| KMac still has a bit to do with this team 16:11 - Mar 27 with 4342 views | Darth_Koont |
Yesterday’s overall performance was so good, and Plymouth barely landed a glove, but the concern about creating and converting enough chances still remains.
No blame attached as I don’t think it’s anything that has been particularly in his power given these are the strikers/attackers he inherited. But the result is that, despite settling the defensive side and making us much tougher to crack, we’re still only 3rd in the form league for McKenna’s 17 games.
Hopefully we can still squeeze into the playoffs and then I think our solidity would be a massive advantage. But more likely we’re looking at the next season in League One with a need to have our attack firing so that we are legitimately leading the way as the top 1 or 2 teams in the division.
The good news is that I’m confident of a good transfer window with McKenna in charge. I think if he’s allowed to address our attack and build it around 2 or 3 key players (Burns, Chaplin and ?) then I think we’ll be more enough for this division. And will be interesting to see if he can get something out of Harper, Edwards, El Mizouni, Dobra etc. with a clean slate and coming into a pretty solid structure otherwise.
A consistently performing, lynchpin striker who can give the attack a focal point and weigh in with 10 or more goals looks absolutely vital though. And I don’t really feel we have that at present or at least that Pigott can turn his Town career around to do that.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2022 11:54]
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:12 - Mar 28 with 875 views | GavTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 17:04 - Mar 27 by Darth_Koont |
Sorry! You’re right. Just checked again and I miscounted.
17 games and we’re 3rd in the form table. Although the teams ahead and around us have been doing similar for double that time.
Either way, we need to do better against those other promotion teams and finish our chances if we’re going to finish in the top2 next season. We arguably dropped 5 points against Sunderland through poor finishing and should never have come out of those two games 3 points in arrears. |
League table consisting of games from when he joined us:
https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:league-one/daterange/fromdate:2 |  |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:14 - Mar 28 with 863 views | JDB23 |
Yes, let us not forget that at the start of the season we were all saying this squad has been built to win the league. Just because Cook completely shafted it, doesn’t make that statement any less true.
McKenna has done a brilliant job but I still don’t think we look like a top 2 team just yet. It is not going to require big change to get us there though, which is obviously good. Given the right 3/4 signings in the Summer we should be competing at the very top. |  | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:16 - Mar 28 with 854 views | pointofblue |
So Liam Manning has proven McKenna could have done better?
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:31 - Mar 28 with 836 views | itfcjoe |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:14 - Mar 28 by JDB23 |
Yes, let us not forget that at the start of the season we were all saying this squad has been built to win the league. Just because Cook completely shafted it, doesn’t make that statement any less true.
McKenna has done a brilliant job but I still don’t think we look like a top 2 team just yet. It is not going to require big change to get us there though, which is obviously good. Given the right 3/4 signings in the Summer we should be competing at the very top. |
I don't see how we look anything but a top 2 side, we totally control every game now - Plymouth were the form team in the league and we made them look absolutely hopeless - they barely had a shot.
Obviously we need a few more goals, but actual controlling of games and we look untouchable |  |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 12:02 - Mar 28 with 784 views | tractorboy1978 |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:31 - Mar 28 by itfcjoe |
I don't see how we look anything but a top 2 side, we totally control every game now - Plymouth were the form team in the league and we made them look absolutely hopeless - they barely had a shot.
Obviously we need a few more goals, but actual controlling of games and we look untouchable |
The goals conceded is absolutely staggering - 6 in 17 games.
For comparison in the same number of games:
MK - 9
Rotherham - 10
Wigan - 16
Plymouth - 15
Sheff Wed - 21
Oxford - 25
Sunderland - 22
Doesn't take too much thought to work out that even a small improvement in goals scored takes a side already performing at 3rd in form during the period to a level that's virtually impossible to play against. [Post edited 28 Mar 2022 12:07]
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 12:04 - Mar 28 with 785 views | Asa |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:31 - Mar 28 by itfcjoe |
I don't see how we look anything but a top 2 side, we totally control every game now - Plymouth were the form team in the league and we made them look absolutely hopeless - they barely had a shot.
Obviously we need a few more goals, but actual controlling of games and we look untouchable |
I completely agree.
The defensive record alone, which is unsustainable you'd have to think over a season, but even with a massive drop off on current levels, would still be the sort of record that the top two achieve every season. We are currently defending at twice the sort of level we'd need in that respect.
Then there's the fact teams can keep solid at the back, but ultimately at the cost of going forward. We had 19 efforts on goal Saturday against a the form team that didn't concede in 6 before that.
We were the better side at MK Dons at doing the thing that they are famous for. Even Oxford, where they had 9 shots to our 3 in the first half, we tweaked it, ended up on something like 14 shots apiece and were a few seconds away from winning it.
For me, we need four players. An attacking left wing back, who can defend, if a left-sided Burns exists, another central midfielder to compliment Morsy, Evans and Bakinson (if we keep him) and two quality strikers, that presumably will see Jackson alongside them as an option.
With two proven strikers that fit the McKenna system we would be every bit the promotion favourites.
We are starting to dominate the very best teams in the division. Rotherham and Wigan will be pretty good yard sticks as to where we are now, but with a few new additions, which we will clearly be backed to go out and get, this feels very much now like the Burley sides that it felt a matter of time for, rather than the Lambert and Cook ones of we might be good enough, when we clearly weren't.
It's felt like that for a while but the sample size was small. We are now nearly at half a season under McKenna and having played most of the teams in the division. [Post edited 28 Mar 2022 12:08]
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 12:07 - Mar 28 with 777 views | Asa |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 12:02 - Mar 28 by tractorboy1978 |
The goals conceded is absolutely staggering - 6 in 17 games.
For comparison in the same number of games:
MK - 9
Rotherham - 10
Wigan - 16
Plymouth - 15
Sheff Wed - 21
Oxford - 25
Sunderland - 22
Doesn't take too much thought to work out that even a small improvement in goals scored takes a side already performing at 3rd in form during the period to a level that's virtually impossible to play against. [Post edited 28 Mar 2022 12:07]
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The most incredible thing for me is that it's not McKenna's last 17 games as such, it's his first 17.
He inherited a side that was conceding goals and immediately turned us into a defence performing so much better than the top two and two or three times better than all our other rivals.
With the players we already had (Thompson aside). Whilst winning a large percentage of his matches and creating countless chances too. | | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 12:55 - Mar 28 with 731 views | JDB23 |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 11:31 - Mar 28 by itfcjoe |
I don't see how we look anything but a top 2 side, we totally control every game now - Plymouth were the form team in the league and we made them look absolutely hopeless - they barely had a shot.
Obviously we need a few more goals, but actual controlling of games and we look untouchable |
Yes in our general play we look the best team in the league but we need to be better in the final third. We’ve also failed to win 3 in a row so have yet to show we’re capable of putting a string of wins together. Like I said we are close, but there is still another level to get to and I believe we will do next season. | | | |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 13:10 - Mar 28 with 711 views | PhilTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 12:07 - Mar 28 by Asa |
The most incredible thing for me is that it's not McKenna's last 17 games as such, it's his first 17.
He inherited a side that was conceding goals and immediately turned us into a defence performing so much better than the top two and two or three times better than all our other rivals.
With the players we already had (Thompson aside). Whilst winning a large percentage of his matches and creating countless chances too. |
It is notable that we've gone from a side which scored a lot of goals early in the season while also conceding a fair amount to one which lets in very few but also scores not too many. The balance of the side has obviously changed a great deal since KMc took over from PC. |  | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 13:20 - Mar 28 with 690 views | itfcjoe |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 13:10 - Mar 28 by PhilTWTD |
It is notable that we've gone from a side which scored a lot of goals early in the season while also conceding a fair amount to one which lets in very few but also scores not too many. The balance of the side has obviously changed a great deal since KMc took over from PC. |
I'm not sure that is the case - by the time Cook left we weren't scoring many and not conceding a huge amount - the change had already happened from the mad start to the season
In Cook's last 9 games it was:
Scored 2 - 3 times (Crewe, Oldham away, Arsenal U21s)
Scored 1 - 1 time (Oldham home)
Scored 0 - 5 times (Col U, Oxford, Sunderland, Rotherham, Barrow) | |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 14:10 - Mar 28 with 649 views | PhilTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 13:20 - Mar 28 by itfcjoe |
I'm not sure that is the case - by the time Cook left we weren't scoring many and not conceding a huge amount - the change had already happened from the mad start to the season
In Cook's last 9 games it was:
Scored 2 - 3 times (Crewe, Oldham away, Arsenal U21s)
Scored 1 - 1 time (Oldham home)
Scored 0 - 5 times (Col U, Oxford, Sunderland, Rotherham, Barrow) |
Was thinking more of the early stage of the season when I think we were top two or three in both goals scored and goals conceded.
I think it's fairly clear that Cook's outlook is one which is more gung-ho than McKenna's, which so far has been based on defensive solidity, although whether that's because he came in with a system which was starting to work and suited the personnel or is his natural inclination we'll probably discover over time.
That's not to say we're defensive under KMc, but I think one of the issues at times has been getting players into the penalty area, which may be due to the system. That said, we're getting better at it, as Saturday's goal with Morsy breaking into the box illustrated. | | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 14:56 - Mar 28 with 593 views | ITFC_Forever |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 14:10 - Mar 28 by PhilTWTD |
Was thinking more of the early stage of the season when I think we were top two or three in both goals scored and goals conceded.
I think it's fairly clear that Cook's outlook is one which is more gung-ho than McKenna's, which so far has been based on defensive solidity, although whether that's because he came in with a system which was starting to work and suited the personnel or is his natural inclination we'll probably discover over time.
That's not to say we're defensive under KMc, but I think one of the issues at times has been getting players into the penalty area, which may be due to the system. That said, we're getting better at it, as Saturday's goal with Morsy breaking into the box illustrated. |
We've been saying this for a few weeks now, as we usually play with 1 striker, we don't get enough bodies in the box - think how many crosses flash across the goal with no-one there to apply the finishing touch.
MK Dons was a classic example.... Kayden Jackson was running his socks off, pushing them down the pitch and taking their CBs to places they didn't want to go, but there was then a 20 yard square area on the edge of their box without a blue shirt.
That combined with the fact whoever the 1 up-front has been hasn't been particularly prolific, it does feel like these are the two remaining pieces of the jigsaw for now. |  |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:17 - Mar 28 with 575 views | PhilTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 14:56 - Mar 28 by ITFC_Forever |
We've been saying this for a few weeks now, as we usually play with 1 striker, we don't get enough bodies in the box - think how many crosses flash across the goal with no-one there to apply the finishing touch.
MK Dons was a classic example.... Kayden Jackson was running his socks off, pushing them down the pitch and taking their CBs to places they didn't want to go, but there was then a 20 yard square area on the edge of their box without a blue shirt.
That combined with the fact whoever the 1 up-front has been hasn't been particularly prolific, it does feel like these are the two remaining pieces of the jigsaw for now. |
Will be interesting to see whether four at the back gets a go at some point before the end of the season, assuming we're out of the play-off running with games to go. Might change the balance of the side a little, ideally without impacting on the defensive strength too much.
Another side point here, is that Woolfy is again making his mark when we're playing three at the back, as we were a couple of seasons ago when he first came to prominence. Has he ever shown similar form in a back four? | | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:31 - Mar 28 with 551 views | tractorboy1978 |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:17 - Mar 28 by PhilTWTD |
Will be interesting to see whether four at the back gets a go at some point before the end of the season, assuming we're out of the play-off running with games to go. Might change the balance of the side a little, ideally without impacting on the defensive strength too much.
Another side point here, is that Woolfy is again making his mark when we're playing three at the back, as we were a couple of seasons ago when he first came to prominence. Has he ever shown similar form in a back four? |
Three at the back just seems to suit us full stop - it gets the best out of all of them, including Burgess who got his move here off the back of playing left of a 3 at Accrington. | | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:40 - Mar 28 with 545 views | PhilTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:31 - Mar 28 by tractorboy1978 |
Three at the back just seems to suit us full stop - it gets the best out of all of them, including Burgess who got his move here off the back of playing left of a 3 at Accrington. |
I don't disagree other than the fact we've not been able to turn games we've dominated into victories on too many occasions. | | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:50 - Mar 28 with 521 views | Darth_Koont |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:31 - Mar 28 by tractorboy1978 |
Three at the back just seems to suit us full stop - it gets the best out of all of them, including Burgess who got his move here off the back of playing left of a 3 at Accrington. |
We seem to play pretty much a back 4 of Donacien, Woolfenden, Edmundson/Burgess and Thompson a lot of the time during games.
Certainly when we’re on the ball, and also a fair amount when we’re defending where 2 CBs are handling the strikers and Donacien comes back to help mop up.
I don’t think it’d require a major rejig. The only question is whether Donacien providing the extra man in attack is already one of our most effective weapons and we can’t really afford to lose that. | |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:53 - Mar 28 with 517 views | PhilTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:50 - Mar 28 by Darth_Koont |
We seem to play pretty much a back 4 of Donacien, Woolfenden, Edmundson/Burgess and Thompson a lot of the time during games.
Certainly when we’re on the ball, and also a fair amount when we’re defending where 2 CBs are handling the strikers and Donacien comes back to help mop up.
I don’t think it’d require a major rejig. The only question is whether Donacien providing the extra man in attack is already one of our most effective weapons and we can’t really afford to lose that. |
I seem to recall KMc referring to the system as 3/4 at the back.
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:55 - Mar 28 with 514 views | Darth_Koont |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:53 - Mar 28 by PhilTWTD |
I seem to recall KMc referring to the system as 3/4 at the back.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Yeah, that makes perfect sense based on what we’re seeing each game. | |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 16:16 - Mar 28 with 480 views | itfcjoe |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 15:17 - Mar 28 by PhilTWTD |
Will be interesting to see whether four at the back gets a go at some point before the end of the season, assuming we're out of the play-off running with games to go. Might change the balance of the side a little, ideally without impacting on the defensive strength too much.
Another side point here, is that Woolfy is again making his mark when we're playing three at the back, as we were a couple of seasons ago when he first came to prominence. Has he ever shown similar form in a back four? |
Four at the back had an outing on Saturday, we weren’t lined up as a 3 at all from my view | |
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 16:37 - Mar 28 with 442 views | itfcsuth |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 16:16 - Mar 28 by itfcjoe |
Four at the back had an outing on Saturday, we weren’t lined up as a 3 at all from my view |
I think KM spoke about that post game.
Burns was very high on Saturday, so it did look like a 4 at the back at times with Donacien as a RB.
He mentioned it was to overload the midfield by pushing Aluko inside, Celina into the no.10 role, and Burns more of an out and out winger. |  | | |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 19:16 - Mar 28 with 370 views | PhilTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 16:16 - Mar 28 by itfcjoe |
Four at the back had an outing on Saturday, we weren’t lined up as a 3 at all from my view |
Does look like that at times, the 3/4 as he puts it. It's certainly an asymmetric system with Burns further ahead than Thompson and Donacien pushed up more than Edmundson/Burgess, certainly when we're on the ball and in control as we were for most of the first half.
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| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 19:18 - Mar 28 with 367 views | PhilTWTD |
| KMac still has a bit to do with this team on 16:37 - Mar 28 by itfcsuth |
I think KM spoke about that post game.
Burns was very high on Saturday, so it did look like a 4 at the back at times with Donacien as a RB.
He mentioned it was to overload the midfield by pushing Aluko inside, Celina into the no.10 role, and Burns more of an out and out winger. |
I think what he said was that Morsy and Aluko were on the left and right of a diamond with Celina as a number 10 and Bakinson as the deeper-lying midfielder. | | | |
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