| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 07:57 - Jan 12 with 4471 views | bluejacko |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 20:26 - Jan 11 by ChorleyBoy |
"There was no real thread of invasion during the cold war."
"All the worry was around nuclear war, not invasions."
LOL. How silly of me to suggest there was no reasonable threat of invasion. That's right, shame on me for exaggerating. There was ONLY worry of a nuclear war!. So that's okay then. Are you for real?
I apologise for exaggerating the threat. LOL.
And FFS, how dare you call me an apologist for anyone. I will not tolerate your efforts to misrepresent me through libel or slander. Kindly pipe down a bit, please. I actually prefer to base my search for thetruth based on the evidence at my disposal and form my opinions on that rather than follow any partisan or nationalistic rhetoric. I will continue to do that while I still live in a free country.
"Insights into Russian fears" - What? |
Well you are not doing much research are you if you can’t work out the force levels of NATO countries which show quite clearly they are of no threat to Russia in the offensive mode at all!
Defensively it is a different matter.
If you do your research you will find that during the Cold War all scenarios led to the believe that the Soviets would go nuclear after the first week if NATO managed to stop them east of the Rhine!
As for windows and locks etc have you failed to see various high level Orcs jumping/pushed out of them? |  | |  |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:50 - Jan 12 with 4402 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 07:34 - Jan 12 by StokieBlue |
You are a Russian apologist.
You've posted multiple times in this long thread and virtually all of them are "but both sides" nonsense trying to excuse Russian actions or blame NATO even when it's been pointed out how blaming them is falling for Russian propaganda.
It's not misrepresentation, libel or slander, I could link all the posts here easily enough. To claim it's based on evidence is ridiculous, much like some of your other posting.
This faux outrage is pathetic, own your opinions and if you think it's misrepresentation then take it up with Phil. If anything, calling it misrepresentation is slandering me.
SB |
I don't know how old you are, but your posts on this topic show incredible naivety. It appears you think EVERYTHING you hear from our side of the conflict in our media is true and factual, and anyone who expresses a doubt about this information is not only falling for but also peddling Russian propaganda. It's a rather childish way of interpreting news during conflicts.
One of Britain's greatest, Winston Churchill, even said:
"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."
What's that if not an admission of the need for home grown propaganda?
Now, at times of war we all have to do our part, and when we have missiles raining down on our own heads, we will naturally adopt a more polarised interpretation of the truth for our own survival. But at the moment, I'm told that NATO are not at war with Russia. I'm told that this is a scrap between Russia and Ukraine, so I'm going to exercise a bit of rational thinking and assume that the truth lies at some point between the propaganda pumped out by both sides. I can't know where the truth is exactly but I can exercise scepticism of anything I read from any side.
You are a good citizen StokieBlue, you're parroting all the right things but I don't think you are doing much good apart from fanning the flames for more war at the expense of hundreds of thousands of innocent (mainly Ukrainian) lives.
So kindly stop calling me a Russian apologist and start exercising a little less credulity of the media you access. |  | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:01 - Jan 12 with 4381 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 07:57 - Jan 12 by bluejacko |
Well you are not doing much research are you if you can’t work out the force levels of NATO countries which show quite clearly they are of no threat to Russia in the offensive mode at all!
Defensively it is a different matter.
If you do your research you will find that during the Cold War all scenarios led to the believe that the Soviets would go nuclear after the first week if NATO managed to stop them east of the Rhine!
As for windows and locks etc have you failed to see various high level Orcs jumping/pushed out of them? |
I've seen every type of war propaganda possible from both sides of many conflicts.
Babies on bayonets, babies snatched from incubators, soldiers being fed Viagra, bombed hospitals ...
Call me cynical, but in a war, as soon as I feel someone is trying to shape my opinions my overtly emotional reporting, I naturally step back and take on a position of scepticism. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:20 - Jan 12 with 4361 views | StokieBlue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:50 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
I don't know how old you are, but your posts on this topic show incredible naivety. It appears you think EVERYTHING you hear from our side of the conflict in our media is true and factual, and anyone who expresses a doubt about this information is not only falling for but also peddling Russian propaganda. It's a rather childish way of interpreting news during conflicts.
One of Britain's greatest, Winston Churchill, even said:
"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."
What's that if not an admission of the need for home grown propaganda?
Now, at times of war we all have to do our part, and when we have missiles raining down on our own heads, we will naturally adopt a more polarised interpretation of the truth for our own survival. But at the moment, I'm told that NATO are not at war with Russia. I'm told that this is a scrap between Russia and Ukraine, so I'm going to exercise a bit of rational thinking and assume that the truth lies at some point between the propaganda pumped out by both sides. I can't know where the truth is exactly but I can exercise scepticism of anything I read from any side.
You are a good citizen StokieBlue, you're parroting all the right things but I don't think you are doing much good apart from fanning the flames for more war at the expense of hundreds of thousands of innocent (mainly Ukrainian) lives.
So kindly stop calling me a Russian apologist and start exercising a little less credulity of the media you access. |
Nice attempt but that's not what I've done.
As for "parroting", nice to see you once again pushing the Russian trope that is Ukraine and NATOs fault that innocent Ukrainians are dying because they won't just accept losing large parts of their country.
That's implicitly accepting "might is right" and it's an awful stance to continually push. Russia is completely in the wrong in this war and you're attempts to "poison the well" in much the same way as you did with vaccines need to be challenged.
As for only knowing about one side, you have no idea what I know about the internal workings of Russia or how their propaganda works.
I'll continue to call you a Russian apologist whilst you continue to do it. As I said, if you feel it's incorrect or a slight then please take it up with Phil.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:43 - Jan 12 with 4322 views | Churchman |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:01 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
I've seen every type of war propaganda possible from both sides of many conflicts.
Babies on bayonets, babies snatched from incubators, soldiers being fed Viagra, bombed hospitals ...
Call me cynical, but in a war, as soon as I feel someone is trying to shape my opinions my overtly emotional reporting, I naturally step back and take on a position of scepticism. |
Again, you are trying to equalise things. Yes, propaganda and rhetoric has always played its part but even in WW2, you could read between the lines at the time and broadly see the picture, oven if your only sources were papers, BBC and The War Illustrated.
During the Cold War the RAF crew life expectancy in the event of a Russian attack was one sortie. Just the one. It’s just how it was and everyone hoped the worse would never happen and got on with the job. Btw, the exception were Wildenrath’s Harriers that could land anywhere, park in forests etc, take off from roads etc - providing you could re-arm and refuel.
The basic reality is that most of Putin’s stuff is for domestic consumption. If a few outside buy it, so much the better. The sheer facts are that he sees Ukraine and at her countries around Russia as his territory. USSR, Eastern Bloc. He’s made this perfectly clear. His excuses for his actions are also perfectly obvious - because others have used them before (Hitler and Stalin).
Most of the rest of the world see Ukraine as a sovereign country, it’s borders ratified by treaty, free to choose its own destiny. Putin has invaded it. There is no equivalence, no justification, no excuses any more than there was for Germany stealing the Sudetenland then all Czechoslovakia then Poland. Putin is a simple man and the situation in Ukraine is just as simple. [Post edited 12 Jan 2023 17:27]
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:24 - Jan 12 with 4237 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:01 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
I've seen every type of war propaganda possible from both sides of many conflicts.
Babies on bayonets, babies snatched from incubators, soldiers being fed Viagra, bombed hospitals ...
Call me cynical, but in a war, as soon as I feel someone is trying to shape my opinions my overtly emotional reporting, I naturally step back and take on a position of scepticism. |
Maybe you could be a little sceptical of the Russian propaganda also.
Putin in power.
Clearly the threat from NATO is the problem. |  | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:34 - Jan 12 with 4209 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:43 - Jan 12 by Churchman |
Again, you are trying to equalise things. Yes, propaganda and rhetoric has always played its part but even in WW2, you could read between the lines at the time and broadly see the picture, oven if your only sources were papers, BBC and The War Illustrated.
During the Cold War the RAF crew life expectancy in the event of a Russian attack was one sortie. Just the one. It’s just how it was and everyone hoped the worse would never happen and got on with the job. Btw, the exception were Wildenrath’s Harriers that could land anywhere, park in forests etc, take off from roads etc - providing you could re-arm and refuel.
The basic reality is that most of Putin’s stuff is for domestic consumption. If a few outside buy it, so much the better. The sheer facts are that he sees Ukraine and at her countries around Russia as his territory. USSR, Eastern Bloc. He’s made this perfectly clear. His excuses for his actions are also perfectly obvious - because others have used them before (Hitler and Stalin).
Most of the rest of the world see Ukraine as a sovereign country, it’s borders ratified by treaty, free to choose its own destiny. Putin has invaded it. There is no equivalence, no justification, no excuses any more than there was for Germany stealing the Sudetenland then all Czechoslovakia then Poland. Putin is a simple man and the situation in Ukraine is just as simple. [Post edited 12 Jan 2023 17:27]
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"The basic reality is that most of Putin’s stuff is for domestic consumption."
Is it? What makes you say that?
"The sheer facts are that he sees Ukraine and at her countries around Russia as his territory. USSR, Eastern Bloc. He’s made this perfectly clear."
When/how did he make these "sheer facts" perfectly clear?
"His excuses for his actions are also perfectly obvious - because others have used them before (Hitler and Stalin)."
What are his excuses? Again some evidence would be appreciated? | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:35 - Jan 12 with 4146 views | Churchman |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:34 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
"The basic reality is that most of Putin’s stuff is for domestic consumption."
Is it? What makes you say that?
"The sheer facts are that he sees Ukraine and at her countries around Russia as his territory. USSR, Eastern Bloc. He’s made this perfectly clear."
When/how did he make these "sheer facts" perfectly clear?
"His excuses for his actions are also perfectly obvious - because others have used them before (Hitler and Stalin)."
What are his excuses? Again some evidence would be appreciated? |
You will find my rationale in this thread and others, in addition to what Putin and his useful idiots have actually said. I could comb through and provide links etc, but I’d just be repeating myself and what others have said and provided.
You are entitled to your view and entitled to express it - unlike many people in countries like Russia. | | | |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:35 - Jan 12 with 4107 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:34 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
"The basic reality is that most of Putin’s stuff is for domestic consumption."
Is it? What makes you say that?
"The sheer facts are that he sees Ukraine and at her countries around Russia as his territory. USSR, Eastern Bloc. He’s made this perfectly clear."
When/how did he make these "sheer facts" perfectly clear?
"His excuses for his actions are also perfectly obvious - because others have used them before (Hitler and Stalin)."
What are his excuses? Again some evidence would be appreciated? |
Abuse reported for asking questions?
Wow. What is happening to my country? | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:42 - Jan 12 with 4079 views | Churchman |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:35 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
Abuse reported for asking questions?
Wow. What is happening to my country? |
Not by me. If so apols, fat fingers on my part. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:46 - Jan 12 with 4076 views | StokieBlue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:35 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
Abuse reported for asking questions?
Wow. What is happening to my country? |
Why haven't you put the Russian flag in there?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:46 - Jan 12 with 4072 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:42 - Jan 12 by Churchman |
Not by me. If so apols, fat fingers on my part. |
Well check. Look at your sent PM messages. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:52 - Jan 12 with 4063 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:46 - Jan 12 by StokieBlue |
Why haven't you put the Russian flag in there?
SB |
I'm happy to do so, but then I would also put the Union flag there too (because of Julian Assange) and many more flags besides.
More to the point SB, was it you who reported my post as abusive? | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:04 - Jan 12 with 4045 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:24 - Jan 12 by Eireannach_gorm |
Maybe you could be a little sceptical of the Russian propaganda also.
Putin in power.
Clearly the threat from NATO is the problem. |
52 linked tweets. Well done! I'm afraid this it's a case of tldr for me. Anyway, trust me, I'm VERY critical of everyone, including Russia for very obvious reasons? Are you? | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:12 - Jan 12 with 4011 views | StokieBlue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:52 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
I'm happy to do so, but then I would also put the Union flag there too (because of Julian Assange) and many more flags besides.
More to the point SB, was it you who reported my post as abusive? |
Yes, I reported you.
I'll not be responding to you in future.
SB
Edit: Changed because I can't be bothered. [Post edited 12 Jan 2023 19:22]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:42 - Jan 12 with 3939 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:04 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
52 linked tweets. Well done! I'm afraid this it's a case of tldr for me. Anyway, trust me, I'm VERY critical of everyone, including Russia for very obvious reasons? Are you? |
Great response, your contributions have convinced me that you you are not that critical of Russia.
And yes, I am extremely critical of both the Russian invasions of Ukraine.
Here is some more undeserved Russian bashing propaganda to upset you.
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/featured-documentaries/2018/12/22/crimea-russi | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:48 - Jan 12 with 3931 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:12 - Jan 12 by StokieBlue |
Yes, I reported you.
I'll not be responding to you in future.
SB
Edit: Changed because I can't be bothered. [Post edited 12 Jan 2023 19:22]
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Yes it was and I'm happy to explain why.
- Well, that's a surprise!
You're a Putin apologist regardless of how many times you say you aren't. Your posts are clearly there for all to see.
- Evidence, please. Be specific. Link me to anything I have said which genuinely qualifies me as an apologist for anyone. "For all to see" is just crap. Point it out, please.
Your posting is horrible and always follows the same pattern:
Take a minority or offensive position
- Okay, they you're suggesting the majority is right. That's pretty silly.
Attempt to argue for that position
So arguing that a majority view is wrong is bad? Weren't you just accusing me of supporting "might is right"?
Get rebuffed or asked for evidence
-Okay, so now we're talking about my views on mRNA vaccines. Are my views on mRNA vaccines and my views on the Ukraine conflict related? If so, then you have a problem with me specifically. Bless you.
Don't provide evidence
- Again, we're talking about mRNA vaccines. I was just about to provide evidence, but you got that thread pulled because you cried all over it.
Obfuscate
- Obfuscation is obviously subjective. I think you are a peddler of misinformation - but obviously, that's subjective too.
Repeat the questions again a few days/weeks later
- Examples please.
As another poster has already pointed out, the narrative of your current posts is the same as what you posted previously and what was countered.
- Other posters are always right, right? Anyway , WTF are you talking about?
It's heavily skewed to removing blame from Russia when in reality only one country invaded another here.
- Yep, Russia invaded Ukraine. You think I dispute that?
Furthermore it's actually offensive because you are blaming the Ukrainians themselves for the lives that are being lost because they won't come to the table with an aggressor who is entirely to blame.
- No I'm not, I'm blaming the NATO countries who are continuing to arm Ukraine and continue the depletion of Ukrainians lives. I know Ukrainians who hold exactly the same view.
It was exactly the same MO on the vaccines thread where you looked to obfuscate when given evidence under the guise of "asking questions" when your posts could have actually been harmful is someone was taken in by them and the stance on vaccines.
- Here we go again. Double down on the same crap you've spouted before.
Even now the attempt at equivalence between the UK and Russia is fairly offensive.
- No, there is very similarity between Russia and us. But I understand it suits your case to assert that. I believe such a thing. Bless you.
You are free to post this nonsense here but you wouldn't be in Russia and making the equivalence devalues those in Russia who have been locked away for attempting to speak freely.
-Yes, thank God I am. Though that begs the question, if you support by freedom for free speech, why the hell would you report me asking questions for abuse?
-A tad contradictory, don't you think?
You can have your pop back but I'll not be replying to you going forward.
- Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahhahhahahahhhahahahahahhahahhahahahahah. Of course you will. I could bet my life on it. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:52 - Jan 12 with 3926 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:12 - Jan 12 by StokieBlue |
Yes, I reported you.
I'll not be responding to you in future.
SB
Edit: Changed because I can't be bothered. [Post edited 12 Jan 2023 19:22]
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Bless you. I've exposed your contradictions and now you want to ignore me. LOL. [Post edited 12 Jan 2023 20:22]
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:56 - Jan 12 with 3911 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:48 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
Yes it was and I'm happy to explain why.
- Well, that's a surprise!
You're a Putin apologist regardless of how many times you say you aren't. Your posts are clearly there for all to see.
- Evidence, please. Be specific. Link me to anything I have said which genuinely qualifies me as an apologist for anyone. "For all to see" is just crap. Point it out, please.
Your posting is horrible and always follows the same pattern:
Take a minority or offensive position
- Okay, they you're suggesting the majority is right. That's pretty silly.
Attempt to argue for that position
So arguing that a majority view is wrong is bad? Weren't you just accusing me of supporting "might is right"?
Get rebuffed or asked for evidence
-Okay, so now we're talking about my views on mRNA vaccines. Are my views on mRNA vaccines and my views on the Ukraine conflict related? If so, then you have a problem with me specifically. Bless you.
Don't provide evidence
- Again, we're talking about mRNA vaccines. I was just about to provide evidence, but you got that thread pulled because you cried all over it.
Obfuscate
- Obfuscation is obviously subjective. I think you are a peddler of misinformation - but obviously, that's subjective too.
Repeat the questions again a few days/weeks later
- Examples please.
As another poster has already pointed out, the narrative of your current posts is the same as what you posted previously and what was countered.
- Other posters are always right, right? Anyway , WTF are you talking about?
It's heavily skewed to removing blame from Russia when in reality only one country invaded another here.
- Yep, Russia invaded Ukraine. You think I dispute that?
Furthermore it's actually offensive because you are blaming the Ukrainians themselves for the lives that are being lost because they won't come to the table with an aggressor who is entirely to blame.
- No I'm not, I'm blaming the NATO countries who are continuing to arm Ukraine and continue the depletion of Ukrainians lives. I know Ukrainians who hold exactly the same view.
It was exactly the same MO on the vaccines thread where you looked to obfuscate when given evidence under the guise of "asking questions" when your posts could have actually been harmful is someone was taken in by them and the stance on vaccines.
- Here we go again. Double down on the same crap you've spouted before.
Even now the attempt at equivalence between the UK and Russia is fairly offensive.
- No, there is very similarity between Russia and us. But I understand it suits your case to assert that. I believe such a thing. Bless you.
You are free to post this nonsense here but you wouldn't be in Russia and making the equivalence devalues those in Russia who have been locked away for attempting to speak freely.
-Yes, thank God I am. Though that begs the question, if you support by freedom for free speech, why the hell would you report me asking questions for abuse?
-A tad contradictory, don't you think?
You can have your pop back but I'll not be replying to you going forward.
- Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahhahhahahahhhahahahahahhahahhahahahahah. Of course you will. I could bet my life on it. |
tldr: |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:57 - Jan 12 with 3899 views | ChorleyBoy |
Thanks. That doesn't upset me in the slightest.
Your contributions have convinced me that you are not critical of Ukraine at all. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:59 - Jan 12 with 3897 views | ChorleyBoy |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:56 - Jan 12 by Ewan_Oozami |
tldr: |
Well, I'm distraught. You can't even put the colon in the right place, bless you.
[Post edited 12 Jan 2023 20:02]
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 01:16 - Jan 13 with 3757 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:57 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
Thanks. That doesn't upset me in the slightest.
Your contributions have convinced me that you are not critical of Ukraine at all. |
I am sure there are many things i could be critical of Ukraine but not regarding the current invasion by Russia. So I think we can safely say that we have clarified which side we both support. I would not regard your views as abusive just misguided and not evidence based. | | | |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:34 - Jan 13 with 3547 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:57 - Jan 12 by ChorleyBoy |
Thanks. That doesn't upset me in the slightest.
Your contributions have convinced me that you are not critical of Ukraine at all. |
A simple question:
Do you think the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reasonable act?
If so, why, and what is a reasonable response of Ukraine and the rest of the world?
If not, why are you defending it? |  |
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| The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:12 - Jan 13 with 3511 views | Eireannach_gorm |
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