| Greetings from the Political Void 13:26 - Mar 10 with 4289 views | Darth_Koont |
Hooray for the “grownups”. |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:11 - Mar 10 with 1518 views | Darth_Koont |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 19:26 - Mar 10 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I think all the downvotes are somewhat harsh in this instance.
Most people probably agree with you that we should hold our politicians to higher standards. It’s just that those you are constantly defending clearly aren’t those who have demonstrated high standards.
I’d also question why you post a “but Labour” thread every day. You don’t have to vote for them, it’s not your team, there are other options! |
I’m not sure who I’m constantly defending. I’ll defend policies that are sensible, desirable and, in the UK, looong overdue but it’s not about politicians per se.
And in a 2-horse race I’m quite happy rubbishing both. As you say, other alternatives are available ... in Scotland with the SNP, in Wales with a Labour government that seems much more likely to help people, and ultimately that we just start talking about other issues and their solutions that are outside the political bubble.
Or we can just cheer along to our team as the country continues its decline and the structural problems and tensions increase. The UK and all its people deserve way better than that – especially those (millions of children among them) who are already on the losing side of many different divides and imbalances. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:13 - Mar 10 with 1513 views | Darth_Koont |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:01 - Mar 10 by Ryorry |
And that's your best response - says it all. |
I’ve heard it all before R.
We just disagree on which of us is delusional. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:15 - Mar 10 with 1507 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:10 - Mar 10 by jeera |
It is insane any nation giving that level of leverage over themselves, yes.
Including us buying from elsewhere at potentially inflated prices that which can be produced on our own doorstep.
But first of all you have to get past those who are more concerned with who is making those proposals, because if it comes from one it'll be a good idea and what this country should be all about, but from another and it will be fanciful Marxism or some other old tosh.
Yes, the basics should be nationally owned which anyone would agree except for those who benefit from their privatisation. The needs of the nation should come before off-shore shareholders, private firms etc.
How any of our infrastructure is owned by other people's wealth is criminal.
Generally opposition to this seems to hark back to some 40 or 50 odd years ago when times were different. |
Yeah well I'm not too sure about that.
Maybe there should be clauses in the privatised companies contracts about supply and profit.
Nationalisation sounds wonderful when you have had time to forget what it was like - and if you think it will be cheaper then think again. If a government is skint and needs to raise a shed load of money then they will tax the arse out or transport and energy. |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:19 - Mar 10 with 1494 views | jeera |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:15 - Mar 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Yeah well I'm not too sure about that.
Maybe there should be clauses in the privatised companies contracts about supply and profit.
Nationalisation sounds wonderful when you have had time to forget what it was like - and if you think it will be cheaper then think again. If a government is skint and needs to raise a shed load of money then they will tax the arse out or transport and energy. |
"Nationalisation sounds wonderful when you have had time to forget what it was like"
But that's my point. Surely it depends on who's running the show.
We pay through the nose anyways, and very often for poor service.
It should not be beyond all realms for people smarter than me, we have a decent education system that produces some clever minds to solve the basics.
But they're not the type who get to become the decision makers are they? |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:27 - Mar 10 with 1451 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:19 - Mar 10 by jeera |
"Nationalisation sounds wonderful when you have had time to forget what it was like"
But that's my point. Surely it depends on who's running the show.
We pay through the nose anyways, and very often for poor service.
It should not be beyond all realms for people smarter than me, we have a decent education system that produces some clever minds to solve the basics.
But they're not the type who get to become the decision makers are they? |
The decision makers are the heads of the privatised companies.
I'm neither here nor there on nationalisation / privatisation as you are going to get hit anyway. At least with privatisation they have to answer to their investors.
It wasn't that long ago trains were privatised - and they were bloody awful when in the hands of the government. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:06 - Mar 10 with 1436 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 19:49 - Mar 10 by Lord_Lucan |
I haven't read the thread, mainly because I can't be arsed.
Starmer said recently that he is against nationalising energy.
The one thing I can't get my head around though is why countries think it's wise to import energy if they can be largely self sufficient. Germany for example relying to a great extent on Russia is complete madness as even a fool would realise that the west is only a bad mood away from political issues with Russia, that and the fact that Russia will know they have you by the balls and can switch you off in an instant.
I am far from a knowledgable man on this subject but from what I understand we export a lot if not most of our energy.
It's complete madness! |
It would make sense wouldn’t it. It seems that quite a few people are now asking the same question, so maybe this will end up with countries being more self reliant. For us, a windy country surrounded by sea, I’d like to think tidal and wind play a big part in that. But then we get political again as there are a lot of big energy vested interests in the right, and funding from the climate skeptic lobby, so there will be continued reluctance to make the change I suspect. |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:12 - Mar 10 with 1430 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 19:59 - Mar 10 by Ryorry |
"Labour are crap at fixing the stuff that needs fixing" because they aren't in power.
They aren't in power at least partly because you & those who think & write like you are constantly rubbishing them from your ivory tower of idealism, wherein nothing but your 100% perfect mythical utopian dream will ever suffice.
So nothing ever changes. Thanks a bunch. [Post edited 10 Mar 2022 20:01]
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I think you've got this the wrong way round. Labour aren't in power because of the rubbishing being done before Starmer became leader. The finger should be pointed firmly in the opposite direction to the one you're doing, as I'm pretty sure Darth was very much in favour of a Labour government at the last two elections when we had a chance to put Labour in power. |  | | |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:20 - Mar 10 with 1390 views | Seablu |
You snared the expected floaters in the net as usual.
Highly comical that the dyed-in-the-wool tory is manically mashing the down arrow again.
He’ll be pretending that Patel and Johnson don’t really reflect his true tory values next…
He’s regenerated himself more times than Dr Who.
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:30 - Mar 10 with 1379 views | jeera |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:27 - Mar 10 by Lord_Lucan |
The decision makers are the heads of the privatised companies.
I'm neither here nor there on nationalisation / privatisation as you are going to get hit anyway. At least with privatisation they have to answer to their investors.
It wasn't that long ago trains were privatised - and they were bloody awful when in the hands of the government. |
Almost 30 years ago!
You're like me in that respect maybe, in that I often find things that were recent to me suddenly aren't so recent after all.
Our current manager was 5 years old at the time railways were privatised. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:38 - Mar 10 with 1374 views | Ryorry |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:12 - Mar 10 by Clapham_Junction |
I think you've got this the wrong way round. Labour aren't in power because of the rubbishing being done before Starmer became leader. The finger should be pointed firmly in the opposite direction to the one you're doing, as I'm pretty sure Darth was very much in favour of a Labour government at the last two elections when we had a chance to put Labour in power. |
"Labour aren't in power because of the rubbishing being done before Starmer became leader."
Sorry, but I think that's absolute nonsense. |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:41 - Mar 10 with 1367 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:30 - Mar 10 by jeera |
Almost 30 years ago!
You're like me in that respect maybe, in that I often find things that were recent to me suddenly aren't so recent after all.
Our current manager was 5 years old at the time railways were privatised. |
I know what you mean and if they nationalised gas, transport - anything - then I haven't got a problem with it.
I just don't think it will change a thing. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:44 - Mar 10 with 1343 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:38 - Mar 10 by Ryorry |
"Labour aren't in power because of the rubbishing being done before Starmer became leader."
Sorry, but I think that's absolute nonsense. |
I think what he meant to say was that Labour aren’t in power because of the rubbish leader before Starmer. |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:53 - Mar 10 with 1352 views | Ryorry |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:44 - Mar 10 by GlasgowBlue |
I think what he meant to say was that Labour aren’t in power because of the rubbish leader before Starmer. |
Mmm, I know, thus ignoring that people could see perfectly well for themselves what a weak, poor leader he was (albeit a very good constituency MP) - they didn't need any intermediary doing the 'rubbishing' for them. I certainly ignored what the papers said & just went on his speeches/statements directly out of his own mouth. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:00 - Mar 10 with 1336 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:44 - Mar 10 by GlasgowBlue |
I think what he meant to say was that Labour aren’t in power because of the rubbish leader before Starmer. |
Starmer is a John Major
He's fecked - no one wants that cr4p.
I reckon Angela Rayner would be better opposition that Starmer - but she's too far left for the populace.
Labour remains screwed. Definite info. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:04 - Mar 10 with 1332 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:44 - Mar 10 by GlasgowBlue |
I think what he meant to say was that Labour aren’t in power because of the rubbish leader before Starmer. |
Corbyn was an intelligent and charismatic man, he was just unfortunate to be up against someone as hugely popular as Teresa May. |  | | |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:24 - Mar 10 with 1302 views | JDB23 |
I do find it a bit odd how many on here (and elsewhere) blame Corbyn for the government we currently have due to him being "weak opposition", and yet when anyone tries to hold Starmer to a higher standard than the Tories, they are shouted down and told they should only be directing their anger to Johnson and co and not those who aren't in power. | | | |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:26 - Mar 10 with 1295 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:38 - Mar 10 by Ryorry |
"Labour aren't in power because of the rubbishing being done before Starmer became leader."
Sorry, but I think that's absolute nonsense. |
You've missed the point entirely.
You said to Darth that Labour "aren't in power at least partly because you & those who think & write like you are constantly rubbishing them"
Darth has only been rubbishing them since Starmer became leader. Labour haven't had a chance to get into power since then because Starmer hasn't fought a general election. | | | |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:34 - Mar 10 with 1270 views | noggin |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 16:45 - Mar 10 by Darth_Koont |
Or maybe they believed in the leader and the policy programme in particular?
And I suppose the corollary question is why would you create or support a policy programme you don’t believe in?
The country is in a state because both the Tories and Labour are crap at fixing the stuff that needs fixing. And even crapper at advocating for it. Instead they follow the electorate wherever the right-wing media and people like Farage try to drag us. |
Exactly this. While children go hungry and cold, their parents, who are working but still having to claim benefits, are encouraged to fly the union jack with pride. |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:43 - Mar 10 with 1253 views | Ryorry |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:26 - Mar 10 by Clapham_Junction |
You've missed the point entirely.
You said to Darth that Labour "aren't in power at least partly because you & those who think & write like you are constantly rubbishing them"
Darth has only been rubbishing them since Starmer became leader. Labour haven't had a chance to get into power since then because Starmer hasn't fought a general election. |
OK, I meant "aren't leading by a landslide in the polls"; but my objections to your comment re Labour not being elected allegedly because of the "rubbishing" of Corbyn still stand (comments which DK has also made in the past). | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:49 - Mar 10 with 1235 views | Ryorry |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 20:13 - Mar 10 by Darth_Koont |
I’ve heard it all before R.
We just disagree on which of us is delusional. |
What's sad is that I'm sure our ideals are actually the same, but I'm a pragmatist & a realist who prefers to get at least some things done, whereas your rigidity would ensure that there are no improvements ever, because the majority of the UK voting public tend to be moderate by nature & will never go with you. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:51 - Mar 10 with 1234 views | noggin |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:24 - Mar 10 by JDB23 |
I do find it a bit odd how many on here (and elsewhere) blame Corbyn for the government we currently have due to him being "weak opposition", and yet when anyone tries to hold Starmer to a higher standard than the Tories, they are shouted down and told they should only be directing their anger to Johnson and co and not those who aren't in power. |
Corbyn frightened the right, hence the media witch hunt which led to his downfall. Blaming his supporters for the country getting Johnson is ridiculous. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 23:24 - Mar 10 with 1188 views | Ryorry |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 22:24 - Mar 10 by JDB23 |
I do find it a bit odd how many on here (and elsewhere) blame Corbyn for the government we currently have due to him being "weak opposition", and yet when anyone tries to hold Starmer to a higher standard than the Tories, they are shouted down and told they should only be directing their anger to Johnson and co and not those who aren't in power. |
That's because the situation is now very different with Johnson & cronies' corruption & ever increasing destructive, far right, moves ever more apparent (potentially 10 year jail sentences for peaceful protests if they're deemed 'noisy' etc.). The need to GTTO to prevent further damage to the UK is now overwhelming in a way it's never been before.
While we still have FPTP, the only way the tories are able to remain in power is by remaining a united front. Labour need to do the same, not persist with their internal divisions & squabbling amongst themselves. | |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 06:29 - Mar 12 with 1053 views | tractordownsouth |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 19:20 - Mar 10 by Darth_Koont |
Interesting. Based on what?
I think they want power but I don’t see anything but tinkering around the edges and keeping newspapers and donors onside. Because that’s literally the only thing they’re doing now. |
I may be wrong but from his time as an MP he’s been fairly pragmatic, especially during Corbyn’s time in charge. It was clear from his front bench resignation that he didn’t support him but went along with it and was probably looking at it with a longer view - that he wouldn’t be able to gain support for his leadership without being seen to work with the factions he disagreed with. I think it’s a similar thing now - a lot of the policies are radical, just fewer in number as you’d expect at this stage. To me it gives an indication of where he would like to go but also demonstrating caution towards the public, who may be on board with his ideas individually but would find it overwhelming as a full package - similar to the Corbyn manifesto, but just to a smaller scale.
Again I may be way off. |  |
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 08:44 - Mar 12 with 1007 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Greetings from the Political Void on 21:06 - Mar 10 by Swansea_Blue |
It would make sense wouldn’t it. It seems that quite a few people are now asking the same question, so maybe this will end up with countries being more self reliant. For us, a windy country surrounded by sea, I’d like to think tidal and wind play a big part in that. But then we get political again as there are a lot of big energy vested interests in the right, and funding from the climate skeptic lobby, so there will be continued reluctance to make the change I suspect. |
Who would have thought that Australia, a huge empty hot place would cling so desperately to open cast coal. It is almost as if vested interests pull all of the strings.
Edit. Especially when you can do this
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/may/19/how-australia-can-u
Oh and then there's sodium. Somewhat more available than lithium...
https://www.cnbctv18.com/technology/explained-move-over-lithium-ion-batteries-so [Post edited 12 Mar 2022 8:53]
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| Greetings from the Political Void on 09:09 - Mar 12 with 989 views | GlasgowBlue |
Didn't you once protest to keep the coal industry going? | |
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