| EU being silly over vaccines again 11:18 - Apr 26 with 6550 views | Pinewoodblue |
A French company , Valneva,, have failed to reach an agreement with regards to their Covid vaccine currently at phase 3 trial level.
The reason being they will not agree to all the condition the EU want to impose. Basically it is a repeat of what happened with AZ. UK government signed up for 100m doses last September and assisted financially in the development, and building of the plant in Scotland.
We have priority on order fulfillment.
https://valneva.com/press-release/valneva-switches-focus-to-bilateral-discussion
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 19:26 - Apr 26 with 1367 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 18:49 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
Any evidence that's not purely anecdotal to back any of that up?
The idea that higher education indoctrinates people to be left wing is rather bizarre. Loads of university students are studying STEM subjects these days, what is left wing about numbers and atoms and sh!t? Having spent a fair bit of time at uni myself, there is nothing inherently left wing about them as places. They are just bricks and mortar. Some politics lecturers at my uni were left wing, others were right wing, some were centrists. There's usually a mix. |
Well no (hence me saying i wasnt saying it to be true) but that's kinda my point about using education as some sort of barometer as to whether Brexit was a good idea or not.
The argument being put forward above appears to be that those who have attained a higher level of education voted to remain and those who didn't voted leave (as a rule) and that those that voted leave did so simply because either A they are a bit thick or B. They have not been educated properly and therefore didnt vote remain
If A. Well that goes back to the point I am making which is that you can't make the argument that remain was the 'smart person' choice unless you ask everyone who voted to take an IQ test because again education is not in itself evidence of intellect but merely the ability to thrive in an academic environment and so that conclusion is no less anecdotal that suggesting that univesites indoctrinate. So whilst it is true that the higher the educational attainment the less likely to vote leave you cannot say that points to the choice being split along the lines of intellect.
If B well that proves the point that actually its not about people making their own mind up about, it's about educating the people to vote the 'right' way and therefore the indoctrination argument holds.
Now again, I'm not saying B to be true I'm just trying to illustrate that using education as stick to beat leave voters with is actually a disingenuous argument.
In terms of what's leftist about atoms well nothing but I'd feel pretty confident in saying that I think if you took a poll of the voting intentions of educators you would that the split of those willing to voted Tory vs those willing to vote anything but would come out in the anything but camps favour but I'll admit I havent gone scurrying around looking for any figures because as explained above thats not actually the point I was trying to make
I can say that from my experience throughout both school and higher education I saw examples of it quite regularly but I would also say I don't think it was often intentional but simply that personality naturally comes out when teaching as it is often expressive due to a need for engagement and I would say not on the industrial scale that some would say because as I've already said I feel like its no more sensible am argument than the education/brexit statement [Post edited 26 Apr 2021 19:28]
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:03 - Apr 26 with 1326 views | Pinewoodblue |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 18:17 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
The data is already there, mate. Those with lower educational attainment were more likely to vote Brexit. Those with higher educational attainment were more likely to vote remain. That won't change as the vote has already happened.
Have you looked at the data relating to exports to the EU since we left? It's pretty bad, mate, especially for those in fishing and farming, but in other sectors too there are issues. Have you seen what's happening in Northern Ireland as well? I'm not seeing much in the way of benefits to the UK of leaving, mate, but I am seeing problems. |
I hope you are not suggesting we move to an electoral system where the value of your vote is dependent on your level of education. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:17 - Apr 26 with 1313 views | m14_blue |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:03 - Apr 26 by Pinewoodblue |
I hope you are not suggesting we move to an electoral system where the value of your vote is dependent on your level of education. |
Where have you got that from? |  | | |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:20 - Apr 26 with 1311 views | Leaky |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 18:12 - Apr 26 by factual_blue |
The intelligent part of the UK would have correctly read what was written, which was about the effect of education on voting in the 2016 referendum. |
I'm sorry, how can anyone post such long posts whilst being at work, on not, perhaps your on early retirement, on a good pension or unemployed, or like our squad skiving a living. I certainly cannot.. Perhaps that's why the left wing is predominant on this site. Some of us have to do a proper job. |  | | |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:27 - Apr 26 with 1296 views | footers |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:20 - Apr 26 by Leaky |
I'm sorry, how can anyone post such long posts whilst being at work, on not, perhaps your on early retirement, on a good pension or unemployed, or like our squad skiving a living. I certainly cannot.. Perhaps that's why the left wing is predominant on this site. Some of us have to do a proper job. |
I thought Conservatism was about pulling your socks up, getting a grip and earning your maximum potential?
Maybe you haven't worked or studied hard enough. Slacker. |  |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:41 - Apr 26 with 1270 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 19:26 - Apr 26 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Well no (hence me saying i wasnt saying it to be true) but that's kinda my point about using education as some sort of barometer as to whether Brexit was a good idea or not.
The argument being put forward above appears to be that those who have attained a higher level of education voted to remain and those who didn't voted leave (as a rule) and that those that voted leave did so simply because either A they are a bit thick or B. They have not been educated properly and therefore didnt vote remain
If A. Well that goes back to the point I am making which is that you can't make the argument that remain was the 'smart person' choice unless you ask everyone who voted to take an IQ test because again education is not in itself evidence of intellect but merely the ability to thrive in an academic environment and so that conclusion is no less anecdotal that suggesting that univesites indoctrinate. So whilst it is true that the higher the educational attainment the less likely to vote leave you cannot say that points to the choice being split along the lines of intellect.
If B well that proves the point that actually its not about people making their own mind up about, it's about educating the people to vote the 'right' way and therefore the indoctrination argument holds.
Now again, I'm not saying B to be true I'm just trying to illustrate that using education as stick to beat leave voters with is actually a disingenuous argument.
In terms of what's leftist about atoms well nothing but I'd feel pretty confident in saying that I think if you took a poll of the voting intentions of educators you would that the split of those willing to voted Tory vs those willing to vote anything but would come out in the anything but camps favour but I'll admit I havent gone scurrying around looking for any figures because as explained above thats not actually the point I was trying to make
I can say that from my experience throughout both school and higher education I saw examples of it quite regularly but I would also say I don't think it was often intentional but simply that personality naturally comes out when teaching as it is often expressive due to a need for engagement and I would say not on the industrial scale that some would say because as I've already said I feel like its no more sensible am argument than the education/brexit statement [Post edited 26 Apr 2021 19:28]
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So you think your made up argument that higher education indoctrinates people to be left wing is as valid as the idea that there is a correlation between being well-educated and being intelligent? Here is some actual evidence of the latter being true: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29911926/
I await some evidence to back up any of your claims, ideally some evidence that's not merely anecdotal. |  |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:42 - Apr 26 with 1269 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:03 - Apr 26 by Pinewoodblue |
I hope you are not suggesting we move to an electoral system where the value of your vote is dependent on your level of education. |
I hope you're not suggesting that women shouldn't be allowed to vote. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:55 - Apr 26 with 1247 views | brazil1982 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 17:45 - Apr 26 by factual_blue |
The intelligent part of the UK would have written correct English, namely 'The EU is not fit for purpose'.
And the inverse relationship between education and voting leave has been demonstrated time and time again.
So both your grammar and grasp of the facts is lacking. |
I agree. 0.03% of voters were interviewed by Ipsos, a sizeable sample size. |  | | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:05 - Apr 26 with 1236 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:55 - Apr 26 by brazil1982 |
I agree. 0.03% of voters were interviewed by Ipsos, a sizeable sample size. |
You're kind of proving the point here, friend. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:47 - Apr 26 with 1203 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:41 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
So you think your made up argument that higher education indoctrinates people to be left wing is as valid as the idea that there is a correlation between being well-educated and being intelligent? Here is some actual evidence of the latter being true: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29911926/
I await some evidence to back up any of your claims, ideally some evidence that's not merely anecdotal. |
No again you are misunderstanding my point. I am saying that both arguments are equally merritless IE neither is any sort of argument at all at least without as I say asking everyone who voted to take an IQ test or similar (because we can measure intelligence in differnt ways)
I don't disagree that education improves intelligence but that still doesn't make it follow that a lack of education makes you unintelligent and again intelligence and education are not the same thing and nor are they mutally exclusive so you cannot argue that corolating voter choice against educational attainment (which is what is implied when people put forward when that argument) is an argument for remain.
Again I am not passing comment on what degree of indoctrination there may or may not be, sorry I thought I'd been clear on that so apologies if not the case. Nor am I passing comment on the merrits of Brexit or not.
Of course a good education allows you to learn things and improve your knowledge base but so does life experience and many other things so to present that argument as evidence to support drawing that kind of corealtion is flawed, it is akin to offering an essay that shows that carrots are good for your health and then using that as proof that anyone who doesn't east carrots is therefore unhealthy well yes carrots are good for you, but sprouts, onions, kale, tomatoes and any number of other things are all healthy too and if you eat a balanced diet the lack of carrots doesn't matter. Some people don't like carrots.
The link that you have posted proves education makes people smarter and that is all, it certainly doesn't prove that lack of it makes people stupid. Not everyone who didn't go on to higher education is stupid, in fact most probabaly are not, they just learn in diffrent ways. People don't go to higher education for numerous reasons and in many cases its due to lack of access or just not getting a start in life which facilities it and honestly the drawing of that corealtion is exactly the sort of dismissive language of talking down to rather than listening to traditional Labour voters which cost Labour the last 1 maybe 2 elections and probably contributed to the brexit vote.
All v well posting links like that but you need to consider what they actually mean in the context of what we're saying instead of just seeing the false positive that unconscious bias leads you towards (Ironic as thats the kind of critical thinking one should develop at university) | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:56 - Apr 26 with 1199 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:47 - Apr 26 by BlueandTruesince82 |
No again you are misunderstanding my point. I am saying that both arguments are equally merritless IE neither is any sort of argument at all at least without as I say asking everyone who voted to take an IQ test or similar (because we can measure intelligence in differnt ways)
I don't disagree that education improves intelligence but that still doesn't make it follow that a lack of education makes you unintelligent and again intelligence and education are not the same thing and nor are they mutally exclusive so you cannot argue that corolating voter choice against educational attainment (which is what is implied when people put forward when that argument) is an argument for remain.
Again I am not passing comment on what degree of indoctrination there may or may not be, sorry I thought I'd been clear on that so apologies if not the case. Nor am I passing comment on the merrits of Brexit or not.
Of course a good education allows you to learn things and improve your knowledge base but so does life experience and many other things so to present that argument as evidence to support drawing that kind of corealtion is flawed, it is akin to offering an essay that shows that carrots are good for your health and then using that as proof that anyone who doesn't east carrots is therefore unhealthy well yes carrots are good for you, but sprouts, onions, kale, tomatoes and any number of other things are all healthy too and if you eat a balanced diet the lack of carrots doesn't matter. Some people don't like carrots.
The link that you have posted proves education makes people smarter and that is all, it certainly doesn't prove that lack of it makes people stupid. Not everyone who didn't go on to higher education is stupid, in fact most probabaly are not, they just learn in diffrent ways. People don't go to higher education for numerous reasons and in many cases its due to lack of access or just not getting a start in life which facilities it and honestly the drawing of that corealtion is exactly the sort of dismissive language of talking down to rather than listening to traditional Labour voters which cost Labour the last 1 maybe 2 elections and probably contributed to the brexit vote.
All v well posting links like that but you need to consider what they actually mean in the context of what we're saying instead of just seeing the false positive that unconscious bias leads you towards (Ironic as thats the kind of critical thinking one should develop at university) |
I'm not taking a lecture from someone who is dismissing peer reviewed literature demonstrating a clear correlation between intelligence and education, and instead repeating the same arguments whilst offering no evidence in support of them. Did your university education not teach you to use good quality sources, like peer reviewed journal articles? [Post edited 26 Apr 2021 21:57]
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:58 - Apr 26 with 1194 views | m14_blue |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:47 - Apr 26 by BlueandTruesince82 |
No again you are misunderstanding my point. I am saying that both arguments are equally merritless IE neither is any sort of argument at all at least without as I say asking everyone who voted to take an IQ test or similar (because we can measure intelligence in differnt ways)
I don't disagree that education improves intelligence but that still doesn't make it follow that a lack of education makes you unintelligent and again intelligence and education are not the same thing and nor are they mutally exclusive so you cannot argue that corolating voter choice against educational attainment (which is what is implied when people put forward when that argument) is an argument for remain.
Again I am not passing comment on what degree of indoctrination there may or may not be, sorry I thought I'd been clear on that so apologies if not the case. Nor am I passing comment on the merrits of Brexit or not.
Of course a good education allows you to learn things and improve your knowledge base but so does life experience and many other things so to present that argument as evidence to support drawing that kind of corealtion is flawed, it is akin to offering an essay that shows that carrots are good for your health and then using that as proof that anyone who doesn't east carrots is therefore unhealthy well yes carrots are good for you, but sprouts, onions, kale, tomatoes and any number of other things are all healthy too and if you eat a balanced diet the lack of carrots doesn't matter. Some people don't like carrots.
The link that you have posted proves education makes people smarter and that is all, it certainly doesn't prove that lack of it makes people stupid. Not everyone who didn't go on to higher education is stupid, in fact most probabaly are not, they just learn in diffrent ways. People don't go to higher education for numerous reasons and in many cases its due to lack of access or just not getting a start in life which facilities it and honestly the drawing of that corealtion is exactly the sort of dismissive language of talking down to rather than listening to traditional Labour voters which cost Labour the last 1 maybe 2 elections and probably contributed to the brexit vote.
All v well posting links like that but you need to consider what they actually mean in the context of what we're saying instead of just seeing the false positive that unconscious bias leads you towards (Ironic as thats the kind of critical thinking one should develop at university) |
“and honestly the drawing of that corealtion is exactly the sort of dismissive language of talking down to rather than listening to traditional Labour voters which cost Labour the last 1 maybe 2 elections and probably contributed to the brexit vote.”
You realise Herbivore was only responding to someone saying that ‘the intelligent people voted to leave’? | | | |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:01 - Apr 26 with 1190 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:58 - Apr 26 by m14_blue |
“and honestly the drawing of that corealtion is exactly the sort of dismissive language of talking down to rather than listening to traditional Labour voters which cost Labour the last 1 maybe 2 elections and probably contributed to the brexit vote.”
You realise Herbivore was only responding to someone saying that ‘the intelligent people voted to leave’? |
I'm not sure he does realise that, no. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:20 - Apr 26 with 1170 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:01 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
I'm not sure he does realise that, no. |
I do realise that.
He (assuming there sorry if wrong) responded to to something along the lines of the intelligent part of the UK voted to leave with that education has a correlation with how people voted but not in the way thay poster thought (think that was the gist)... if the OP there was suggesting that intelligence was behind people voting leave I don't think it's unreasonable for me to have assumed that the not in the way you think was the flip side of that IE that the inteliigent part of tbe UK voted remain but if I'm wrong on what you were saying my apologies, you havent corrected me and picked up the convo from there
My response was then that education/remain corealtion is not something that can be used to bash brexit voters
My point applied to both sides of that, it can't be used to support an argument that the "intelligent" part of the UK voted either leave or remain.
I'm not having a go at anyones opinion just engaging in the debate [Post edited 26 Apr 2021 22:23]
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:37 - Apr 26 with 1147 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 21:56 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
I'm not taking a lecture from someone who is dismissing peer reviewed literature demonstrating a clear correlation between intelligence and education, and instead repeating the same arguments whilst offering no evidence in support of them. Did your university education not teach you to use good quality sources, like peer reviewed journal articles? [Post edited 26 Apr 2021 21:57]
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Ok well its not a lecture you seem to have taken issue with my tone and if thats the case I apologise it wasn't my intention but in fairness your repose of
" So you think your made up argument that higher education indoctrinates people to be left wing is as valid as the idea that there is a correlation between being well-educated and being intelligent? Here is some actual evidence of the latter being true:Â https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go
I await some evidence to back up any of your claims, ideally some evidence that's not merely anecdotal"
Was at least a little sarcastic.
I am not dismissing anything, I think I quite clearly say that I agree with what it says, education makes people smarter but it does not prove that a lack of education makes people stupid, peer reviewed or not. I take no issue with what the paper asserts, I take issue with the statement that it proves that a lack of education equals a lack of intelligence because it doesn't.
My university did teach me to only present sources that actually support the argument being made in this case a lack of education means a lack of intelligence and therefore a lack of intelligence means a brexit voter. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:44 - Apr 26 with 1141 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:37 - Apr 26 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Ok well its not a lecture you seem to have taken issue with my tone and if thats the case I apologise it wasn't my intention but in fairness your repose of
" So you think your made up argument that higher education indoctrinates people to be left wing is as valid as the idea that there is a correlation between being well-educated and being intelligent? Here is some actual evidence of the latter being true:Â https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go
I await some evidence to back up any of your claims, ideally some evidence that's not merely anecdotal"
Was at least a little sarcastic.
I am not dismissing anything, I think I quite clearly say that I agree with what it says, education makes people smarter but it does not prove that a lack of education makes people stupid, peer reviewed or not. I take no issue with what the paper asserts, I take issue with the statement that it proves that a lack of education equals a lack of intelligence because it doesn't.
My university did teach me to only present sources that actually support the argument being made in this case a lack of education means a lack of intelligence and therefore a lack of intelligence means a brexit voter. |
Righto. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:51 - Apr 26 with 1134 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:44 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
Righto. |
Seriously I'm not trying to have a pop, it's just conversation isn't it.
We disagree, that's ok. I just don't think the source you quote proves your point. I don't disagree with what it says.
Happy to have a virtual handshake and move on | |
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| Well, it's clear your job doesn't require a high degree of literacy on 00:12 - Apr 27 with 1103 views | factual_blue |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 20:20 - Apr 26 by Leaky |
I'm sorry, how can anyone post such long posts whilst being at work, on not, perhaps your on early retirement, on a good pension or unemployed, or like our squad skiving a living. I certainly cannot.. Perhaps that's why the left wing is predominant on this site. Some of us have to do a proper job. |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 02:44 - Apr 27 with 1077 views | acj |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 13:35 - Apr 26 by Pinewoodblue |
The idiotic decision was to let the people decide. Can you imagine if the next manager of Town was decided by a fans vote? |
To be fair, I’d love to see who Boaty McBoatface lined up to bring in on the wings for us next season. |  |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 07:33 - Apr 27 with 1025 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 22:51 - Apr 26 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Seriously I'm not trying to have a pop, it's just conversation isn't it.
We disagree, that's ok. I just don't think the source you quote proves your point. I don't disagree with what it says.
Happy to have a virtual handshake and move on |
I think the conversation has run its course, hasn't it? You waded in claiming that education and intelligence aren't correlated, I've provided you with evidence that actually they are. You now seem to be saying that people didn't vote Brexit because they were less intelligent or remain because they are more intelligent, which is an argument I haven't made anyway.
I've pointed out the correlation. The data on the referendum shows that those with a higher level of education - and given the evidence of correlation between education and intelligence, a higher level of intelligence - were more likely to vote remain. Those with a lower level of education - and thus intelligence, given the established correlation - were more likely to vote leave. Did they vote that way because they are more or less intelligent? Who knows, all we know is that a remain vote was generally favoured by the more highly educated, more intelligent members of the electorate.
And by the way, this was all in response to a Brexit voter claiming it was leave voters who were more intelligent in the first place. Frankly I'm stunned that the usual suspects weren't on here accusing him of all sorts for implying remain voters are stupid, when it happens the other way round some on here consider it to be beyond the pale. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 08:01 - Apr 27 with 1003 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 07:33 - Apr 27 by Herbivore |
I think the conversation has run its course, hasn't it? You waded in claiming that education and intelligence aren't correlated, I've provided you with evidence that actually they are. You now seem to be saying that people didn't vote Brexit because they were less intelligent or remain because they are more intelligent, which is an argument I haven't made anyway.
I've pointed out the correlation. The data on the referendum shows that those with a higher level of education - and given the evidence of correlation between education and intelligence, a higher level of intelligence - were more likely to vote remain. Those with a lower level of education - and thus intelligence, given the established correlation - were more likely to vote leave. Did they vote that way because they are more or less intelligent? Who knows, all we know is that a remain vote was generally favoured by the more highly educated, more intelligent members of the electorate.
And by the way, this was all in response to a Brexit voter claiming it was leave voters who were more intelligent in the first place. Frankly I'm stunned that the usual suspects weren't on here accusing him of all sorts for implying remain voters are stupid, when it happens the other way round some on here consider it to be beyond the pale. |
I'm not saying education and and intelligence aren't correlated, I'm saying you can't prove prove a correlation between voting leave and a lack of intelligence which is what the response I replied to implied.
As for not making that argument what was it you meant in your in intial response to which I then responded then ? because clearly your responded to someone suggesting There was a link one way and clearly you said yes but not in the way that poster meant so again, if not supporting said posters statement and if not agreeing with the statement are you not disagreeing with it and are you not then making exactly that point IE the reverse of the OP?
My point is you can't prove a corealtion between voting leave and lacking intelligence because whilst yes can prove that education makes you smarter you can't prove that a lack of it makes you less intelligent because as I have said before many other things help develop the tools and skills that determine intelligence education is just one so simply relaying on that one thing disregards all the others despite the fact that they need to be considered to ultimately prove.
I just think you are drawing too much of a conclusions based on what that data set actually prove
Anyway I'll leave it there, good chat. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 08:12 - Apr 27 with 1000 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 08:01 - Apr 27 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I'm not saying education and and intelligence aren't correlated, I'm saying you can't prove prove a correlation between voting leave and a lack of intelligence which is what the response I replied to implied.
As for not making that argument what was it you meant in your in intial response to which I then responded then ? because clearly your responded to someone suggesting There was a link one way and clearly you said yes but not in the way that poster meant so again, if not supporting said posters statement and if not agreeing with the statement are you not disagreeing with it and are you not then making exactly that point IE the reverse of the OP?
My point is you can't prove a corealtion between voting leave and lacking intelligence because whilst yes can prove that education makes you smarter you can't prove that a lack of it makes you less intelligent because as I have said before many other things help develop the tools and skills that determine intelligence education is just one so simply relaying on that one thing disregards all the others despite the fact that they need to be considered to ultimately prove.
I just think you are drawing too much of a conclusions based on what that data set actually prove
Anyway I'll leave it there, good chat. |
A lack of education does make you less intelligent, comparatively speaking. That's what the evidence shows, people who are well-educated tend to have a higher IQ by 1-5 points for every additional year of education. Given leave voters on the whole were less well-educated - there is plenty of data to back this up - it follows that they were less intelligent than better-educated remain voters, given the established link between levels of education and levels of intelligence.
You may not like that, that's fine, but you're not really offering any counter-evidence at this point. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 09:17 - Apr 27 with 965 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 08:12 - Apr 27 by Herbivore |
A lack of education does make you less intelligent, comparatively speaking. That's what the evidence shows, people who are well-educated tend to have a higher IQ by 1-5 points for every additional year of education. Given leave voters on the whole were less well-educated - there is plenty of data to back this up - it follows that they were less intelligent than better-educated remain voters, given the established link between levels of education and levels of intelligence.
You may not like that, that's fine, but you're not really offering any counter-evidence at this point. |
Because you're asking me to prove a negative which you cant really only do in very clearly defined circumstances.
Lets take the benefits system, those that don't go onto higher education are more likely to claim benefits long term, it's not easy to navigate that system yet people do with aplomb, or say your average drug dealer again more likely to not have gone on higher education yet they run their own business (in a weird kind of way and all be it illegal) that needs intelligence.
The evidence shows that a good education goes hand in hand with strong intelligence but not that a lack of education makes you unintelligent (at least the evidence thats been provided so far)
TBH I was only playing devils advocate I'm the 1st place but I think the point stands, you can only draw half the conclusion you are trying to draw from it.
Again, good chat. No hard feelings. | |
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 09:57 - Apr 27 with 936 views | Herbivore |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 09:17 - Apr 27 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Because you're asking me to prove a negative which you cant really only do in very clearly defined circumstances.
Lets take the benefits system, those that don't go onto higher education are more likely to claim benefits long term, it's not easy to navigate that system yet people do with aplomb, or say your average drug dealer again more likely to not have gone on higher education yet they run their own business (in a weird kind of way and all be it illegal) that needs intelligence.
The evidence shows that a good education goes hand in hand with strong intelligence but not that a lack of education makes you unintelligent (at least the evidence thats been provided so far)
TBH I was only playing devils advocate I'm the 1st place but I think the point stands, you can only draw half the conclusion you are trying to draw from it.
Again, good chat. No hard feelings. |
You're creating straw men again rather than responding to what I've actually posted. I've not used the word unintelligent, you have. I've been clear that this is comparative. We know that higher levels of education are correlated with higher levels of intelligence, we also know that remain voters were, on the whole, more well-educated than leave voters. So comparatively, remain voters were more intelligent.
That doesn't mean all leave voters are unintelligent, just that on the whole and based on the evidence, leave voters are less intelligent than remain voters. Other than anecdote and speculation you've not really countered that point, and it's a point that I've only made because a leave voter claimed that leave voters were more intelligent, which is patently not true based on any appraisal of the evidence. [Post edited 27 Apr 2021 10:18]
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| EU being silly over vaccines again on 10:42 - Apr 27 with 924 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| EU being silly over vaccines again on 09:57 - Apr 27 by Herbivore |
You're creating straw men again rather than responding to what I've actually posted. I've not used the word unintelligent, you have. I've been clear that this is comparative. We know that higher levels of education are correlated with higher levels of intelligence, we also know that remain voters were, on the whole, more well-educated than leave voters. So comparatively, remain voters were more intelligent.
That doesn't mean all leave voters are unintelligent, just that on the whole and based on the evidence, leave voters are less intelligent than remain voters. Other than anecdote and speculation you've not really countered that point, and it's a point that I've only made because a leave voter claimed that leave voters were more intelligent, which is patently not true based on any appraisal of the evidence. [Post edited 27 Apr 2021 10:18]
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But your still extrapolating the information beyond what it can prove.
I absolutely accept that a education improves intelligence but that's not the same as saying a lack of.Education means a lack of intelligence, I think my carrot analogy did a good job of demonstrating why I say that. Educatiion is is not the only factor in determining intelligence either so to narrow in on that as evidence what disregarding those many other things only paints part of a picture.
I can't offer evidence to prove the negative without as I say asking everyone who voted to take an IQ test as well as several other laterally and critical thinking tests, but that doesnt make the hypothesis incorrect but I conceded the data isn't out there simply because it the tests required to produce it haven't been undertaken.
I understand why you were making the point and as I have said the OP is can not be demonstrated either.
You have proven that education makes people smarter but there are unknowns, how smart are people to begin with before that benefit, what other factors contribute to improved intelligence other than just education. You drawing a full conclusion by extension of evidence of one thing without considering (or having) a full data set to do so.
I wasn't trying to have a row, I think if you look through my posts I accept a lot of what you are saying just not to the degree you want whixh is fair enough.
I'm happy to disagree, I just enjoyed the discussion. | |
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