| Unpopular opinion 22:52 - Dec 5 with 4586 views | ITFC_96 |
Cook was a worse manager for us than Lambert. |  | | |  |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:18 - Dec 6 with 1564 views | Herbivore |
| Unpopular opinion on 07:49 - Dec 6 by chicoazul |
This is what I’m worried about. There is room for things to get worse. |
Different regime now though, hopefully they have an idea of the kind of manager/head coach that fits with what they want to build and will appoint someone who fits that bill. I said in another thread that players and teams, in my opinion, have a floor as well as a ceiling and this squad in League 1 has been performing pretty close to its floor under Cook. The scope for things to get worse looks limited to me. |  |
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| Unpopular opinion on 08:21 - Dec 6 with 1558 views | Herbivore |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:17 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
Gmpf.
Thanks Rich. |
Did you spot any bedsheets or banners calling for Cook to be sacked? I can't say I've seen any. Not even been any chanting for him to go in the ground. The very worst he's experienced is a few boos after recent sh!te performances. Your narrative about the fans is an absolute mile off. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 08:37 - Dec 6 with 1538 views | Darth_Koont |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:21 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
Did you spot any bedsheets or banners calling for Cook to be sacked? I can't say I've seen any. Not even been any chanting for him to go in the ground. The very worst he's experienced is a few boos after recent sh!te performances. Your narrative about the fans is an absolute mile off. |
‘Course not. As I said, it felt “a bit Bedsheet” in this much more online era.
Stepping back, there’s an interesting question about how we have managed expectation over the past 20 years. I think it’s generally been more of a hindrance than a help. Like a Newcastle of the lower leagues. But at the same time we need ambition and shouldn’t be patient to a fault.
It’s a conundrum for us and other clubs who have established a lower level and want to recover. It’s not particularly surprising that clubs who are “happier to be here” managed to build better and higher, like Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley, Swansea and Brighton in recent years. But how do we get that mentality and upward mobility? Hopefully by having the right structure in place which again hopefully we’re seeing now. |  |
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| Unpopular opinion on 08:47 - Dec 6 with 1508 views | Herbivore |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:37 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
‘Course not. As I said, it felt “a bit Bedsheet” in this much more online era.
Stepping back, there’s an interesting question about how we have managed expectation over the past 20 years. I think it’s generally been more of a hindrance than a help. Like a Newcastle of the lower leagues. But at the same time we need ambition and shouldn’t be patient to a fault.
It’s a conundrum for us and other clubs who have established a lower level and want to recover. It’s not particularly surprising that clubs who are “happier to be here” managed to build better and higher, like Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley, Swansea and Brighton in recent years. But how do we get that mentality and upward mobility? Hopefully by having the right structure in place which again hopefully we’re seeing now. |
I completely disagree regarding fan expectations. We're in League 1, the only sides in recent times who have come down and made a worse fist of it than us have been ones who have gone into administration or otherwise been total basket cases. To expect us to meaningfully challenge for promotion out of this league is not having unreasonably high expectations.
In the Championship it was a bit different, I don't think people thought we had a divine right to be challenging at the top end of the table, although that was always the aspiration. And that's fair enough. The problem was a lack of strategy to make us competitive when we had a comparatively small budget. Mick managed it but havinga good manager will only take you so far, it's not in itself a sustainable strategy.
Cook in many ways is a typical ME appointment and probably doesn't fit well with what the club is looking to become. That would have been fine if he was delivering but he wasn't. And the criticism of him has been pretty mild and totally justified, imo. It's only those who insisted we were on the way up in the face of much evidence to the contrary that couldn't understand the criticism. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 08:54 - Dec 6 with 1496 views | Darth_Koont |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:47 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
I completely disagree regarding fan expectations. We're in League 1, the only sides in recent times who have come down and made a worse fist of it than us have been ones who have gone into administration or otherwise been total basket cases. To expect us to meaningfully challenge for promotion out of this league is not having unreasonably high expectations.
In the Championship it was a bit different, I don't think people thought we had a divine right to be challenging at the top end of the table, although that was always the aspiration. And that's fair enough. The problem was a lack of strategy to make us competitive when we had a comparatively small budget. Mick managed it but havinga good manager will only take you so far, it's not in itself a sustainable strategy.
Cook in many ways is a typical ME appointment and probably doesn't fit well with what the club is looking to become. That would have been fine if he was delivering but he wasn't. And the criticism of him has been pretty mild and totally justified, imo. It's only those who insisted we were on the way up in the face of much evidence to the contrary that couldn't understand the criticism. |
Hmmm. Feels very much like the same discussion to me. We always expect to be higher.
But that expectation can only be based on doing the right things to get higher. As clubs without those automatic expectations have proven.
If that’s the structure in place and we’re justifying expectation then that’s great. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 08:59 - Dec 6 with 1479 views | Herbivore |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:54 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
Hmmm. Feels very much like the same discussion to me. We always expect to be higher.
But that expectation can only be based on doing the right things to get higher. As clubs without those automatic expectations have proven.
If that’s the structure in place and we’re justifying expectation then that’s great. |
We should expect to be higher at this level. Look at the performance of other sides who have come down compared to ours, in the last few years only Wigan and Bolton have done worse than us and they were an absolute mess. This league isn't very good, we don't have to be a City or a Liverpool to be competitive. We were pissing the league for quarter of a season under Lambert just by playing 4-4-2, keeping it simple, and having a little bit of quality compared to other sides at this level. A very basic Rotherham side is able to get out of this league at the first time of asking every time. A bang average Wycombe side that we trounced is well in the promotion hunt. Expecting us to be up there is not remotely unreasonable no matter how much you say it is. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 09:03 - Dec 6 with 1473 views | chicoazul |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:54 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
Hmmm. Feels very much like the same discussion to me. We always expect to be higher.
But that expectation can only be based on doing the right things to get higher. As clubs without those automatic expectations have proven.
If that’s the structure in place and we’re justifying expectation then that’s great. |
But that expectation can only be based on doing the right things to get higher.
Buying an expensive new squad? Having an experienced manager with an track record of success? Assembling a complete back room team? |  |
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| Unpopular opinion on 09:08 - Dec 6 with 1457 views | Darth_Koont |
| Unpopular opinion on 09:03 - Dec 6 by chicoazul |
But that expectation can only be based on doing the right things to get higher.
Buying an expensive new squad? Having an experienced manager with an track record of success? Assembling a complete back room team? |
Yes.
Expecting all that plus the new footballing and operational management to hit the ground running is where we possibly start doing the wrong thing. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 09:12 - Dec 6 with 1444 views | Herbivore |
| Unpopular opinion on 09:08 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
Yes.
Expecting all that plus the new footballing and operational management to hit the ground running is where we possibly start doing the wrong thing. |
Nobody expected us to hit the ground running. But there's a large area of performance between hitting the ground running and starting as poorly as we've done. And the trend in performances and results has been downward in recent weeks, which is the opposite of what the patient crew were saying we should expect. Despite your protestations, Town fans tend to be patient but after 9 months of underperformance there needs to be evidence that things will improve and that has been lacking. I really don't think Cook can have any complaints. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 09:12 - Dec 6 with 1445 views | Darth_Koont |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:59 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
We should expect to be higher at this level. Look at the performance of other sides who have come down compared to ours, in the last few years only Wigan and Bolton have done worse than us and they were an absolute mess. This league isn't very good, we don't have to be a City or a Liverpool to be competitive. We were pissing the league for quarter of a season under Lambert just by playing 4-4-2, keeping it simple, and having a little bit of quality compared to other sides at this level. A very basic Rotherham side is able to get out of this league at the first time of asking every time. A bang average Wycombe side that we trounced is well in the promotion hunt. Expecting us to be up there is not remotely unreasonable no matter how much you say it is. |
I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying.
Of course pretty much any manager or team or club can get results at times. It’s about maintaining and building from that where you need something more structured and solid. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 09:17 - Dec 6 with 1426 views | Darth_Koont |
| Unpopular opinion on 09:12 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
Nobody expected us to hit the ground running. But there's a large area of performance between hitting the ground running and starting as poorly as we've done. And the trend in performances and results has been downward in recent weeks, which is the opposite of what the patient crew were saying we should expect. Despite your protestations, Town fans tend to be patient but after 9 months of underperformance there needs to be evidence that things will improve and that has been lacking. I really don't think Cook can have any complaints. |
I expected nothing. I wanted to see more. And while results dropped off we were a Sunderland loss that should have been a comfortable win from at least maintaining a level.
Of course, it wasn’t where we wanted to be. And while Cook can’t have any complaints, it still felt too early for me. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 09:19 - Dec 6 with 1417 views | PJH |
I don't see it as an unpopular opinion.
It is logically and statistically correct, it is also my opinion.
Paul Lambert is now officially the third worst manager in ITFC history in my list.
Keane is up to fourth worst. |  | | |
| Unpopular opinion on 09:25 - Dec 6 with 1398 views | Herbivore |
| Unpopular opinion on 09:17 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
I expected nothing. I wanted to see more. And while results dropped off we were a Sunderland loss that should have been a comfortable win from at least maintaining a level.
Of course, it wasn’t where we wanted to be. And while Cook can’t have any complaints, it still felt too early for me. |
Fair enough. Even I was prepared to give him the next 3 games to see if the trajectory could be turned, at the same time it sounds like Saturday was another very flat performance and there's been too many of those post Wycombe when we really should have been looking to kick on. We move on. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 09:26 - Dec 6 with 1395 views | longtimefan |
| Unpopular opinion on 09:19 - Dec 6 by PJH |
I don't see it as an unpopular opinion.
It is logically and statistically correct, it is also my opinion.
Paul Lambert is now officially the third worst manager in ITFC history in my list.
Keane is up to fourth worst. |
And so it came to be. PJH has spoken. | | | |
| Unpopular opinion on 09:36 - Dec 6 with 1387 views | BlueBlood90 |
I'd disagree purely because Cook only had nine months whereas Lambert had three years. Although I'm not sure Cook would've done any better if given more time. I personally think he relied heavily on his backroom staff in previous jobs and got found out here with the inexperienced pals he brought in to do that job. |  |
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| Unpopular opinion on 10:14 - Dec 6 with 1359 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Unpopular opinion on 08:37 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
‘Course not. As I said, it felt “a bit Bedsheet” in this much more online era.
Stepping back, there’s an interesting question about how we have managed expectation over the past 20 years. I think it’s generally been more of a hindrance than a help. Like a Newcastle of the lower leagues. But at the same time we need ambition and shouldn’t be patient to a fault.
It’s a conundrum for us and other clubs who have established a lower level and want to recover. It’s not particularly surprising that clubs who are “happier to be here” managed to build better and higher, like Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley, Swansea and Brighton in recent years. But how do we get that mentality and upward mobility? Hopefully by having the right structure in place which again hopefully we’re seeing now. |
You think our expectation levels for the last 20 years have been like Newcastles? Wtf??! |  |
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| Unpopular opinion on 10:17 - Dec 6 with 1345 views | Beckets |
I certainly think that he can be added to the runners and riders in the worst ever manager race. A field of perhaps 5 all appointed by Evans. |  | | |
| Unpopular opinion on 10:18 - Dec 6 with 1345 views | Darth_Koont |
| Unpopular opinion on 10:14 - Dec 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
You think our expectation levels for the last 20 years have been like Newcastles? Wtf??! |
Sigh. I’m getting a massive sense of deja vu here.
Read the context and then tell me what you disagree with and why. Otherwise, we’ll just be wasting each other’s time again. | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 10:25 - Dec 6 with 1323 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Unpopular opinion on 10:18 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
Sigh. I’m getting a massive sense of deja vu here.
Read the context and then tell me what you disagree with and why. Otherwise, we’ll just be wasting each other’s time again. |
I have no idea what the context is honestly, it’s a bizarre comment
We have been one of the most patient clubs in the football league for the last 20 years, despite zero success and very rarely challenging at the top end. Its only since coming down to the League One that the expectation levels have risen, and rightly so given that other clubs of our size have made relatively light work of getting back up. Much the same as Newcastle have any time they have been relegated from the PL in recent years | |
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| Unpopular opinion on 10:25 - Dec 6 with 1326 views | itfcjoe |
Probably on balance he failed with more in his favour - but both were rubbish and we now move on and hope the next one is better.
Does the Gamechanger era really begin now? |  |
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| Unpopular opinion on 10:26 - Dec 6 with 1312 views | Bluroo |
Statistically and contextually, Lambert was a better manager than Cook. I really have no time for the self-obsessed oaf but facts are facts. He got more out of an ensemble of aging and want-away Mick & Hurst players, relegated from the Championship thinking they were too good for L1. Cook got less out of them and even less out of a brand new squad, apparently all purchased based on their "profile" and "buy in" to the vision of the club.
The quality of Lambert's football became turgid and drab, but a lot of that was to do with the funk around the club, several players not wanting to be here, Evans leaving the club to rot and wanting to sell. But even to the end the team were reasonably well organised, even if lacking in desire and thrust.
But Cook without Richardson was just unbelievably inept tactically, some of the results such as Cambridge and Stanley away were just criminal in their naivety. He clearly believed what he said which was that "if you put a stronger team out than the opposition, all things being equal, they should win"... I mean, for a professional manager to not have grasped the importance and nuances of the strategic side of the game just beggars belief. I think fans get too fixated about the formation itself, 4231, 442, 352, whatever, they can all work. It's just a layout but they're all fluid (or should be), it's what the team is drilled to actually do and the confidence instilled in them to beleive they can do it, that makes the difference.
I'd have trusted Lambert far more with the latitude to bin the old squad and build a new one. But that ship has sailed. I think we have the nucleus of a squad more than capable of getting out of this league, just need a manager with the right blend of man and tactical management and a couple of January signings to fit the system(s) and we should be capable of going on a decent run to the playoffs. | | | |
| Unpopular opinion on 10:39 - Dec 6 with 1284 views | Darth_Koont |
| Unpopular opinion on 10:25 - Dec 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I have no idea what the context is honestly, it’s a bizarre comment
We have been one of the most patient clubs in the football league for the last 20 years, despite zero success and very rarely challenging at the top end. Its only since coming down to the League One that the expectation levels have risen, and rightly so given that other clubs of our size have made relatively light work of getting back up. Much the same as Newcastle have any time they have been relegated from the PL in recent years |
I covered ambition in the next line. Newcastle was an example of “automatic expectation” based on where you’ve been rather than where you are and how ready you are to move up.
We’ve had our share of that. None of which means we should limit our ambition or not expect better as fans from the last 20 years. We’ve had pretty much the least interesting and most joy-starved couple of decades in the football pyramid it seems. Even Coventry have had it better by now. | |
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| Have some respect…. on 10:41 - Dec 6 with 1278 views | Bloots |
| Unpopular opinion on 10:25 - Dec 6 by itfcjoe |
Probably on balance he failed with more in his favour - but both were rubbish and we now move on and hope the next one is better.
Does the Gamechanger era really begin now? |
….how dare you call him rubbish?!?
You’ll get the “cultists” after you. |  |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| He really wasn't on 10:42 - Dec 6 with 1270 views | Dyland |
nfft |  |
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| Unpopular opinion on 10:45 - Dec 6 with 1263 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Unpopular opinion on 10:39 - Dec 6 by Darth_Koont |
I covered ambition in the next line. Newcastle was an example of “automatic expectation” based on where you’ve been rather than where you are and how ready you are to move up.
We’ve had our share of that. None of which means we should limit our ambition or not expect better as fans from the last 20 years. We’ve had pretty much the least interesting and most joy-starved couple of decades in the football pyramid it seems. Even Coventry have had it better by now. |
But we haven’t had automatic expectation for the last 20 years you wally. If anything expectations have been too low - we settled for mediocrity for years in the Championship employing managers who achieved very little for way too long. Even with the fans it was only when we got relegated that there was a really big turn against Evans despite the way those expectations had been lowered under his watch
Your point would only stack up for the past couple of years if you really believe that we are not ready to challenge for promotion, which IMO is a ridiculous outlook given the state some other sides of our stature have been in when coming down to Division 3 and how they performed
Bizarre | |
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