| Kieron Dyer - why now? 14:29 - Mar 23 with 5667 views | illusion_machine |
Really enjoyed listening to the the Kieron Dyer interview yesterday. It was good to hear that his physical and mental health are in a good state and I felt that he came across as very passionate about the club (and definitely wears his heart on his sleeve!).
I share Kieron's concerns around progression for our youth players. Even last season I was concerned that we weren't giving opportunities to youth players on the fringes (e.g. Jack Lankester) but also were reluctant to loan them out for experience (I recall Jack very nearly went to Salford on loan for the second half of the season but that fell through). This season, Paul Cook had to manage a large squad and essentially give our 'second' first team squad minutes in the cups to keep them happy, much to the detriment of youth player opportunities.
With McKenna coming in, he's essentially in firefighting mode and working out his best 11 for the remainder of the season. This is not the time to be gambling on youth players IMO. He also inherited an Ipswich team that had been knocked out of all of the cup competitions, so opportunities to promote the youth have been limited.
So whilst understanding where he's coming from (and recognising it had been a long standing challenge), I was left with the question "why now?". It seems from the interview that he had an epiphany during his Pro License course, but given the surprise from the club it all sounds very rushed. It sounds like this could have been handled better, for instance by voicing his concerns to the club (although perhaps he felt like he had exhausted that route) or by leaving at the end of the season.
I'd welcome any thoughts from the forum about this, as have been scratching my head since the interview! |  | | |  |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:36 - Mar 24 with 1244 views | hype313 |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 12:45 - Mar 24 by FrimleyBlue |
Disagree.
It's all well and good bringing players through but if you're applying for a managerial role at first team level you want to showcase why you'd be a good manager. Winning a league would go along way if you're being compared to others of similar level.
It's all well and good developing players but at first team level it's not about how many youngsters you're happy to play and try to develop it'll be to get promoted and win games, a different level of pressure.
Also it's the 2nd time kieron has left as a non player, let alone this time with only 4 games left. That will be noted when he's applying. |
Disagree, how many leagues did McKenna win? |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:37 - Mar 24 with 1246 views | itfcjoe |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 12:45 - Mar 24 by FrimleyBlue |
Disagree.
It's all well and good bringing players through but if you're applying for a managerial role at first team level you want to showcase why you'd be a good manager. Winning a league would go along way if you're being compared to others of similar level.
It's all well and good developing players but at first team level it's not about how many youngsters you're happy to play and try to develop it'll be to get promoted and win games, a different level of pressure.
Also it's the 2nd time kieron has left as a non player, let alone this time with only 4 games left. That will be noted when he's applying. |
His job is to bring players through, and make them first team ready, he talks in his interview about how he couldn’t play his way as Taylor said full backs have to do this.
His job isn’t to win the league,if he does that then great but it’s not going to get him noticed. When Matt Gill got the job here it was because he’d helped move Dodfrey, Aarons, Lewis and Cantwell into the scum first team - where did they finish in the league? Nowhere. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:39 - Mar 24 with 1237 views | Beckets |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:36 - Mar 24 by hype313 |
Disagree, how many leagues did McKenna win? |
I’ve already told Frimley. It’s one in 12 years of coaching but he chose to ignore it. |  | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:40 - Mar 24 with 1229 views | BiGDonnie |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:36 - Mar 24 by Beckets |
Exactly. That’s the criteria for success at under 18 and under 23 level not winning a league at that level. I was trying to get that message across to Frimley. |
Good luck with that hahaaaaaa |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:42 - Mar 24 with 1216 views | Beckets |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:40 - Mar 24 by BiGDonnie |
Good luck with that hahaaaaaa |
The phrase “banging your head against a brick wall” springs to mind. | | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:47 - Mar 24 with 1205 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:39 - Mar 24 by Beckets |
I’ve already told Frimley. It’s one in 12 years of coaching but he chose to ignore it. |
Where did I ignore it? I replied to you
You've chosen to ignore the reply. Unless you agree there is a massive difference with KM CV over KDs but don't wish to take your post back? [Post edited 24 Mar 2022 14:06]
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:55 - Mar 24 with 1198 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:37 - Mar 24 by itfcjoe |
His job is to bring players through, and make them first team ready, he talks in his interview about how he couldn’t play his way as Taylor said full backs have to do this.
His job isn’t to win the league,if he does that then great but it’s not going to get him noticed. When Matt Gill got the job here it was because he’d helped move Dodfrey, Aarons, Lewis and Cantwell into the scum first team - where did they finish in the league? Nowhere. |
We aren't talking about coaches coming and being a coach though so not sure where Gill comes into it.
Dyer wants to manage a first team. So far he's got u18 coach and league 1 under 23 manager to his cv. Absolutely having a league win against would help. Its not to say he wouldn't get a job without it...but it certainly would have been welcome by hiring chairman especially when besides a few cameo performances we've not had a raft of u23 players coming in and being a stable first team player, that itself is why dyer has left possibly.. and again fairplay if he doesn't feel its something he can stand anymore. But imo he's done himself over by not staying for 4 more games. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:04 - Mar 24 with 1184 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:36 - Mar 24 by Beckets |
Exactly. That’s the criteria for success at under 18 and under 23 level not winning a league at that level. I was trying to get that message across to Frimley. |
I've not said it's not success and developing players should absolutely be applauded when it's happened.
But we are talking about wanting a first team job.
So far it shows he's left town twice, and since managing town u23s we don't have 1 player who is has become a regular first team player.
Probably why he's left. No pathway etc... but it's not helped him walking away without that league winner tag which would have helped. Imo | |
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| Club Reaction on 10:52 - Mar 25 with 1068 views | C_Jam_Blue |
Unless I have missed something I am really surprised the club have not sought to comment on the points KD made. He is right that our under 23's have had barely a sniff of the 1st team this year which I don't think is healthy. I can appreciate it has been tricky for KMcK as the need for results has been paramount since he arrived with a large experienced squad to keep focused.
But I can't believe it's good to have the perception out there that we are a club that does not give homegrown players a chance, that's not something to convince ambitious young players and their parents to consider ITFC. Given his background you would imagine KMcK will be keen to develop our own young players but surely now would be a good time to say this and how the club see the progression of our young players into the 1st team. It would also be good to make an swift and impressive appointment to replace KD. | | | |
| Club Reaction on 11:06 - Mar 25 with 1044 views | Parsley |
| Club Reaction on 10:52 - Mar 25 by C_Jam_Blue |
Unless I have missed something I am really surprised the club have not sought to comment on the points KD made. He is right that our under 23's have had barely a sniff of the 1st team this year which I don't think is healthy. I can appreciate it has been tricky for KMcK as the need for results has been paramount since he arrived with a large experienced squad to keep focused.
But I can't believe it's good to have the perception out there that we are a club that does not give homegrown players a chance, that's not something to convince ambitious young players and their parents to consider ITFC. Given his background you would imagine KMcK will be keen to develop our own young players but surely now would be a good time to say this and how the club see the progression of our young players into the 1st team. It would also be good to make an swift and impressive appointment to replace KD. |
I think this year was always going to be difficult for the younger players. If you bring in ~20 for the first team that's not going to leave a lot of opportunities. I'd hope that with a quieter summer transfer window and a bit more stability there might be more chance next season as well as opportunities in the cups for players to stake a claim.
One thing that struck me from the interview and comments from players on Twitter is that it sounds like Kieron Dyer was really good working with the U23's. I know he has ambitions to be a manager but actually if he finds the right club he could make a difference to a lot of players as an U23's manager or first team coach. Just a shame that it's unlikely to be with Ipswich now. |  | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 18:04 - Mar 25 with 962 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Sad to see him go - sounds frustrated that he couldn’t bring through the youngsters.
Hope we see him back with the club some day, Ipswich through and through. | | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:20 - Mar 26 with 885 views | DinDjarin |
Reason he quit was he was told who was staying and who was being released from the U23s which was a process he was not included in.
Deff info. |  | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:35 - Mar 26 with 873 views | textbackup |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:37 - Mar 24 by itfcjoe |
His job is to bring players through, and make them first team ready, he talks in his interview about how he couldn’t play his way as Taylor said full backs have to do this.
His job isn’t to win the league,if he does that then great but it’s not going to get him noticed. When Matt Gill got the job here it was because he’d helped move Dodfrey, Aarons, Lewis and Cantwell into the scum first team - where did they finish in the league? Nowhere. |
wonder why he stuck around when lambert was here, if he wasnt allowed to play his style, and the place was in the gutter with aging pros picking up a wage with no ambition to better themselves.
you'd think Mckenna wouldnt be the type to totally ignore new things, and id hazard a guess the two could bounce off one another.
maybe he thought lambert was gonna get the boot anytime soon and he might stand a chance..... where as now, he sees a younger better manager here, and knows he hasnt got a hope in him going anytime soon. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:38 - Mar 26 with 868 views | DinDjarin |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:35 - Mar 26 by textbackup |
wonder why he stuck around when lambert was here, if he wasnt allowed to play his style, and the place was in the gutter with aging pros picking up a wage with no ambition to better themselves.
you'd think Mckenna wouldnt be the type to totally ignore new things, and id hazard a guess the two could bounce off one another.
maybe he thought lambert was gonna get the boot anytime soon and he might stand a chance..... where as now, he sees a younger better manager here, and knows he hasnt got a hope in him going anytime soon. |
I answered above why. And that comes from someone deep within the club. | | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 07:10 - Mar 26 with 855 views | textbackup |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:38 - Mar 26 by DinDjarin |
I answered above why. And that comes from someone deep within the club. |
i saw the reply after i'd posted.
seems weird, if true, he didnt tell the truth then, in his clearing the air interview. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 07:17 - Mar 26 with 832 views | itfcjoe |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:35 - Mar 26 by textbackup |
wonder why he stuck around when lambert was here, if he wasnt allowed to play his style, and the place was in the gutter with aging pros picking up a wage with no ambition to better themselves.
you'd think Mckenna wouldnt be the type to totally ignore new things, and id hazard a guess the two could bounce off one another.
maybe he thought lambert was gonna get the boot anytime soon and he might stand a chance..... where as now, he sees a younger better manager here, and knows he hasnt got a hope in him going anytime soon. |
A lot of young players were getting opportunities last year, and whilst Lambert doing a poor job Dyer was still quite green in the role and able to see the fruits of his Labour with who was playing games.
But guess it’s a mass of reasons, and as much as no pathway for the players there’s no pathway for him - and he’s just an U23s boss at a Cat 2 academy - it’s very low profile in trying to get noticed | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 07:22 - Mar 26 with 820 views | Churchman |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:14 - Mar 24 by Vic |
"EDIT: re his timing, you gotta do what you feel is right. Fair play to him. He's not feeling it's right, get out. That's called integrity. It's hardly shafting the club. Speculating whether it's a good or bad professional decision for him is irrelevant. He's being true to himself and will be happier for it, even if he, like we all do, sometimes have wry regrets with hindsight."
I don't think for a minute that he's shafted the club (not sure anyone has said that really have they?). And he might well be being true to himself and showing what he thinks is integrity - but for me it strikes at being a little petulant and emotionally driven. I don't think he's wrong, I personally just wonder about the vibes this decision gives off and therefore the wisdom of it.
I take Joe's point about the role being about bringing players through - but for the sake of sticking with it for another 5 games and not having the risk of any misunderstanding?? I'm not sure!
Still, it's all about opinions and I wish him well and hope he is able to get the role we all want him to sooner rather than later. Good luck KD, where ever and whatever you get to do next. |
I agree with this post.
I’ve listened to the whole interview and it was interesting that he was allowed to let his thoughts range. After reflecting on it, I’m still struggling to understand the timing of his decision. It doesn’t look the best to me, especially with his operation due at any time.
Where was the harm in seeing the last 5 games, possibly even the summer out? He clearly has a positive impact on players as shown by the messages he’s received from them. Why not use that skill for a month or two more doing what he does best and who knows what might happen in that time? It’s all opinions and of course all KDs call.
I was interested in McKenna’s response to questions on this. KD leaving has clearly come as a surprise but I didn’t sense any hostility between them. McKenna’s comments in respect of young players/first team timing made sense to me and I hope he does get to chat with KD in the coming weeks.
As with Vic and everyone else, I wish KD well, firstly in getting fit and well again and before, during or after getting his next role - hopefully a professionally fulfilling one that he richly deserves. |  | | |
| Club Reaction on 07:52 - Mar 26 with 797 views | Vic |
| Club Reaction on 10:52 - Mar 25 by C_Jam_Blue |
Unless I have missed something I am really surprised the club have not sought to comment on the points KD made. He is right that our under 23's have had barely a sniff of the 1st team this year which I don't think is healthy. I can appreciate it has been tricky for KMcK as the need for results has been paramount since he arrived with a large experienced squad to keep focused.
But I can't believe it's good to have the perception out there that we are a club that does not give homegrown players a chance, that's not something to convince ambitious young players and their parents to consider ITFC. Given his background you would imagine KMcK will be keen to develop our own young players but surely now would be a good time to say this and how the club see the progression of our young players into the 1st team. It would also be good to make an swift and impressive appointment to replace KD. |
I reckon KD’s comments yesterday pretty much nail his response - he absolutely sees a big future fore the youth. Absolutely no doubt that those comments were a direct response to KD’s. It seems like they get on well and I’m not reading hostility into what KM has said, but he needed to get the message out about this being a good place for young players, and he’s done that. We’ll done to both him and KD. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 09:33 - Mar 26 with 755 views | BondiBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:20 - Mar 26 by DinDjarin |
Reason he quit was he was told who was staying and who was being released from the U23s which was a process he was not included in.
Deff info. |
Wow. Who was involved, do you know? O'Neill, Klug, Probert?
Pretty disrespectful not to include the manager. And nonsensical. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 11:00 - Mar 26 with 725 views | ElephantintheRoom |
There are two reasons I suspect. One that many supporters share is that Ipswich Town are now Ipswich Town in name only and have absolutely nothing in common with what the club once was.
The other is that his job has been rendered utterly meaningless as the club simply refuses to engage in youth development. Add on the fact that he’s in poor health and presumably wealthy and it’s surprising he stuck at it for so long. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 11:38 - Mar 26 with 706 views | Dyland |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 11:00 - Mar 26 by ElephantintheRoom |
There are two reasons I suspect. One that many supporters share is that Ipswich Town are now Ipswich Town in name only and have absolutely nothing in common with what the club once was.
The other is that his job has been rendered utterly meaningless as the club simply refuses to engage in youth development. Add on the fact that he’s in poor health and presumably wealthy and it’s surprising he stuck at it for so long. |
Clubs that don't evolve with the professional business side of the game stagnate and eventually die. But you know that. I'd be more sympathetic to your bitter nostalgia if this wasn't twenty years of the same criticism from you. I empathise with the cynicism but why not let it go now and detach yourself from it all. You probably haven't set foot in PR for yonks anyway. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:50 - Mar 28 with 633 views | DinDjarin |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 09:33 - Mar 26 by BondiBlue |
Wow. Who was involved, do you know? O'Neill, Klug, Probert?
Pretty disrespectful not to include the manager. And nonsensical. |
I was informed Probert and have zero reasons to doubt the info as from a very credible source. | | | |
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