developed.
SB |
It’s no more or less baseless than your supposition that it will ever be declared “over”. You really don’t like people questioning the decisions this Govt takes it may take do you. |  |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:22 - Apr 2 with 462 views | chicoazul |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:03 - Apr 2 by noggin |
What are you afraid of? Do you ever make online purchases? |
I’m not particularly afraid of anything. I just don’t enjoy our ancient liberties being taken away from us and the teeth gnashing delight those actions are being greeted with, and the trust in the authorities that have proven themselves to be generous, less than competent, recently and historically. | |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:31 - Apr 2 with 450 views | noggin |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:22 - Apr 2 by chicoazul |
I’m not particularly afraid of anything. I just don’t enjoy our ancient liberties being taken away from us and the teeth gnashing delight those actions are being greeted with, and the trust in the authorities that have proven themselves to be generous, less than competent, recently and historically. |
Which of your liberties are being taken away? | |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:45 - Apr 2 with 435 views | eireblue |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 09:36 - Apr 2 by Parky |
For the record, I have absolutely no problem with signing in to a pub, but surely it needs signing out as well? - Say I go in the pub from midday and leave at 3, but someone comes in for the evening and later tests positive, why should I have to self-isolate?
This happened to my partner last year after a 5 minute visit to Dobbies, it later transpired the person who tested positive didn’t visit until 4 hours later. This is why we no longer have the app, although it may have upgraded since. |
If you had COVID, and left the building, doesn’t mean you took all your COVID with you. |  | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:47 - Apr 2 with 433 views | footers |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:45 - Apr 2 by eireblue |
If you had COVID, and left the building, doesn’t mean you took all your COVID with you. |
Same applies to Elvis? | |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:59 - Apr 2 with 423 views | Parky |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:45 - Apr 2 by eireblue |
If you had COVID, and left the building, doesn’t mean you took all your COVID with you. |
If I left the pub before the person with COVID even entered, on the last signing in and track and trace, I’d still have been told to isolate. | | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 11:15 - Apr 2 with 408 views | StokieBlue |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:19 - Apr 2 by chicoazul |
It’s no more or less baseless than your supposition that it will ever be declared “over”. You really don’t like people questioning the decisions this Govt takes it may take do you. |
That's total rubbish, a quick reading of the board will show that I've questioned many of the decisions the government has made, I made a thread yesterday just doing that. I am certainly no supporter of this government but this is about science rather than the government.
It seems more to me that since your return you seem to not like anyone disagreeing with your stances.
The pandemic will be declared over and things will open up because there will be no other way to start up the economy.
Could you answer the question I posed to you in my previous post on what you think should actually happen rather than sniping at people all the time?
SB [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 11:17]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 11:26 - Apr 2 with 391 views | eireblue |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 10:59 - Apr 2 by Parky |
If I left the pub before the person with COVID even entered, on the last signing in and track and trace, I’d still have been told to isolate. |
Which of course is sensible.
You don’t know how the person contracted COVID.
It could have been from someone in the pub before you and the other person.
If you want to stop a pandemic, you reduce and eliminate, if possible, the amount of transmission.
You don’t know if a person that had COVID was in the pub before you, and the other person.
All you know is that a person with COVID was in that pub.
In order to minimise transmission, and be very focussed on minimising transmission, with imperfect data, the safest thing to do is ask everyone in that could potentially have come into contact with a source of COVID to isolate.
Remember you could have had COVID without any symptoms, and passed it on.
Other countries do this quite well, and have better schemes for compensating and assisting people that are isolated.
If you want to successful in stopping transmissions and ensure people don’t catch COVID, that is the better way to do it.
Just because the Government are a bunch of incompetent charlatans, it should prevent people from thinking about what is the correct thing to do, in order to assist fellow humans. | | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 11:40 - Apr 2 with 387 views | Leaky |
Having a tradesman in your house are you going to ask for proof of vaccination. Its the same as you entering a pub or restaurant. |  | | |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 11:42 - Apr 2 with 382 views | Parky |
| Is signing in really such a hardship? on 11:26 - Apr 2 by eireblue |
Which of course is sensible.
You don’t know how the person contracted COVID.
It could have been from someone in the pub before you and the other person.
If you want to stop a pandemic, you reduce and eliminate, if possible, the amount of transmission.
You don’t know if a person that had COVID was in the pub before you, and the other person.
All you know is that a person with COVID was in that pub.
In order to minimise transmission, and be very focussed on minimising transmission, with imperfect data, the safest thing to do is ask everyone in that could potentially have come into contact with a source of COVID to isolate.
Remember you could have had COVID without any symptoms, and passed it on.
Other countries do this quite well, and have better schemes for compensating and assisting people that are isolated.
If you want to successful in stopping transmissions and ensure people don’t catch COVID, that is the better way to do it.
Just because the Government are a bunch of incompetent charlatans, it should prevent people from thinking about what is the correct thing to do, in order to assist fellow humans. |
I don’t agree with that, chances are you’re never going to find out where said person caught COVID, if you’re going to start forcing people to isolate even though they’ve been nowhere near this person, you might as well have another lockdown, if he/she has been to the supermarket that week is everybody that’s been to the supermarket got to self isolate too?
This would be a lot easier if there was a working Track and Trace or whatever it’s called, but there isn’t, unfortunately. | | | |
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