| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. 18:16 - Sep 9 with 12891 views | Paddy39 |
We should have a minutes silence on Saturday to remember 9-11. Many English people lost their lives in the twin towers that day as well. 20yrs ago. |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 07:31 - Sep 10 with 1578 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 07:18 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
…that the building went into free fall collapse 8 hours after WTC 2 fell due to fire caused by falling debris? That’s the official explanation. Up to you whether you think that’s plausible or not.
26 minutes after WTC1 fell a sample of dust was collected. In that dust was 0.086 microgrammes of iron (steal carbon). In building demolition, levels of iron deposits typically register at 0.006 for the same sample size. The only way to explain that enormous increase is that the iron was either liquidated or it vaporised. Iron only liquidates or vaporises at extremely hot temperatures. To liquidise iron, temperatures of 1500 degrees; vaporising it takes another 1000 degrees more. The official NIST report claims the fires in the building burnt at 1000 degrees, which is no way near hot enough. The only consistent material and process to get iron to melt at the right temperature that quickly is thermitic reaction. Thermite was found in deposits at the bottom of all towers. Thermite is a consistent material used in controlled demolition.
I’m not arguing one way or the other. However, the public is owed a logical explanation to disprove the science. |
The thing is, this wasn't your ordinary "building demolition".
Also, yes I think it's plausible that a skyscraper could collapse 8 hours after being hit by a passenger jet. |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 07:37 - Sep 10 with 1571 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
As is usual with any suggestions of a minute's silence, there are people moaning about it. Personally I don't understand why it irks them so much. I'm more than happy to be quiet for a minute out of respect. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| [Redacted] on 07:40 - Sep 10 with 1567 views | victorywilhappen |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 07:18 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
…that the building went into free fall collapse 8 hours after WTC 2 fell due to fire caused by falling debris? That’s the official explanation. Up to you whether you think that’s plausible or not.
26 minutes after WTC1 fell a sample of dust was collected. In that dust was 0.086 microgrammes of iron (steal carbon). In building demolition, levels of iron deposits typically register at 0.006 for the same sample size. The only way to explain that enormous increase is that the iron was either liquidated or it vaporised. Iron only liquidates or vaporises at extremely hot temperatures. To liquidise iron, temperatures of 1500 degrees; vaporising it takes another 1000 degrees more. The official NIST report claims the fires in the building burnt at 1000 degrees, which is no way near hot enough. The only consistent material and process to get iron to melt at the right temperature that quickly is thermitic reaction. Thermite was found in deposits at the bottom of all towers. Thermite is a consistent material used in controlled demolition.
I’m not arguing one way or the other. However, the public is owed a logical explanation to disprove the science. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:11 - Sep 10 with 1517 views | Keaneish |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 07:31 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The thing is, this wasn't your ordinary "building demolition".
Also, yes I think it's plausible that a skyscraper could collapse 8 hours after being hit by a passenger jet. |
…that’s the point, WTC 7 wasn’t hit by a passenger jet. |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:21 - Sep 10 with 1502 views | Keaneish |
That’s such a terrible article pulled together with a huge chasm of scientific argument missing on either side of the debate.
I’ll leave this thread as it is now given this is the football thread. | |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:21 - Sep 10 with 1501 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Very interesting, thanks. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:25 - Sep 10 with 1499 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:11 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
…that’s the point, WTC 7 wasn’t hit by a passenger jet. |
FFS, it was hit by debris from the other buildings WHICH WERE HIT BY A PASSENGER JET.
Yes, I can still see why it might collapse. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:27 - Sep 10 with 1491 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:21 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
That’s such a terrible article pulled together with a huge chasm of scientific argument missing on either side of the debate.
I’ll leave this thread as it is now given this is the football thread. |
You ask for evidence, VWH gives you evidence, and you just dismiss it and run away. Brilliant. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:31 - Sep 10 with 1485 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
"conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks."
Surely there's easier and less dramatic ways of getting rid of your evidence?! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:36 - Sep 10 with 1473 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 20:00 - Sep 9 by Illinoisblue |
And regarding national events, think there was a minutes silence in tribute to the Dunblane victims. |
Every time I read something or watch a documentary about Dunblane it makes me genuinely feel ill.
Can’t imagine people seeing that unfold on the news. Just about the sickest, most disturbing event I can think of. Awful. |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:45 - Sep 10 with 1452 views | Keaneish |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:27 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You ask for evidence, VWH gives you evidence, and you just dismiss it and run away. Brilliant. |
If you read my post, you’d see I replied saying that article is tosh as it doesn’t have any scientific detail on either side of the debate, it should analyse the science, not the narrative. I’m not running away, ive posted a lot, yet, as ever, there’s lazy article posting and emotional responses surfacing not rooted in any logical scientific argument.
If you’re happy believing WTC 7 sustained free fall collapse nearly 8 hours after the event as debris triggered fires then that’s your discretion. Id argue that’s completely illogical and deeply flawed given no building in the history of architecture has sustained free fall collapse from fire yet three happen simultaneously in the space of 8 hours, the last without any hint of aviation fuel as an incendiary. | |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:56 - Sep 10 with 1431 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:45 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
If you read my post, you’d see I replied saying that article is tosh as it doesn’t have any scientific detail on either side of the debate, it should analyse the science, not the narrative. I’m not running away, ive posted a lot, yet, as ever, there’s lazy article posting and emotional responses surfacing not rooted in any logical scientific argument.
If you’re happy believing WTC 7 sustained free fall collapse nearly 8 hours after the event as debris triggered fires then that’s your discretion. Id argue that’s completely illogical and deeply flawed given no building in the history of architecture has sustained free fall collapse from fire yet three happen simultaneously in the space of 8 hours, the last without any hint of aviation fuel as an incendiary. |
Yes I read your post. Repeating it doesn't make it any better. The article is FULL of scientific, and logical, detail. Have you even read it? Try debating some of the specifics mention rather than just branding the whole thing as "lazy" and "tosh" without backing any of that up.
As for WTC7 - how on earth is it "completely illogical"? Two massive passenger jets just hit buildings right next to it - something unprecedented "in the history of architecture."
Also, I very much doubt "no building in the history of architecture has sustained free fall collapse from fire."
EDIT: A quick google search and I've found one already:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasco_Building [Post edited 10 Sep 2021 9:02]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:19 - Sep 10 with 1404 views | Herbivore |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:45 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
If you read my post, you’d see I replied saying that article is tosh as it doesn’t have any scientific detail on either side of the debate, it should analyse the science, not the narrative. I’m not running away, ive posted a lot, yet, as ever, there’s lazy article posting and emotional responses surfacing not rooted in any logical scientific argument.
If you’re happy believing WTC 7 sustained free fall collapse nearly 8 hours after the event as debris triggered fires then that’s your discretion. Id argue that’s completely illogical and deeply flawed given no building in the history of architecture has sustained free fall collapse from fire yet three happen simultaneously in the space of 8 hours, the last without any hint of aviation fuel as an incendiary. |
It's not the only steel structure skyscraper to have collapsed because of fire. Dollers has posted one example and here is another: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edif%C3%ADcio_Wilton_Paes_de_Almeida?wprov=sfla1 |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:20 - Sep 10 with 1398 views | Keaneish |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:56 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yes I read your post. Repeating it doesn't make it any better. The article is FULL of scientific, and logical, detail. Have you even read it? Try debating some of the specifics mention rather than just branding the whole thing as "lazy" and "tosh" without backing any of that up.
As for WTC7 - how on earth is it "completely illogical"? Two massive passenger jets just hit buildings right next to it - something unprecedented "in the history of architecture."
Also, I very much doubt "no building in the history of architecture has sustained free fall collapse from fire."
EDIT: A quick google search and I've found one already:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasco_Building [Post edited 10 Sep 2021 9:02]
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Er…
If you read all my posts, they are the points which contradict that article. And, as I’ve said, that article doesn’t present a balanced argument which makes it completely one-sided and quite frankly, sh*t. Look at the way the title completes sets up its position, “conspiracy this, conspiracy that..”
Disprove the science, that’s the point - the NIST fell woefully short of even putting the right data into their modelling.
I see you’re getting emotional. Maybe do some more research on this rather than relying on supposition that debris can cause a building to collapse into its own footprint!! | |
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| [Redacted] on 09:28 - Sep 10 with 1380 views | victorywilhappen |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:20 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
Er…
If you read all my posts, they are the points which contradict that article. And, as I’ve said, that article doesn’t present a balanced argument which makes it completely one-sided and quite frankly, sh*t. Look at the way the title completes sets up its position, “conspiracy this, conspiracy that..”
Disprove the science, that’s the point - the NIST fell woefully short of even putting the right data into their modelling.
I see you’re getting emotional. Maybe do some more research on this rather than relying on supposition that debris can cause a building to collapse into its own footprint!! |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:29 - Sep 10 with 1376 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:20 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
Er…
If you read all my posts, they are the points which contradict that article. And, as I’ve said, that article doesn’t present a balanced argument which makes it completely one-sided and quite frankly, sh*t. Look at the way the title completes sets up its position, “conspiracy this, conspiracy that..”
Disprove the science, that’s the point - the NIST fell woefully short of even putting the right data into their modelling.
I see you’re getting emotional. Maybe do some more research on this rather than relying on supposition that debris can cause a building to collapse into its own footprint!! |
You haven't disproved the science as far as I can see, and there is far more detail over many more allegations than you have addressed. The article tackles known conspiracy theories (hence the “conspiracy this, conspiracy that..” narrative) and gives logical scientific explanations for each one - and with citations. A lot of what you've posted isn't.
You've also failed to address that me and Herbs have - in seconds - found TWO buildings which have collapsed due to a fire. I like how you just ignore that bit and then throw in some nonsense about me getting emotional to further deflect. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:33 - Sep 10 with 1362 views | Blue_Order |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 08:45 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
If you read my post, you’d see I replied saying that article is tosh as it doesn’t have any scientific detail on either side of the debate, it should analyse the science, not the narrative. I’m not running away, ive posted a lot, yet, as ever, there’s lazy article posting and emotional responses surfacing not rooted in any logical scientific argument.
If you’re happy believing WTC 7 sustained free fall collapse nearly 8 hours after the event as debris triggered fires then that’s your discretion. Id argue that’s completely illogical and deeply flawed given no building in the history of architecture has sustained free fall collapse from fire yet three happen simultaneously in the space of 8 hours, the last without any hint of aviation fuel as an incendiary. |
The buildings didn’t collapse at free fall speed. It’s demonstrably not true and you only need to look at a photograph of the collapse to see that. |  | | |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:34 - Sep 10 with 1365 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:20 - Sep 10 by Keaneish |
Er…
If you read all my posts, they are the points which contradict that article. And, as I’ve said, that article doesn’t present a balanced argument which makes it completely one-sided and quite frankly, sh*t. Look at the way the title completes sets up its position, “conspiracy this, conspiracy that..”
Disprove the science, that’s the point - the NIST fell woefully short of even putting the right data into their modelling.
I see you’re getting emotional. Maybe do some more research on this rather than relying on supposition that debris can cause a building to collapse into its own footprint!! |
As someone who was there on the day, you are talking absolute tosh. I know what I saw.
I saw a 767 hit the corner of WTC2 and I saw body parts on the street. Everyone knows the rest.
I know WTC7 was well ablaze and severely damaged, whether it pancaked or whether it was pulled is irrelevant, no one died in that collapse, it had been evacuated 20 minute earlier.
I don't think we should hold a minutes silence, none of the people I met and became friends with that day would think we in the UK should either. I don't want anyone's pity but I came out of that whole thing with some deep mental scars, and I consider myself lucky on that basis.
But its the lack of empathy from people like yourself I find disgusting. Send me a fully credited, journaled and peer reviewed paper on this science and I'm prepared to engage with you, instead of your armchair studying of the evidence.
But you won't will you? And yes, I am getting emotional. |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:40 - Sep 10 with 1337 views | Herbivore |
He's pretty clueless on that as well and similarly obnoxious. | |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:42 - Sep 10 with 1333 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
IMO we should not hold a minutes silence for an event which happened 20 years ago far away in another country.
The minutes silence should be extremely rare else it loses its gravitas.
We might have it when one of our former players dies (Paul Mariner) or for the death of a major national figure (Prince Philip) or for a major national tragedy (Greenfel Tower fire). And, occasionally, for a major international incident such as the 11/9 attacks. Not for any of the anniversaries. |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:58 - Sep 10 with 1301 views | Keaneish |
Yeah I saw this. This was recent, we’re commenting on 2001. At that point in time, it had never happened, yet three all happened in the space of 8 hours. | |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 10:01 - Sep 10 with 1296 views | bluelagos |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 09:34 - Sep 10 by Cheltenham_Blue |
As someone who was there on the day, you are talking absolute tosh. I know what I saw.
I saw a 767 hit the corner of WTC2 and I saw body parts on the street. Everyone knows the rest.
I know WTC7 was well ablaze and severely damaged, whether it pancaked or whether it was pulled is irrelevant, no one died in that collapse, it had been evacuated 20 minute earlier.
I don't think we should hold a minutes silence, none of the people I met and became friends with that day would think we in the UK should either. I don't want anyone's pity but I came out of that whole thing with some deep mental scars, and I consider myself lucky on that basis.
But its the lack of empathy from people like yourself I find disgusting. Send me a fully credited, journaled and peer reviewed paper on this science and I'm prepared to engage with you, instead of your armchair studying of the evidence.
But you won't will you? And yes, I am getting emotional. |
"But its the lack of empathy from people like yourself I find disgusting. Send me a fully credited, journaled and peer reviewed paper on this science and I'm prepared to engage with you, instead of your armchair studying of the evidence. "
Of course he won't because there are none. People who fall for conspiracy theories or worse, who peddle them have a desire to feel important, as if they somehow have mastered something the rest of us failed to grasp. Sadly for them they are just regurgitating a pile of made up nonsense as evidenced by the lack of a peer reviewed paper.
I'd challenge you (and others) on one point, why engage with someone like that? You are unlikely to change their mind, but highly likely to get stressed. Idiots are going to idiot unfortunately.
Why give them the debate and authority they desire any more than you would a flat earther?
Trust the next couple of days isn't too stressful for you, sure there will be lots of triggers given the inevitable media coverage. |  |
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| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 10:03 - Sep 10 with 1284 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Remembering 9-11 with our American owners. on 10:01 - Sep 10 by bluelagos |
"But its the lack of empathy from people like yourself I find disgusting. Send me a fully credited, journaled and peer reviewed paper on this science and I'm prepared to engage with you, instead of your armchair studying of the evidence. "
Of course he won't because there are none. People who fall for conspiracy theories or worse, who peddle them have a desire to feel important, as if they somehow have mastered something the rest of us failed to grasp. Sadly for them they are just regurgitating a pile of made up nonsense as evidenced by the lack of a peer reviewed paper.
I'd challenge you (and others) on one point, why engage with someone like that? You are unlikely to change their mind, but highly likely to get stressed. Idiots are going to idiot unfortunately.
Why give them the debate and authority they desire any more than you would a flat earther?
Trust the next couple of days isn't too stressful for you, sure there will be lots of triggers given the inevitable media coverage. |
True enough. This one just made me angry.
I avoid the telly as much as possible on these kind of 'year' anniversaries. But its impossible to evade it completely. Thank you. | |
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