| So 18%….. 09:29 - Apr 1 with 4277 views | Matt_Netherlands |
Two things I’d love to know…
How does this compare to the UK and European average for professional clubs?
What % of the Female UK population as a whole would claim to have an interest in football?
Snot really trying to be provocative here, but genuinely interested in these things before we see possibly misleading headlines about the ITFC supporter base.
To help answer the second, according to Statista only 14% of women claim to watch Premier League football regularly, so you could potentially argue that it’s even less for the EFL.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093874/share-of-british-adults-that-watch-m
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| So 18%….. on 12:42 - Apr 1 with 1540 views | GeoffSentence |
| So 18%….. on 12:17 - Apr 1 by Dyland |
Do fewer women go because it's an an intimidating or sexist environment though?
I don't get how this is even a story, but I don't believe there are loads of women avoiding cos it's too blokey per se. I may be wrong. |
I think it is because they prefer a more female dominated atmosphere. Men are too 'growly'. |  |
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| So 18%….. on 12:46 - Apr 1 with 1527 views | gtsb1966 |
| So 18%….. on 12:31 - Apr 1 by jayessess |
Describing women collectively as "screeching" is fairly straightforwardly misogynist, no twisting required. |
You're obviously easily offended by nothing. Too many like you these days. |  | | |
| So 18%….. on 13:00 - Apr 1 with 1516 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| So 18%….. on 12:46 - Apr 1 by gtsb1966 |
You're obviously easily offended by nothing. Too many like you these days. |
So are you saying that young boys shouldn't watch football either because they're too "screechy"? |  |
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| So 18%….. on 13:02 - Apr 1 with 1512 views | Dyland |
| So 18%….. on 13:00 - Apr 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
So are you saying that young boys shouldn't watch football either because they're too "screechy"? |
I suggest they sit somewhere far away from me. We took my seven year old nephew and his pals a while back and they were incredibly screechily irritating :) |  |
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| So 18%….. on 13:05 - Apr 1 with 1506 views | Veggie |
| So 18%….. on 10:13 - Apr 1 by HighgateBlue |
Can you get season tickets for the women's team? If so, I assume this article is only referring to the men's team, but without saying so.
I don't see 18% as being toooo bad. It would be fascinating to see it broken down by age cohorts. You would expect the over 50s and even over 40s to be more male-dominated than younger cohorts, I would think. And the survey on this website every year reveals us lot to be way more male (quite possibly stale and pale, but maybe that's just me) than an 82:18 split.
The 18% figure needs to rise, and I am sure it will. This "Her Game Too" entity putting pressure on clubs can't be a bad thing. We're a club with a bigger capacity than we can fill just at the moment, so increasing female attendance is a win for everyone. And our women's team is flying high. The next thing that needs to happen is to open up promotion from the lower tiers of the female game, to encourage growth and aspiration rather than stagnation.
I won't suggest an all-male cheerleader troupe, but it can't be worse than many matchday entertainment offerings across the country! |
“The 18% figure needs to rise”
Why exactly does it need to rise? As far as I am aware there are no exclusions on women buying tickets for any areas of the ground so if they wish to attend they are just as entitled to as men. I don’t get why this is such an issue for some.
In fact I would suggest nearly 1 in 5 fans being female at a football match is pretty good going. For anyone who has attended a Test Match at Lords, I wouldn’t be surprised if the ratio was 1 woman to 50 men. [Post edited 1 Apr 2022 13:09]
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| So 18%….. on 13:11 - Apr 1 with 1493 views | footers |
| So 18%….. on 13:00 - Apr 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
So are you saying that young boys shouldn't watch football either because they're too "screechy"? |
gtsb's just strongly stating his preference for being surrounded by men, big, strong, sweaty men. Manly men. Men's men. Men with hairy arses, deep voices and buff bodies. What on earth is wrong with that. |  |
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| So 18%….. on 13:12 - Apr 1 with 1494 views | Illinoisblue |
It’s a deliberately provocative tweet - the unfounded use of ‘staggering’ when they admit they don’t have data from any other club - to generate attention. So job done in that respect although not sure it he generally helps their cause. |  |
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| So 18%….. on 13:12 - Apr 1 with 1482 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| So 18%….. on 13:11 - Apr 1 by footers |
gtsb's just strongly stating his preference for being surrounded by men, big, strong, sweaty men. Manly men. Men's men. Men with hairy arses, deep voices and buff bodies. What on earth is wrong with that. |
Actually, you have a point there.... | |
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| So 18%….. on 13:14 - Apr 1 with 1479 views | footers |
| So 18%….. on 13:12 - Apr 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
Actually, you have a point there.... |
I'd prefer to be surrounded by women, to be honest. But to each their own. | |
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| So 18%….. on 13:15 - Apr 1 with 1473 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| So 18%….. on 13:14 - Apr 1 by footers |
I'd prefer to be surrounded by women, to be honest. But to each their own. |
I could understand that approach in the pre-McKenna years, but now? | |
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| So 18%….. on 13:16 - Apr 1 with 1475 views | TJS |
A lot less females are interested in attending football matches than men.
I don't know why people get so worked up over this.
It is acceptable for women to not be interested in going to football matches for non-sinister reasons. |  | | |
| So 18%….. on 13:16 - Apr 1 with 1472 views | STYG |
| So 18%….. on 13:05 - Apr 1 by Veggie |
“The 18% figure needs to rise”
Why exactly does it need to rise? As far as I am aware there are no exclusions on women buying tickets for any areas of the ground so if they wish to attend they are just as entitled to as men. I don’t get why this is such an issue for some.
In fact I would suggest nearly 1 in 5 fans being female at a football match is pretty good going. For anyone who has attended a Test Match at Lords, I wouldn’t be surprised if the ratio was 1 woman to 50 men. [Post edited 1 Apr 2022 13:09]
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I don't see anything wrong with what they are saying and, if it does rise, we are the winners because it's adding a load more fans on top of the existing support.
I know this is all my own opinion, so it's obviously unsupported with facts, but I would not be at all surprised if there are women out there who have either had bad experiences at football and decided not to come back, or would like to attend, but are put off by what is ultimately a very masculine environment, one where a percentage of men will have been drinking and one where a number will also use it as their opportunity to get worked up or aggressive, as we have all seen time and time again.
It's no stretch of the imagination, as men, to understand why that might be off-putting.
We can all do our bit to ensure that any racist, sexist, homophobic behaviour or any other negative behaviour is called out and things do largely slowly get better and it takes time. I don't think it's ridiculous to state I have heard vastly far less racist and homophobic chanting or language in the last 5 years than the 5 years before that.
Ultimately, there should be no reason why I, as a straight, white male, feel any more welcomed at football than a woman, a gay person or someone of colour, but the fact simply is that currently I do. We can't live in a world without an openly gay high profile footballer, because of the fear they'd get of abuse and discrimination and expect that women aren't abused at matches by the same sort of small-minded idiots.
There may be deeper issues with the levels of interest in football in women, again for obvious long-standing cultural reasons and it's never going to be a 50/50 male / female split but I agree that the figure does need to rise, until we get to a point in society where the only factor stopping women and girls from attending is not being interested in football and not the other considerations that are sadly likely to still apply in this kind of environment. [Post edited 1 Apr 2022 13:25]
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| So 18%….. on 13:19 - Apr 1 with 1464 views | footers |
| So 18%….. on 13:15 - Apr 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
I could understand that approach in the pre-McKenna years, but now? |
Bloke's a fraud. I spent about thirty quid on his book and CD but still smoke like a chimney. | |
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| So 18%….. on 13:19 - Apr 1 with 1465 views | STYG |
| So 18%….. on 13:12 - Apr 1 by Illinoisblue |
It’s a deliberately provocative tweet - the unfounded use of ‘staggering’ when they admit they don’t have data from any other club - to generate attention. So job done in that respect although not sure it he generally helps their cause. |
Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, this seems the first mistake in what has been a very successful campaign for which those involved should receive a lot of praise.
The figure seems about right and we can only go on that when there is no other data. It comes across as naive as if they expected it to be 50% and it's 18% and that's staggering.
I'd be very surprised if, once data from all clubs was available, we weren't in the top half or even top third of clubs in the country for female attendance.
Having been to 63/92 grounds, I'd like to think I've got a reasonable grasp of estimating at some of the other clubs around. | | | |
| So 18%….. on 13:21 - Apr 1 with 1458 views | STYG |
| So 18%….. on 13:16 - Apr 1 by TJS |
A lot less females are interested in attending football matches than men.
I don't know why people get so worked up over this.
It is acceptable for women to not be interested in going to football matches for non-sinister reasons. |
Their campaign isn't to get every woman to love football.
It's (rightly) to ensure that every woman who wants to go to football should feel safe and able to do so without physical or verbal abuse.
As I stated earlier, HGT have done many, many good things, but the wording of the tweet and the background to comparable data, feels like a rare mistake for them, making ITFC out to be behind the times or suggestively unwelcoming for women and girls, when it could even turn out we are the best in the country once other clubs have been surveyed. [Post edited 1 Apr 2022 13:27]
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| So 18%….. on 13:26 - Apr 1 with 1444 views | FifeITFC |
| So 18%….. on 13:05 - Apr 1 by Veggie |
“The 18% figure needs to rise”
Why exactly does it need to rise? As far as I am aware there are no exclusions on women buying tickets for any areas of the ground so if they wish to attend they are just as entitled to as men. I don’t get why this is such an issue for some.
In fact I would suggest nearly 1 in 5 fans being female at a football match is pretty good going. For anyone who has attended a Test Match at Lords, I wouldn’t be surprised if the ratio was 1 woman to 50 men. [Post edited 1 Apr 2022 13:09]
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That's what I thought. Looking at their Twitter account, they suggest their tackling sexism (which I don't have a problem doing). But are they challenging Ipswich's figure because they think there's an issue of sexist language at Portman Road?
Putting that aside, as far as I'm aware, there's no restrictions on women attending our games so either you're saying we're sexist because 18% is "staggeringly low", or maybe it's just that there aren't more women interested in attending football matches or owning a season ticket.
That's the simple question. But I am not sure you can "force" more women to like football, as much as you can't force more men to get their nails done, for example.
Is their own expectation unrealistic? Are they saying that we're a sexist bunch? If no, you can't force women to take a bigger interest. |  |
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| So 18%….. on 13:30 - Apr 1 with 1438 views | STYG |
| So 18%….. on 13:26 - Apr 1 by FifeITFC |
That's what I thought. Looking at their Twitter account, they suggest their tackling sexism (which I don't have a problem doing). But are they challenging Ipswich's figure because they think there's an issue of sexist language at Portman Road?
Putting that aside, as far as I'm aware, there's no restrictions on women attending our games so either you're saying we're sexist because 18% is "staggeringly low", or maybe it's just that there aren't more women interested in attending football matches or owning a season ticket.
That's the simple question. But I am not sure you can "force" more women to like football, as much as you can't force more men to get their nails done, for example.
Is their own expectation unrealistic? Are they saying that we're a sexist bunch? If no, you can't force women to take a bigger interest. |
Their message here is muddled.
Their campaign is for an environment where all women and girls, that like football, can feel welcome and safe attending.
What they have instead done is infer ITFC has a problem, without seemingly any data to determine whether we have a problem, whether we are excellent or abysmal at welcoming and protecting females.
Nobody can argue females are free from all abuse at football and that it never happens. But the tweet wrongly suggests, without data it seems, that we are staggering behind all the other clubs - which doesn't feel the case to me and - far more importantly - a lot of female ITFC fans that comment on HGT stuff generally do so about how good ITFC is when lots of female fans of other clubs have talked about incidents. | | | |
| So 18%….. on 13:45 - Apr 1 with 1414 views | itfcjoe |
| So 18%….. on 13:16 - Apr 1 by STYG |
I don't see anything wrong with what they are saying and, if it does rise, we are the winners because it's adding a load more fans on top of the existing support.
I know this is all my own opinion, so it's obviously unsupported with facts, but I would not be at all surprised if there are women out there who have either had bad experiences at football and decided not to come back, or would like to attend, but are put off by what is ultimately a very masculine environment, one where a percentage of men will have been drinking and one where a number will also use it as their opportunity to get worked up or aggressive, as we have all seen time and time again.
It's no stretch of the imagination, as men, to understand why that might be off-putting.
We can all do our bit to ensure that any racist, sexist, homophobic behaviour or any other negative behaviour is called out and things do largely slowly get better and it takes time. I don't think it's ridiculous to state I have heard vastly far less racist and homophobic chanting or language in the last 5 years than the 5 years before that.
Ultimately, there should be no reason why I, as a straight, white male, feel any more welcomed at football than a woman, a gay person or someone of colour, but the fact simply is that currently I do. We can't live in a world without an openly gay high profile footballer, because of the fear they'd get of abuse and discrimination and expect that women aren't abused at matches by the same sort of small-minded idiots.
There may be deeper issues with the levels of interest in football in women, again for obvious long-standing cultural reasons and it's never going to be a 50/50 male / female split but I agree that the figure does need to rise, until we get to a point in society where the only factor stopping women and girls from attending is not being interested in football and not the other considerations that are sadly likely to still apply in this kind of environment. [Post edited 1 Apr 2022 13:25]
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Maybe some people like going into a more masculine environment - including some of the women that currently go. There has to be room for both and whilst some people of both sexes may find the North Stand too much for them, there are others areas in the ground for that
There are some behaviours that have been stamped out, there are more that need to be - but football is better when it has that edge.
Away games can be an issue where everyone has to mix more, I think important to try and separate those who want to go and have a sing, a stand and a swear somehow - but on a personal note I'd rather go to an away game surrounded by them than those that want to go and have a sit down and chat and maybe watch the game more |  |
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| So 18%….. on 13:52 - Apr 1 with 1406 views | itfcjoe |
| So 18%….. on 13:30 - Apr 1 by STYG |
Their message here is muddled.
Their campaign is for an environment where all women and girls, that like football, can feel welcome and safe attending.
What they have instead done is infer ITFC has a problem, without seemingly any data to determine whether we have a problem, whether we are excellent or abysmal at welcoming and protecting females.
Nobody can argue females are free from all abuse at football and that it never happens. But the tweet wrongly suggests, without data it seems, that we are staggering behind all the other clubs - which doesn't feel the case to me and - far more importantly - a lot of female ITFC fans that comment on HGT stuff generally do so about how good ITFC is when lots of female fans of other clubs have talked about incidents. |
I think it needs to not just compare to the other clubs, but also to how many watch it on TV as well, how many are interested in it and the like.
My sister had a season ticket for years but doesn't now, we went as kids, her boyfirend went and when they split up at about 22-23 her new partner and now husband didn't go much and she drifted away from it.
My wife will go now and again and enjoy it, my Mum will be the same - between the 3 of them they've been to hundreds of games but none would countenance watching it on TV ever
Certain activities are always going to be more naturally appealing to either gender, by focussing on this 'staggering' number they seem to go away from a message that I think most would agree with (i.e. women shouldn't be put off attending football for any reason and should feel safe), to a message that some wouldn't agree with or don't feel is realistic (i.e. there should be equal representation at football) | |
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| So 18%….. on 14:02 - Apr 1 with 1397 views | STYG |
| So 18%….. on 13:52 - Apr 1 by itfcjoe |
I think it needs to not just compare to the other clubs, but also to how many watch it on TV as well, how many are interested in it and the like.
My sister had a season ticket for years but doesn't now, we went as kids, her boyfirend went and when they split up at about 22-23 her new partner and now husband didn't go much and she drifted away from it.
My wife will go now and again and enjoy it, my Mum will be the same - between the 3 of them they've been to hundreds of games but none would countenance watching it on TV ever
Certain activities are always going to be more naturally appealing to either gender, by focussing on this 'staggering' number they seem to go away from a message that I think most would agree with (i.e. women shouldn't be put off attending football for any reason and should feel safe), to a message that some wouldn't agree with or don't feel is realistic (i.e. there should be equal representation at football) |
Exactly right.
As I have said, HGT have done loads of good, but it seems like here they should have waited until they had data from all clubs, worked alongside all clubs to make it more inclusive for women and then worked with the clubs that were lower than the rest, once they understood all of the reasons behind that.
There could be clubs that are low down the table that have a slightly lower percentage of females living in the area for example. Their tweet seems massively premature.
You make a good point that some women will like the environment. It's obviously insulting to suggest all blokes are drinking and swearing and all women want a nice sit down and to watch the match without incident. I've dated a couple of girls who had a season ticket with me (at different times obviously), would have a few drinks before and swear with the best of them.
All clubs should be working towards making football more inclusive for everyone, but especially women, children and all genders, sexualities and ethnicities.
But definitely HGT need to have all the data. I took my son to a birthday party recently where there were 24 mums and 3 dads across about 25-26 kids in total. Now there are obviously reasons for that disparity and again, HGT need to have all the data of how many women want to attend against how many actually do and then work to solve those issues, rather than a blanket 'this looks bad' which seems to be, as you say, against the actual message they want to convey. | | | |
| So 18%….. on 14:09 - Apr 1 with 1389 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
It's because ladies prefer to stay at home sewing doilies and looking after lovely kittens. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| So 18%….. on 17:19 - Apr 1 with 1330 views | NeedhamChris |
Out of interest - how many of you who don't see why women wouldn't attend are going to be singing 'she's a whore' or die die delia delia die' tomorrow? | |
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| So 18%….. on 17:46 - Apr 1 with 1296 views | Freddies_Ears |
| So 18%….. on 09:58 - Apr 1 by GeoffSentence |
I am pretty sure that our female support used to be the highest or amongst the highest in the country.
As I delve back into my brain archives I recall there was a survey back in maybe the nineties or noughties and we came top for female support.
But I can't find it in any news archives, though my searches keep turning up loads of stuff about womens football in general rather than just support figures. |
I remember that report too, I think from around 2003. We had the second-highest proportion of female season ticket holders, at around 23%. Just above us was Leicester City.
We had benefited from many families enjoying the 2000 play-off final, and then being able to get season tickets as we increased the stadium capacity. Interesting that it has fallen back a bit. | | | |
| So 18%….. on 18:59 - Apr 1 with 1274 views | Veggie |
| So 18%….. on 13:19 - Apr 1 by footers |
Bloke's a fraud. I spent about thirty quid on his book and CD but still smoke like a chimney. |
He’s also ‘very close’ to Simon Cowell. Apparently. | | | |
| So 18%….. on 19:03 - Apr 1 with 1274 views | FifeITFC |
| So 18%….. on 17:19 - Apr 1 by NeedhamChris |
Out of interest - how many of you who don't see why women wouldn't attend are going to be singing 'she's a whore' or die die delia delia die' tomorrow? |
I think you could apply that argument to a range of chants that may upset one demographic or another. | |
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