| Covid deaths. 18:32 - Feb 2 with 3342 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Does anybody know why finally the BBC make a point of saying that not all of the reported deaths will have died because of Covid (for about the last month)? Secondly why can't they give us the number of people that have actually died as a result of Covid?
For the avoidance of doubt these are questions, there is no agenda. Sad this has to be pointed out but there you go. |  |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:39 - Feb 2 with 2613 views | BlueBadger |
Because, at an educated guess, for about the last month cases of 'incidental' covid(ie covid picked up where someone has been admitted for one thing and is not the primary cause of admission) has begun to overcome ''primary'(ie covid as the cause of admission) in hospitals.
Until the last few weeks 'incidental' covid has been pretty rare as a cause of admission.
[Post edited 2 Feb 2022 18:41]
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| Covid deaths. on 18:39 - Feb 2 with 2599 views | ZXBlue |
I know exactly where you are going with this.
However, teh answer is that because the numbers are now so large amidst a lagely vaccinated population, the number of people who die of something else but happen also to be positive for covid has become significant enough to be of note, rather than negligible as it was previously when the conspiracy theorists tried to undermine the figures. |  | | |
| Covid deaths. on 18:39 - Feb 2 with 2591 views | WD19 |
I imagine a number of wasters had been lobbying them relentlessly so they decided to do it just to shut them up.
On the cause of death point - presumably in many cases it is difficult to determine what exactly caused the expiration. |  | | |
| Covid deaths. on 18:43 - Feb 2 with 2553 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Covid deaths. on 18:39 - Feb 2 by BlueBadger |
Because, at an educated guess, for about the last month cases of 'incidental' covid(ie covid picked up where someone has been admitted for one thing and is not the primary cause of admission) has begun to overcome ''primary'(ie covid as the cause of admission) in hospitals.
Until the last few weeks 'incidental' covid has been pretty rare as a cause of admission.
[Post edited 2 Feb 2022 18:41]
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Do you know approximately what proportion that is and was and why they haven't just reported "primary" deaths? | |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:43 - Feb 2 with 2553 views | Pinewoodblue |
Seems that with Omicron spreading faster than previous variants that the number being admitted to hospital who also just happen to test positive is on the rise. They include in Covid death figures anyone who tested positive in the previous 28 days.
The number of deaths (with) Covid reported today is actually higher than the number of people with Covid classed as being in a serious condition. Serious condition, I understand, relates to being on a ventilator. |  |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:44 - Feb 2 with 2541 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Covid deaths. on 18:39 - Feb 2 by ZXBlue |
I know exactly where you are going with this.
However, teh answer is that because the numbers are now so large amidst a lagely vaccinated population, the number of people who die of something else but happen also to be positive for covid has become significant enough to be of note, rather than negligible as it was previously when the conspiracy theorists tried to undermine the figures. |
No you don't! Seems you just couldn't help yourself from doing that thing. | |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:45 - Feb 2 with 2530 views | BlueBadger |
| Covid deaths. on 18:43 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Do you know approximately what proportion that is and was and why they haven't just reported "primary" deaths? |
Off the top of my head, no and no idea.
That's gonna involve the kind of googling I don't really have time for this evening - big game in the Glemsford and District Crib league tonight to prep for! | |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:46 - Feb 2 with 2519 views | footers |
People don't generally die because of AIDS either, just with it. |  |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:46 - Feb 2 with 2517 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Covid deaths. on 18:43 - Feb 2 by Pinewoodblue |
Seems that with Omicron spreading faster than previous variants that the number being admitted to hospital who also just happen to test positive is on the rise. They include in Covid death figures anyone who tested positive in the previous 28 days.
The number of deaths (with) Covid reported today is actually higher than the number of people with Covid classed as being in a serious condition. Serious condition, I understand, relates to being on a ventilator. |
It was seeing the high number just now that prompted me to ask but I picked up on the BBC wording change several weeks back. | |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:49 - Feb 2 with 2493 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Covid deaths. on 18:46 - Feb 2 by footers |
People don't generally die because of AIDS either, just with it. |
Interesting side note. | |
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| Covid deaths. on 18:57 - Feb 2 with 2451 views | Trequartista |
I think it has become more significant to point it out with Omicron, because such is the huge prevalence of cases, the hospital and death figures have become more distorted with 'incidentals'
It's difficult to define the number of people that have died as a result of covid. Some may have incidentally picked up covid when they died of something else, others may have picked up covid when in hospital for something else, but then covid made a significant contribution. It's quite complex which results in several different figures, with others preferring to ignore covid cases altogether and just look at how much above or below the figures are compared to expected deaths. |  |
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| Covid deaths. on 19:15 - Feb 2 with 2386 views | BlueBadger |
| Covid deaths. on 18:57 - Feb 2 by Trequartista |
I think it has become more significant to point it out with Omicron, because such is the huge prevalence of cases, the hospital and death figures have become more distorted with 'incidentals'
It's difficult to define the number of people that have died as a result of covid. Some may have incidentally picked up covid when they died of something else, others may have picked up covid when in hospital for something else, but then covid made a significant contribution. It's quite complex which results in several different figures, with others preferring to ignore covid cases altogether and just look at how much above or below the figures are compared to expected deaths. |
Stolen from a FB page I follow:
'Medical certificates in England (a.k.a. "Death certificates") have four lines on them for 'Cause of Death'. 1 a, b, and c which are the direct cause of death, and 2 which lists conditions contributing to the death, but not necessarily causing it.
For example, for someone admitted to hospital with Covid-19 who started to recover from it, but developed venous thromboembolic complications and died, the certificate could read:
1a Pulmonary Embolism
1b Deep Vein thrombosis
1c (or even 2) Covid-19.
The patient didn't die directly from Covid-19, but it led directly to them dying.
There is no section on the medical certificate to list all their illnesses. UK doctors are not paid extra to complete this certificate. And there is no incentive to add Covid-19 for any reason if a doctor does not think it did not contribute towards death.'
The overwhelming majority of death certificates with the word 'covid 19' on them from 2020 through till mid-January would have seen covid listed as a 1 or 2.
It's quite easy to get a true figure. [Post edited 2 Feb 2022 19:18]
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| Covid deaths. on 19:16 - Feb 2 with 2374 views | EastTownBlue |
As the government will get rid of the covid deaths and positive test stats by April, we will soon have no idea as we “live with Covid”. | | | |
| Covid deaths. on 19:44 - Feb 2 with 2261 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Covid deaths. on 19:15 - Feb 2 by BlueBadger |
Stolen from a FB page I follow:
'Medical certificates in England (a.k.a. "Death certificates") have four lines on them for 'Cause of Death'. 1 a, b, and c which are the direct cause of death, and 2 which lists conditions contributing to the death, but not necessarily causing it.
For example, for someone admitted to hospital with Covid-19 who started to recover from it, but developed venous thromboembolic complications and died, the certificate could read:
1a Pulmonary Embolism
1b Deep Vein thrombosis
1c (or even 2) Covid-19.
The patient didn't die directly from Covid-19, but it led directly to them dying.
There is no section on the medical certificate to list all their illnesses. UK doctors are not paid extra to complete this certificate. And there is no incentive to add Covid-19 for any reason if a doctor does not think it did not contribute towards death.'
The overwhelming majority of death certificates with the word 'covid 19' on them from 2020 through till mid-January would have seen covid listed as a 1 or 2.
It's quite easy to get a true figure. [Post edited 2 Feb 2022 19:18]
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Perhaps for clarity anything featuring on 1 (a,b,c) should be counted in official data. Thanks for looking into it.
The prevalence of omicron probably explains the news media's more precise terminology but on a day like today(500 +) it probably reduces the liklihood of scaring the b'jeesus out of the viewers! [Post edited 2 Feb 2022 19:44]
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| Covid deaths. on 19:51 - Feb 2 with 2219 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Covid deaths. on 18:39 - Feb 2 by BlueBadger |
Because, at an educated guess, for about the last month cases of 'incidental' covid(ie covid picked up where someone has been admitted for one thing and is not the primary cause of admission) has begun to overcome ''primary'(ie covid as the cause of admission) in hospitals.
Until the last few weeks 'incidental' covid has been pretty rare as a cause of admission.
[Post edited 2 Feb 2022 18:41]
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Pah! Yeah, but what’s the REAL ulterior motive? |  |
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| Covid deaths. on 20:00 - Feb 2 with 2175 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Covid deaths. on 19:51 - Feb 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Pah! Yeah, but what’s the REAL ulterior motive? |
Doesn't it seem a bit pointless going down the 'tested positive in the last 28 days' route in the first place. Surely we should have been counting what's on the death certificate from day one. Or am I missing something? | |
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| Covid deaths. on 20:10 - Feb 2 with 2144 views | BlueBadger |
| Covid deaths. on 20:00 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Doesn't it seem a bit pointless going down the 'tested positive in the last 28 days' route in the first place. Surely we should have been counting what's on the death certificate from day one. Or am I missing something? |
We went with the '28 days' stats because the numbers were making the government look like corrupt, incompetent sociopaths.
Guess what? | |
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| Covid deaths. on 20:13 - Feb 2 with 2115 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Covid deaths. on 20:10 - Feb 2 by BlueBadger |
We went with the '28 days' stats because the numbers were making the government look like corrupt, incompetent sociopaths.
Guess what? |
So the death certifate numbers are higher due to not much testing going on in the early stages? | |
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| Covid deaths. on 20:24 - Feb 2 with 2068 views | Basuco |
| Covid deaths. on 19:16 - Feb 2 by EastTownBlue |
As the government will get rid of the covid deaths and positive test stats by April, we will soon have no idea as we “live with Covid”. |
There were 7124 covid death's in January, that is 230 every day on average, and the government are desperate to get us to think it is all over, when it obviously isn't. |  | | |
| Covid deaths. on 21:01 - Feb 2 with 1935 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Sorry to hear that.
Sounds like over here both would be listed as causes of death ( 1a and 1b)
As for the last bit, before the edited add ons I think you are another one seeing things and ascribing values that aren't there. | |
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| [Redacted] on 21:08 - Feb 2 with 1886 views | victorywilhappen |
| Covid deaths. on 21:01 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Sorry to hear that.
Sounds like over here both would be listed as causes of death ( 1a and 1b)
As for the last bit, before the edited add ons I think you are another one seeing things and ascribing values that aren't there. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Covid deaths. on 21:20 - Feb 2 with 1833 views | Vic |
I thought they’d been saying for a long time that the figures were those who died WITH covid, as opposed to ‘of’ covid.
With regard to why they don’t give the figures of those who die ‘Because of covid’ - I was asking my Dr son that vey question at the week end. He explained to me that when certifying a death there several factors (3 I think he said) that a Dr includes. One I’d cause of death, another is a constructors factor and I can’t remember what the other one is. So person X may die of pneumonia, but covid may have made it worse, and hastened death.
Edit - just seen Badgers reply above. He said what I was trying to say, but said it 100x better. Go read his answer - he right! [Post edited 2 Feb 2022 21:25]
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| Covid deaths. on 21:24 - Feb 2 with 1820 views | Trequartista |
| Covid deaths. on 19:44 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Perhaps for clarity anything featuring on 1 (a,b,c) should be counted in official data. Thanks for looking into it.
The prevalence of omicron probably explains the news media's more precise terminology but on a day like today(500 +) it probably reduces the liklihood of scaring the b'jeesus out of the viewers! [Post edited 2 Feb 2022 19:44]
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The 500+ today is a backlog from yesterday when deaths (219) were unexpectedly half of what they were the week before (439). | |
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| Covid deaths. on 21:46 - Feb 2 with 1746 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Why would I need to look at excess deaths to know that excessive people have died and why would I be having that discussion at a wake? It feels like you are ascribing pre determined value to my question. | |
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