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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious 16:53 - Feb 16 with 6202 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

And you were meant to, it was a frivolous idea. However, I've since discovered this podcast... and the idea pf Panpsychism.

Essentially, the idea is that EVERYTHING has a form of consciousness, just that some things have it on a much more complex level (i.e. humans) than other things (i.e the molecules in a brick). It's a fundamental property of everything, at a molecular level.

It makes sense - because if you trace life all the way back to its origins, then consciousness MUST'VE been on a very small, very basic level. As with life, consciousness must've emerged from non-life, and it must've been very very basic (initially), evolving over millions of years (in some things) to a point where you're experiencing this sentence. The fact that it emerged at all suggests it could be a basic property of everything.

That's what I took from it, anyway. Any of you science buffs know more on the subject?

It's a long podcast but very interesting.

[Post edited 16 Feb 2022 16:54]

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:10 - Feb 16 with 1341 viewsWeWereZombies

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:37 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

Sorry, I didn't mean directly. I mean originally there was nothing... then your "bucket of squodge" appeared... and then life from that. But ultimately life seemingly came from nothing. Unless you believe there was always 'something' and the universe - or what was before the universe - had no start point?


You see, it is not just being able to cut and paste...it is knowing what to cut and paste:

https://mindandsoul.space/home/2019/8/28/understanding-the-dimension-of-time-is-

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:11 - Feb 16 with 1338 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:58 - Feb 16 by ZXBlue

No valid questions asked. Its like saying "Well there is a theory that fairies are in my garden. And someone important says its true. Prove me wrong".


"How do you square the fact that there was no consciousness and then it appeared, as life did, from nothing (ultimately) - and then, at that very early stage, it will have been a very very primitive form of consciousness (because life then was just cells/bacterium)?"

How is this not a valid question? It's nothing like "there is a theory that fairies are in my garden." Consciousness already exists.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:14 - Feb 16 with 1328 viewsmonytowbray

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:04 - Feb 16 by jeera

I'm not sure it's radical. Lots of weird and wonderful beliefs have been recycled over time and reframed as being new.

Spiritualists believe everything has a spirit, even a coffee table.

It's nonsense of course and we know this because we're adults.

The same as we know brick dust doesn't have a consciousness, because it's brick dust.

Mites that choose to live in stuff such as dust however, that might be another matter but not something I'm qualified to say one way or another.


The issue is you have interchangeably used “spirituality” and “consciousness”.

So the whole post may as well go in the bin.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:18 - Feb 16 with 1313 viewsDanTheMan

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:11 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

"How do you square the fact that there was no consciousness and then it appeared, as life did, from nothing (ultimately) - and then, at that very early stage, it will have been a very very primitive form of consciousness (because life then was just cells/bacterium)?"

How is this not a valid question? It's nothing like "there is a theory that fairies are in my garden." Consciousness already exists.


If you can define consciousness rigidly enough then you could indeed have a line drawn between cells / an organism not having consciousness to obtaining it. I imagine there are differing definitions of what consciousness is so without it people are going to disagree.

Personally I disagree the Sun has consciousness because it has no awareness. It's just a big chemical reaction but I seem to recall we've been over my feelings on this before.
[Post edited 16 Feb 2022 19:22]

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:19 - Feb 16 with 1312 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:04 - Feb 16 by jeera

I'm not sure it's radical. Lots of weird and wonderful beliefs have been recycled over time and reframed as being new.

Spiritualists believe everything has a spirit, even a coffee table.

It's nonsense of course and we know this because we're adults.

The same as we know brick dust doesn't have a consciousness, because it's brick dust.

Mites that choose to live in stuff such as dust however, that might be another matter but not something I'm qualified to say one way or another.


I (and the theory) are not talking consciousness in the complex sense that we have it. It's not suggesting bricks think. The theory is that consciousness is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality. So that whatever becomes consciousness as we know it (through evolution) is inherent in every atom. It doesn't mean everything becomes conscious.
[Post edited 16 Feb 2022 19:29]

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:28 - Feb 16 with 1294 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:18 - Feb 16 by DanTheMan

If you can define consciousness rigidly enough then you could indeed have a line drawn between cells / an organism not having consciousness to obtaining it. I imagine there are differing definitions of what consciousness is so without it people are going to disagree.

Personally I disagree the Sun has consciousness because it has no awareness. It's just a big chemical reaction but I seem to recall we've been over my feelings on this before.
[Post edited 16 Feb 2022 19:22]


As I've just said to Jeera, I don't mean consciousness as in how we understand it. I'm not suggesting it has awareness - but if the mind or a mindlike aspect is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality, then the sun is made up of the same stuff - atoms - that everything else is, and thus the property which leads to consciousness exists in it, just like everything else.

My OP was a little cheeky/misleading. I'm not saying someone else thinks the sun could be conscious, I'm saying the thing that leads to consciousness could be inherent in everything (at an atomic level).

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:33 - Feb 16 with 1286 viewsDanTheMan

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:28 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

As I've just said to Jeera, I don't mean consciousness as in how we understand it. I'm not suggesting it has awareness - but if the mind or a mindlike aspect is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality, then the sun is made up of the same stuff - atoms - that everything else is, and thus the property which leads to consciousness exists in it, just like everything else.

My OP was a little cheeky/misleading. I'm not saying someone else thinks the sun could be conscious, I'm saying the thing that leads to consciousness could be inherent in everything (at an atomic level).


Well yes, everything is matter, so we share that in common.

I'm not sure that makes the Sun conscious anymore than it makes me a Norwich fan.

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Knowing you, you meant couscous on 19:41 - Feb 16 with 1275 viewsSwansea_Blue

N to the F to the T


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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 20:42 - Feb 16 with 1222 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:33 - Feb 16 by DanTheMan

Well yes, everything is matter, so we share that in common.

I'm not sure that makes the Sun conscious anymore than it makes me a Norwich fan.


I'm not saying the sun is conscious. I'm saying that if that 'thing' which becomes consciousness is in everything, at an atomic level, then the sun has it too.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 20:46 - Feb 16 with 1217 viewsWeWereZombies

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 20:42 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

I'm not saying the sun is conscious. I'm saying that if that 'thing' which becomes consciousness is in everything, at an atomic level, then the sun has it too.



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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 20:55 - Feb 16 with 1212 viewsZXBlue

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 20:42 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

I'm not saying the sun is conscious. I'm saying that if that 'thing' which becomes consciousness is in everything, at an atomic level, then the sun has it too.


Thats like saying I am blonde, I am made up of molecules, so all molecules must have some element of blonde in them too.

Its just utter woo.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 21:34 - Feb 16 with 1194 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 20:55 - Feb 16 by ZXBlue

Thats like saying I am blonde, I am made up of molecules, so all molecules must have some element of blonde in them too.

Its just utter woo.


No, it's not saying that. Hair colour's determined by the amount of the pigment melanin you have in your hair.

You still haven't answered my valid questions. You just keep throwing out "woo" and silly examples. At least others have engaged with the topic.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 21:44 - Feb 16 with 1187 viewsZXBlue

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 21:34 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

No, it's not saying that. Hair colour's determined by the amount of the pigment melanin you have in your hair.

You still haven't answered my valid questions. You just keep throwing out "woo" and silly examples. At least others have engaged with the topic.


What is your most valid question.

And it is saying that.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 21:56 - Feb 16 with 1172 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 21:44 - Feb 16 by ZXBlue

What is your most valid question.

And it is saying that.


I've explained how it's not saying that. And I've asked the valid question twice now, it's there in the thread. You're just deflecting because you can't answer (and you'll just continue to deflect so I don't see the point of copying and pasting it a third time).

I've also not said Panpsychism is the answer. I've said it's an answer. It's a theory. You said, "Well there is a theory that fairies are in my garden. And someone important says its true" but that's a false equivalence. No-one has said Panpsychism is true.

Other people have tried to engage with the theory, you've done nothing more than shout "woo" and swerve questions.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:02 - Feb 16 with 1163 viewsZXBlue

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 21:56 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

I've explained how it's not saying that. And I've asked the valid question twice now, it's there in the thread. You're just deflecting because you can't answer (and you'll just continue to deflect so I don't see the point of copying and pasting it a third time).

I've also not said Panpsychism is the answer. I've said it's an answer. It's a theory. You said, "Well there is a theory that fairies are in my garden. And someone important says its true" but that's a false equivalence. No-one has said Panpsychism is true.

Other people have tried to engage with the theory, you've done nothing more than shout "woo" and swerve questions.


It is saying that. Whether you like it or not. The proposition is precisely the same. And it is equally silly. You are entertaining a completely made up theory with no basis in fact or science and saying that people should seriously consider it.

Ive not seen a valid question.

No one is swerving anything. Its a ridiculous theory based on nothing. It is proposed without foundation and can be dismissed without further consideration.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:03 - Feb 16 with 1162 viewsZXBlue

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:02 - Feb 16 by ZXBlue

It is saying that. Whether you like it or not. The proposition is precisely the same. And it is equally silly. You are entertaining a completely made up theory with no basis in fact or science and saying that people should seriously consider it.

Ive not seen a valid question.

No one is swerving anything. Its a ridiculous theory based on nothing. It is proposed without foundation and can be dismissed without further consideration.


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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:10 - Feb 16 with 1151 viewsCotty

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 17:23 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

You're incorrect. It's already of scientific interest: "In 2021, the Journal of Consciousness Studies featured Goff's work as the topic of 20 essays by scientists, philosophers, and theologians."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Goff_(philosopher)

Philip Goff is a philosopher, not a science fiction writer and it's an interesting idea. Surely scientific investigations start in ideas? Surely philosophy leads to scientific interest? You'd have to be very closed minded to just say "it's not of scientific interest" and end it there.


This is not science. It is not based on evidence.
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:12 - Feb 16 with 1141 viewsEwan_Oozami

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 19:11 - Feb 16 by The_Flashing_Smile

"How do you square the fact that there was no consciousness and then it appeared, as life did, from nothing (ultimately) - and then, at that very early stage, it will have been a very very primitive form of consciousness (because life then was just cells/bacterium)?"

How is this not a valid question? It's nothing like "there is a theory that fairies are in my garden." Consciousness already exists.


How can we know that there was no consciousness, and then at some point, there was? All seems a bit Terracentric if you ask me....

You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:19 - Feb 16 with 1132 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:36 - Feb 16 by ZXBlue

Im afraid it is the only valid resopnse to it.

It is based on nothing of substance. No scientific basis whatsoever.


Who needs science when we have magic mushrooms?

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'Knowing you, you meant couscous' on 23:13 - Feb 16 with 1098 viewsfactual_blue

Knowing you, you meant couscous on 19:41 - Feb 16 by Swansea_Blue

N to the F to the T



Was the rejected title of Knowing Me, Knowing You.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 23:48 - Feb 16 with 1075 viewsWeWereZombies

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:12 - Feb 16 by Ewan_Oozami

How can we know that there was no consciousness, and then at some point, there was? All seems a bit Terracentric if you ask me....


Thanks for that, saves me from dropping epiphenomenalism into the conversation...

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 23:56 - Feb 16 with 1056 viewsRyorry

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 18:42 - Feb 16 by monytowbray

These conversations are more suited to the TWTD druggos whilst on drugs and melted on a sofa somewhere.

Consciousness something that fascinates me in terms of where it comes from, where it goes when you die and if we are separate consciousnesses or one big consciousness but bits of us are detached in flesh prisons for periods.

Stuff like past life experiences (like kids spouting war memory stuff, not flim flam regression sh1t) is something I’d love science to figure out, and it feels like that line of questioning could maybe answer it.

Reality is only what our bodies let us experience, and we see a fraction of reality.

Granted, I don’t have the answers myself or even know if my line of questioning is worth it (let alone how you’d go about it).


"Stuff like past life experiences (like kids spouting war memory stuff, not flim flam regression sh1t)".

Really interesting if that's dismissed as "unscientific", considering that "inherited memory", ie animal instinct, is taken for granted by scientists (eg 10 week old sheepdog pups trying to round up chickens without ever previously having seen herding done).

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 00:13 - Feb 17 with 1050 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:10 - Feb 16 by Cotty

This is not science. It is not based on evidence.


I didn't say it was science.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 00:20 - Feb 17 with 1045 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 22:12 - Feb 16 by Ewan_Oozami

How can we know that there was no consciousness, and then at some point, there was? All seems a bit Terracentric if you ask me....


Are you suggesting there was consciousness before living things? In what?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 08:34 - Feb 17 with 985 viewsZXBlue

You all laughed when I suggested the sun could be conscious on 23:56 - Feb 16 by Ryorry

"Stuff like past life experiences (like kids spouting war memory stuff, not flim flam regression sh1t)".

Really interesting if that's dismissed as "unscientific", considering that "inherited memory", ie animal instinct, is taken for granted by scientists (eg 10 week old sheepdog pups trying to round up chickens without ever previously having seen herding done).


Genetic instinct, and "past life experiences" are compeltely different things.

You cant smuggle in reincarnation by referring to genetic instincts!
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