| They're at it again on 09:45 - Aug 21 with 646 views | Herbivore |
| They're at it again on 09:42 - Aug 21 by lowhouseblue |
the computer says all strikes are good.
your faith that you can reason with people is very touching but i'd give up if i were you. |
The irony of this coming from a bot, ffs. |  |
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| They're at it again on 09:46 - Aug 21 with 644 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 09:39 - Aug 21 by Darth_Koont |
Your conditional support for low-paid workers is very touching.
But you don’t seem to care much about them the other 364 days a year, just when you can wring your hands and have a go at unionised workers.
You’ve been indoctrinated by the right-wing media and particularly their style of rhetoric. |
Prove its conditional support. Its not. These lot give unions a bad name and hurt other causes which are worthy. I didn't read that in the papers.
You two fellas are being a little simple tbh: union = good. No matter what. And you direct the indoctrination charge at me?! Try stepping out of your bubble and see what's really happening here. |  |
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| They're at it again on 09:47 - Aug 21 with 639 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 09:42 - Aug 21 by lowhouseblue |
the computer says all strikes are good.
your faith that you can reason with people is very touching but i'd give up if i were you. |
Yeap. Enough - got work to do to. | |
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| They're at it again on 09:51 - Aug 21 with 622 views | Herbivore |
| They're at it again on 09:46 - Aug 21 by giant_stow |
Prove its conditional support. Its not. These lot give unions a bad name and hurt other causes which are worthy. I didn't read that in the papers.
You two fellas are being a little simple tbh: union = good. No matter what. And you direct the indoctrination charge at me?! Try stepping out of your bubble and see what's really happening here. |
"see what's really happening here" - ha ha! Of course, mate. You're a visionary, calling it right and seeing the big picture. Or it could be that we just don't agree with your take perhaps. | |
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| They're at it again on 09:52 - Aug 21 with 615 views | DanTheMan |
| They're at it again on 09:33 - Aug 21 by giant_stow |
Either you're too indoctrinated to think outside your box, or you're having trouble comprehending what I'm writing.
I'll leave you with one last point. If this strike goes ahead, who will be the ones who have no choice but to struggle in? Who's usually in the best position to work at home, or work flexi-time and come in another day instead? It's not the shop workers, cleaners or service people on london living wage (if they're lucky). |
You could say that about any public sector role though. Sure the optics aren't great but having done a little reading about this situation now, their grievance isn't unreasonable, especially given it's not to do with pay.
Also just a note, calling people indoctrinated for not agreeing with you is a little silly. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 9:54]
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| They're at it again on 09:53 - Aug 21 with 605 views | Darth_Koont |
| They're at it again on 09:37 - Aug 21 by giant_stow |
I know you think I'm a c@nt Darth, but at least reply to what I've written: I don't use the tube. I'm thinking of others who do. I have no horse in this race.
Maybe its hard for you to comprehend someone giving a sh1t about something that doesn't effect them. |
Incredible. Most things I give a sh1t about, particularly in politics, don’t directly affect me. Although a fairer society and the better off paying more for it would “hurt” me materially.
But you’re right. I am selfishly looking out for my own emotional well-being, letting my empathy run free and greedily indulging myself on questions of right and wrong.
When all along the real victims are fragile, small-minded defenders of the status quo like you. |  |
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| They're at it again on 09:54 - Aug 21 with 599 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 09:51 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
"see what's really happening here" - ha ha! Of course, mate. You're a visionary, calling it right and seeing the big picture. Or it could be that we just don't agree with your take perhaps. |
Come on herbie, you're better than lobbing these little digs over - this isn't proper debate. | |
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| They're at it again on 09:57 - Aug 21 with 597 views | pointofblue |
| They're at it again on 09:52 - Aug 21 by DanTheMan |
You could say that about any public sector role though. Sure the optics aren't great but having done a little reading about this situation now, their grievance isn't unreasonable, especially given it's not to do with pay.
Also just a note, calling people indoctrinated for not agreeing with you is a little silly. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 9:54]
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In fairness, in relation to the final sentence, the accusation is flung both ways on here.
The strike has been suspended anyway.
https://www.itv.com/news/london/2021-08-19/tube-passengers-warned-of-severe-disr |  |
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| They're at it again on 10:00 - Aug 21 with 583 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 09:52 - Aug 21 by DanTheMan |
You could say that about any public sector role though. Sure the optics aren't great but having done a little reading about this situation now, their grievance isn't unreasonable, especially given it's not to do with pay.
Also just a note, calling people indoctrinated for not agreeing with you is a little silly. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 9:54]
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Dan when I repeatedly state my case in a reasonable manner, but people only read past that and call me a union hater, or state that I'm just pissed off that I can;t get a tube, what other answer is there? If the chaps addressed my point without calling me names, there wouldn;t be any need to question if they're just too indoctrinated to read what's written.
Fair enough if you believe their grievance is real and justified. Obviously I disagree. Its a roster issue brought about because an employer is out of cash, in turn because no one's using that service anymore. In any other industry that would mean redundancies - all these people are being asked for is flexibility after a long run of improved wages and conditions.
If they all took a small wage cut (as has happened in many industries recently) then TFL could employ more drivers with no need to change the conditions. They'd still be very well paid. | |
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| They're at it again on 10:05 - Aug 21 with 569 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 09:53 - Aug 21 by Darth_Koont |
Incredible. Most things I give a sh1t about, particularly in politics, don’t directly affect me. Although a fairer society and the better off paying more for it would “hurt” me materially.
But you’re right. I am selfishly looking out for my own emotional well-being, letting my empathy run free and greedily indulging myself on questions of right and wrong.
When all along the real victims are fragile, small-minded defenders of the status quo like you. |
you really are a weird fellow. | |
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| They're at it again on 10:07 - Aug 21 with 560 views | thebooks |
| They're at it again on 09:23 - Aug 21 by giant_stow |
Don't you see!? I am punching up! At a small self-interested group which holds millions of other often less-well off people to ransom. regularly.
And that's despite their industry being bailed out... in principal, it reminds me of another group we all moaned about.
Have you read the papers lately? They don't complain about a lack of solidarity. |
Man, of all the groups you could “punch up” at, you choose [checks notes] the people who drive the trains that get people around London.
You can’t think of one other group/thing that might cause the cost of living in London to increase more than tube drivers? |  | | |
| They're at it again on 10:08 - Aug 21 with 557 views | Darth_Koont |
| They're at it again on 10:05 - Aug 21 by giant_stow |
you really are a weird fellow. |
Thanks! That means a lot. | |
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| They're at it again on 10:26 - Aug 21 with 522 views | brazil1982 |
| They're at it again on 22:20 - Aug 20 by Juggsy |
I left the RAF after 30 years and became a train driver on the Tyne & Wear metro. Having never been unionised before in the military I initially found the concept bemusing, but have now seen first hand the power of unions to uphold procedures and standards as well as holding companies accountable for their treatment of drivers (any problem automatically gets blamed on the driver!)
On the subject of train driving, it is a ridiculously hard and brutal career path to get into and once there you have to know everything about your system, the trains, and how to deal with any situation that passengers frequently create. The shift times are awful, can do a 9 hour shift with one 40 minute break and a 4.5 hour drive needs 100% concentration as there are stops every 2 minutes. I’ll admit it’s a well paid job but it’s open to anyone who can make it through the application, interview, psychometric testing, medical and subsequent training (8 months intensive on my system)
Stating Train drivers aren’t working class is a ridiculous statement. |
Its not possible to apply for a London underground train driver unless you are already employed by them, ie station attendant. |  | | |
| They're at it again on 11:33 - Aug 21 with 456 views | Darth_Koont |
| They're at it again on 10:26 - Aug 21 by brazil1982 |
Its not possible to apply for a London underground train driver unless you are already employed by them, ie station attendant. |
Makes sense. Why jeopardise existing jobs by bringing people in from the outside? | |
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| They're at it again on 11:57 - Aug 21 with 425 views | J2BLUE |
| They're at it again on 08:56 - Aug 21 by giant_stow |
I think the jubilee line doesn't and that's not really even new anymore. They just make that option more attractive.
The balance of opinion seems to be against what I'm saying, so I'll shut it after clarifying a couple of things
I think I'm speaking out against self-interest basically and a lack of acknowledgement from drivers that they have a good thing going, or a willingness to help out. Against a backdrop of pandemic, joblessness and financial bailouts to keep their trade running, I find it sad that they dig in rather than chip in.
It all seems ironically indicative of Thatcher's society-less world, which seems strange coming from what calls itself the left.
Real 'community' or care for others would see them accept their privilege and pipe down for the greater good.
J2 asked what I do. I knock up websites and keep them running as a freelancer and surprisingly often perhaps, that means practising what I preach above, so please be assured, I'm not asking them to do anything other than what I demand of myself.
Anyway, just wanted to explain that this isn't some hatred of the left. It's actually a complaint that they seem free of any sense of solidairy with the many less well off londoners who would be screwed over by their strike. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 8:58]
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I like you ullaa. I think you're similar to me politically rather than a lefty.
I asked what you do not to try and set you up but because I think it makes a difference how you see things. I assume, as a freelancer, you work from home? I think that makes a hell of a difference. Self employed and working from home is night and day compared to working for an employer who are trying to change your job for the worse.
I did a crap job I hated for an employer where I was treated like sh1t and on crap money.
I now do a job I like for an employer who treats us really well and pay good money. All from the comfort of my home office.
I just think it's sometimes easy to lose perspective when you aren't in the situation the workers are in. |  |
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| They're at it again on 13:11 - Aug 21 with 357 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| They're at it again on 23:07 - Aug 20 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
Not sure what part of my post suggested to you that tube drivers are not working class. It is just a pity that trade unions do not work hard enough to make lives better for those earning much less than tube drivers. Most minimum wage folk are not given the backing/help they deserve by their respective unions. |
Most people on minimum wage are not in unions, that's why they're on the minimum wage..... |  |
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