| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? 16:09 - Sep 20 with 5747 views | WeWereZombies |
Turkish president Recip Erdogan seems almost as unlikely a peacemaker as Putin but there may be some fragile grounds for hope from the latest meeting between the two, it almost feels like 'over to you, Zelensky'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965993 |  |
| |  |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 23:05 - Sep 20 with 1274 views | Churchman |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 22:14 - Sep 20 by WeWereZombies |
No, I do not think Putin (or any likely successor, in the short term) wants peace until they see threats to their sphere of influence vanquished. Which is not going to happen. Nor is wiping the largest nation on this planet off the map. There is no end game, no final victory, either for the West or for Russia or China. It has been messy for decades and it will continue to be messy for decades - unless there is a nuclear conflagration. So some form of compromise will be necessary in Ukraine, and it will not involve Crimea. In the meantime the rest of the World needs to minimise the damage that is done to hungry nations and to nations that have little in the way of energy reserves. Of course, in the long and not so long term everyone needs to reduce their power consumption and makes as much of it as possible sources from renewables. But as far as this winter is concerned then any damage limitation is welcome, even if the price is a doubtful set of negotiations. As Churchill intimated in his 'Sinews of Peace' lecture, 'better jaw, jaw, jaw than war, war, war'. |
So you advocate Ukraine surrenders. What is their ‘spheres of influence’? They signed a treaty to protect Ukraine's borders in return for giving up nuclear weapons. What was that worth? Poland demilitarised, Baltics sacrificed and the borders returned to spheres of influence of USSR days? Is that because you think these countries don’t matter, are simple bargaining chips or really Russia anyway?
Would you throw in Germany too? Let’s face it, after what they sacrificed (largely through their own grotesque incompetence), you could argue they deserve it. If they claim it as their sphere of influence, why not?
This all sounds ludicrous, but if one country claims a sphere of influence another doesn’t agree with you either support one side or the other. There is nothing to compromise, debate or bargain in my view. |  | | |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 23:09 - Sep 20 with 1241 views | Churchman |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 21:19 - Sep 20 by HARRY10 |
slowly then .....
Russia has large oil and gas reserves, as has the Middle East
The west has not bothered too much about niceties in gaining access to said M.E. reserves
Removing Putin, through a war he will inevitably lose would allow access via more a favourable regime |
Do you really think this is about the west wanting to take Russia’s energy? That this disaster is down to the west? It’s Putin and his mad tv station’s view so you are not alone. | | | |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 23:21 - Sep 20 with 1203 views | StokieBlue |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 21:19 - Sep 20 by HARRY10 |
slowly then .....
Russia has large oil and gas reserves, as has the Middle East
The west has not bothered too much about niceties in gaining access to said M.E. reserves
Removing Putin, through a war he will inevitably lose would allow access via more a favourable regime |
20 years ago called and asked for it's trope back.
SB |  | | |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 23:51 - Sep 20 with 1163 views | XYZ |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 21:19 - Sep 20 by HARRY10 |
slowly then .....
Russia has large oil and gas reserves, as has the Middle East
The west has not bothered too much about niceties in gaining access to said M.E. reserves
Removing Putin, through a war he will inevitably lose would allow access via more a favourable regime |
You total and utter tw*t.
Hope you have the balls to ask Lagos to introduce you to some Ukrainian refugees you can make this argument with face-to-face.
But you won't, will you? |  | | |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 00:09 - Sep 21 with 1131 views | WeWereZombies |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 23:05 - Sep 20 by Churchman |
So you advocate Ukraine surrenders. What is their ‘spheres of influence’? They signed a treaty to protect Ukraine's borders in return for giving up nuclear weapons. What was that worth? Poland demilitarised, Baltics sacrificed and the borders returned to spheres of influence of USSR days? Is that because you think these countries don’t matter, are simple bargaining chips or really Russia anyway?
Would you throw in Germany too? Let’s face it, after what they sacrificed (largely through their own grotesque incompetence), you could argue they deserve it. If they claim it as their sphere of influence, why not?
This all sounds ludicrous, but if one country claims a sphere of influence another doesn’t agree with you either support one side or the other. There is nothing to compromise, debate or bargain in my view. |
You are putting words into my mouth and making huge unwarranted leaps from what I suggest we observe to what you say I think Ukraine should do. Look at the latest report from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965998
Putin is using the same methodology as he did when Crimea was annexed, and he will carry it off should Zelensky not diffuse the situation. Zelensky needs to move quickly now to avoid surrender and, I think, that the best delaying tactic is not being drawn into opening a new front to, say, recover Donestsk because that could see the Ukrainian military initiative get bogged down. If there is one thing that we can deduce from this new century so far then surely it is that Putin, and authoritarian leaders like him, play a long game - to get into power, to hold on to power and finally to pass power on to like minded authoritarians.
Sorry, but I all I see in your reasonings is a First World War trench mentality and whatever victories arise will be short lived (as they were in Syria), the other side simply have too deep a buffer zone to be completely overthrown. Some degree of compromise and negotiation is necessary to provide the steel below the surface that brings with it an understanding of the immensity of the problem and the need for eternal vigilance and quick wittedness to ensure that in dealing with the Putins of this World we do not become just like them. | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 02:11 - Sep 21 with 1098 views | Kropotkin123 |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 00:09 - Sep 21 by WeWereZombies |
You are putting words into my mouth and making huge unwarranted leaps from what I suggest we observe to what you say I think Ukraine should do. Look at the latest report from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965998
Putin is using the same methodology as he did when Crimea was annexed, and he will carry it off should Zelensky not diffuse the situation. Zelensky needs to move quickly now to avoid surrender and, I think, that the best delaying tactic is not being drawn into opening a new front to, say, recover Donestsk because that could see the Ukrainian military initiative get bogged down. If there is one thing that we can deduce from this new century so far then surely it is that Putin, and authoritarian leaders like him, play a long game - to get into power, to hold on to power and finally to pass power on to like minded authoritarians.
Sorry, but I all I see in your reasonings is a First World War trench mentality and whatever victories arise will be short lived (as they were in Syria), the other side simply have too deep a buffer zone to be completely overthrown. Some degree of compromise and negotiation is necessary to provide the steel below the surface that brings with it an understanding of the immensity of the problem and the need for eternal vigilance and quick wittedness to ensure that in dealing with the Putins of this World we do not become just like them. |
"Putin is using the same methodology as he did when Crimea was annexed, and he will carry it off should Zelensky not diffuse the situation."
It's a totally different situation. Ukraine did not have the support of the international community who were caught off guard and reacted slowly, the Ukrainian army has since been trained and equipped by the international community, and is in the ascendancy.
Here is an assessment of what you are suggesting:
Urgent discussion on September 19 among Russia’s proxies of the need for Russia to immediately annex Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts (much of the latter of which is not under Russian control) suggests that Ukraine’s ongoing northern counter-offensive is panicking proxy forces and some Kremlin decision-makers. The legislatures of Russia’s proxies in occupied Ukraine, the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR), each called on their leadership to “immediately” hold a referendum on recognizing the DNR and LNR as Russian subjects.[1] Russian propagandist and RT Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan spoke glowingly of the call, referring to it as the “Crimean scenario.” She wrote that by recognizing occupied Ukrainian land as Russian territory, Russia could more easily threaten NATO with retaliatory strikes for Ukrainian counterattacks, “untying Russia’s hands in all respects.”[2]
This approach is incoherent. Russian forces do not control all of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. Annexing the claimed territories of the DNR and LNR would, therefore, have Russia annex oblasts that would be by Kremlin definition partially ”occupied” by legitimate Ukrainian authorities and advancing Ukrainian forces. Ukrainian strikes into Russian-annexed Crimea clearly demonstrate that Ukrainian attacks on Russia’s illegally annexed territory do not automatically trigger Russian retaliation against NATO, as Simonyan would have her readers believe. Partial annexation at this stage would also place the Kremlin in the strange position of demanding that Ukrainian forces un-occupy “Russian” territory, and the humiliating position of being unable to enforce that demand. It remains very unclear that Russian President Vladimir Putin would be willing to place himself in such a bind for the dubious benefit of making it easier to threaten NATO or Ukraine with escalation he remains highly unlikely to conduct at this stage.
This latest annexation discussion also omits other parts of Russian-occupied southern Ukraine in which the Kremlin was previously planning sham annexation referenda. A willingness to abandon the promise to bring all the occupied areas into Russia at the same time would be a significant retreat for Putin to make in the eyes of the hardline pro-war groups he appears to be courting. It remains to be seen if he is willing to compromise himself internally in such a fashion. The Kremlin’s proxies in Donbas regularly outpace Kremlin messaging, on the other hand, and may have done so again as they scramble to retain their occupied territory in the face of Ukraine’s successful and ongoing counter-offensive.
In short, incorporating these provinces into Russia would have a negative impact amongst his Russian support-base, it wouldn't change anything for Ukraine and NATO, and it would set Putin up for embarrassment and failure. |  |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 07:24 - Sep 21 with 1016 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Looks like Putin just made his latest step towards peace. |  |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 07:56 - Sep 21 with 979 views | Churchman |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 00:09 - Sep 21 by WeWereZombies |
You are putting words into my mouth and making huge unwarranted leaps from what I suggest we observe to what you say I think Ukraine should do. Look at the latest report from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965998
Putin is using the same methodology as he did when Crimea was annexed, and he will carry it off should Zelensky not diffuse the situation. Zelensky needs to move quickly now to avoid surrender and, I think, that the best delaying tactic is not being drawn into opening a new front to, say, recover Donestsk because that could see the Ukrainian military initiative get bogged down. If there is one thing that we can deduce from this new century so far then surely it is that Putin, and authoritarian leaders like him, play a long game - to get into power, to hold on to power and finally to pass power on to like minded authoritarians.
Sorry, but I all I see in your reasonings is a First World War trench mentality and whatever victories arise will be short lived (as they were in Syria), the other side simply have too deep a buffer zone to be completely overthrown. Some degree of compromise and negotiation is necessary to provide the steel below the surface that brings with it an understanding of the immensity of the problem and the need for eternal vigilance and quick wittedness to ensure that in dealing with the Putins of this World we do not become just like them. |
I’m not putting words in your mouth. It was certainly not my intention so apologies if it comes across that way. I’m just asking what is Russia’s ‘sphere of influence’ and what is the price of peace?
Russia has previously suggested that Western Europe remove US forces from their territories, France and U.K. give up nuclear weapons. That’d guarantee peace for sure. Would that be acceptable to people?
What the animal is and is doing is a repeat of those like him from history. It’s nothing new. The best we can do is contain the swine until he dies or is overthrown. Appease, give him something and what’s to stop him?
I know my approach sounds aggressive and it’s easy from the armchair, but I really believe it’s black and white with cowards like Putin.
Sorry, I don’t really see any parallel to trench mentality at all. The similarity I can see is that the allies could see no alternative. As it goes, trench warfare evolved and in many ways and thanks to the blockade, the aggressors were eventually defeated. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 8:27]
| | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:00 - Sep 21 with 973 views | giant_stow |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 07:24 - Sep 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Looks like Putin just made his latest step towards peace. |
Yes, pretty freaky - I don't see how Ukraine avoids calling his bluff and then.... |  |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:04 - Sep 21 with 964 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:00 - Sep 21 by giant_stow |
Yes, pretty freaky - I don't see how Ukraine avoids calling his bluff and then.... |
It looks like he is making his powerplay for annexing the Donbas, knowing there will be some pressure from the West on Ukraine to agree. | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:08 - Sep 21 with 942 views | giant_stow |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:04 - Sep 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It looks like he is making his powerplay for annexing the Donbas, knowing there will be some pressure from the West on Ukraine to agree. |
Obviously I'm an oik fool, but I don't see how Ukraine can agree to that or how the west can push it. It would be an open invite to make the the same move in future. Will he go nuclear? I keep reading experts say no, but he's running out of alternatives.... | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:13 - Sep 21 with 925 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:08 - Sep 21 by giant_stow |
Obviously I'm an oik fool, but I don't see how Ukraine can agree to that or how the west can push it. It would be an open invite to make the the same move in future. Will he go nuclear? I keep reading experts say no, but he's running out of alternatives.... |
Once they have the Donbas vote in the bag and portray the West as attacking Russia then all cards are on the table....hence Macron and Co will suggest a compromise in the interests of the global economy which as we all know is what really matters.
At the very least the West will be divided. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 8:15]
| |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:16 - Sep 21 with 903 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:13 - Sep 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Once they have the Donbas vote in the bag and portray the West as attacking Russia then all cards are on the table....hence Macron and Co will suggest a compromise in the interests of the global economy which as we all know is what really matters.
At the very least the West will be divided. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 8:15]
|
Sadly I think you are correct.
Whatever the outcome, I don’t see how the West can guarantee Ukraine’s post-war future security. The Sanctions will have to stay for many years to make it as difficult as possible for Russia to rearm and have another crack. | | | |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:35 - Sep 21 with 866 views | Steve_M |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 23:21 - Sep 20 by StokieBlue |
20 years ago called and asked for it's trope back.
SB |
It also ignores the mutually beneficial situation that existed until the middle of last year whereby Russia exported oil and gas and got paid for them. The only person to have damaged that is Putin and the long-term result will be that Europe will stop being dependent on anything from Russia. |  |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:37 - Sep 21 with 863 views | Steve_M |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:16 - Sep 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Sadly I think you are correct.
Whatever the outcome, I don’t see how the West can guarantee Ukraine’s post-war future security. The Sanctions will have to stay for many years to make it as difficult as possible for Russia to rearm and have another crack. |
Essentially Putin has created a situation whereby the US and Europe have a material interest in his overthrow. How sustainable is that for Russia starved of technology and increasingly dependent on China?
It doesn't rally bode well for Putin's future health and happiness. | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:39 - Sep 21 with 851 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:16 - Sep 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Sadly I think you are correct.
Whatever the outcome, I don’t see how the West can guarantee Ukraine’s post-war future security. The Sanctions will have to stay for many years to make it as difficult as possible for Russia to rearm and have another crack. |
Reports coming out of Russia of huge surges in the purchase of airline tickets to leave Russia. The more Russians that leave, the easier it becomes to disrupt the 'official' messaging coming from Putin.
If Ukraine gives up the Donbas. You'd have to assume that the west will immediately start re-arming and training Ukranian forces.
There are still a lot of plays here. Putin's 'nuclear' talk is to rebuild support for the war, but will panic many Russians. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 8:41]
|  |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:40 - Sep 21 with 839 views | Kropotkin123 |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:13 - Sep 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Once they have the Donbas vote in the bag and portray the West as attacking Russia then all cards are on the table....hence Macron and Co will suggest a compromise in the interests of the global economy which as we all know is what really matters.
At the very least the West will be divided. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 8:15]
|
France has barely contributed anything, so I think we already have a split. | |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:41 - Sep 21 with 836 views | Churchman |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:13 - Sep 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Once they have the Donbas vote in the bag and portray the West as attacking Russia then all cards are on the table....hence Macron and Co will suggest a compromise in the interests of the global economy which as we all know is what really matters.
At the very least the West will be divided. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 8:15]
|
Sadly I think you are right. I’d add that there will probably be pressure from Biden too. While US support has grown and sustains Ukraine, Biden himself still comes across as weak and malleable to me. He is desperate to end this as are most of the west. Let’s face it, anyone sane and possessing a brain cell would be. Putin cares not a jot about the death and misery he’s causing. Crazy.
I have to say, in eight months of war, to suffer less than 6,000 casualties is a remarkable achievement. Perhaps one day their generals can lecture at West Point and Sandhurst on how they did it. | | | |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 09:02 - Sep 21 with 791 views | Steve_M |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:40 - Sep 21 by Kropotkin123 |
France has barely contributed anything, so I think we already have a split. |
That really isn't true. The mobile artillery for one has been nearly as useful as HIMARS. | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 09:05 - Sep 21 with 785 views | WeWereZombies |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 07:56 - Sep 21 by Churchman |
I’m not putting words in your mouth. It was certainly not my intention so apologies if it comes across that way. I’m just asking what is Russia’s ‘sphere of influence’ and what is the price of peace?
Russia has previously suggested that Western Europe remove US forces from their territories, France and U.K. give up nuclear weapons. That’d guarantee peace for sure. Would that be acceptable to people?
What the animal is and is doing is a repeat of those like him from history. It’s nothing new. The best we can do is contain the swine until he dies or is overthrown. Appease, give him something and what’s to stop him?
I know my approach sounds aggressive and it’s easy from the armchair, but I really believe it’s black and white with cowards like Putin.
Sorry, I don’t really see any parallel to trench mentality at all. The similarity I can see is that the allies could see no alternative. As it goes, trench warfare evolved and in many ways and thanks to the blockade, the aggressors were eventually defeated. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 8:27]
|
Thanks for the calm reply, we were getting a bit too heated about it all, weren't we ?
I thought on about developments (but it didn't stop me sleeping) and stand by what I have posted but I do think that a small chink of light for a diplomatic easement is fading. Our Foreign Office seem to have echoed that this morning:
'More now from UK Foreign Office Minister Gillian Keegan, who says discussions will continue to seek a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine war.
Speaking to BBC Breakfast, she was asked whether such a solution could still happen and if channels are open between Moscow and London.
"There will always be discussions that will be going on either via Ukraine or other countries as well, or directly, so we will continue to urge calm and we will continue to have those discussions where possible," she said.'
This is from the BBC's live feed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-62970683 | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 09:31 - Sep 21 with 733 views | WeWereZombies |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 02:11 - Sep 21 by Kropotkin123 |
"Putin is using the same methodology as he did when Crimea was annexed, and he will carry it off should Zelensky not diffuse the situation."
It's a totally different situation. Ukraine did not have the support of the international community who were caught off guard and reacted slowly, the Ukrainian army has since been trained and equipped by the international community, and is in the ascendancy.
Here is an assessment of what you are suggesting:
Urgent discussion on September 19 among Russia’s proxies of the need for Russia to immediately annex Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts (much of the latter of which is not under Russian control) suggests that Ukraine’s ongoing northern counter-offensive is panicking proxy forces and some Kremlin decision-makers. The legislatures of Russia’s proxies in occupied Ukraine, the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR), each called on their leadership to “immediately” hold a referendum on recognizing the DNR and LNR as Russian subjects.[1] Russian propagandist and RT Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan spoke glowingly of the call, referring to it as the “Crimean scenario.” She wrote that by recognizing occupied Ukrainian land as Russian territory, Russia could more easily threaten NATO with retaliatory strikes for Ukrainian counterattacks, “untying Russia’s hands in all respects.”[2]
This approach is incoherent. Russian forces do not control all of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. Annexing the claimed territories of the DNR and LNR would, therefore, have Russia annex oblasts that would be by Kremlin definition partially ”occupied” by legitimate Ukrainian authorities and advancing Ukrainian forces. Ukrainian strikes into Russian-annexed Crimea clearly demonstrate that Ukrainian attacks on Russia’s illegally annexed territory do not automatically trigger Russian retaliation against NATO, as Simonyan would have her readers believe. Partial annexation at this stage would also place the Kremlin in the strange position of demanding that Ukrainian forces un-occupy “Russian” territory, and the humiliating position of being unable to enforce that demand. It remains very unclear that Russian President Vladimir Putin would be willing to place himself in such a bind for the dubious benefit of making it easier to threaten NATO or Ukraine with escalation he remains highly unlikely to conduct at this stage.
This latest annexation discussion also omits other parts of Russian-occupied southern Ukraine in which the Kremlin was previously planning sham annexation referenda. A willingness to abandon the promise to bring all the occupied areas into Russia at the same time would be a significant retreat for Putin to make in the eyes of the hardline pro-war groups he appears to be courting. It remains to be seen if he is willing to compromise himself internally in such a fashion. The Kremlin’s proxies in Donbas regularly outpace Kremlin messaging, on the other hand, and may have done so again as they scramble to retain their occupied territory in the face of Ukraine’s successful and ongoing counter-offensive.
In short, incorporating these provinces into Russia would have a negative impact amongst his Russian support-base, it wouldn't change anything for Ukraine and NATO, and it would set Putin up for embarrassment and failure. |
I am not so sure that these proposed referendums set Putin up for 'embarrassment and failure', that depends on military outcomes in the coming weeks and the results (as far as they can be trusted) of the referendums should they happen. We already know that the unofficial ruling parties in Donbas unremittingly identify as Russian and we may find out the strength of feeling (one way or another) of the rest of the population under Russian control.
A further piece of corollary damage that will come out of the referendums happen is more division in the Baltic republics. I watched a Euronews (I know, it has some dodgy connections to Orban) documentary about Estonia earlier in the year on the issues around ethnic Russians still living there. It seems efforts and progress are being made towards cultural recognition and assimilation (which may or may not thrive if Kaja Kallas persists with passport qualifications) and it would be tragic if Putin could make grounds for a similar operation on the borders of Estonia to the one he is orchestrating in Ukraine. | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 09:34 - Sep 21 with 714 views | WeWereZombies |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 08:37 - Sep 21 by Steve_M |
Essentially Putin has created a situation whereby the US and Europe have a material interest in his overthrow. How sustainable is that for Russia starved of technology and increasingly dependent on China?
It doesn't rally bode well for Putin's future health and happiness. |
I don't think Putin does 'happy'... | |
| |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 11:41 - Sep 21 with 659 views | Churchman |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 09:34 - Sep 21 by WeWereZombies |
I don't think Putin does 'happy'... |
No, he’s not the sort to nudge and say ‘oi, Vlad, did you hear the one about….’
Or to discuss the merits of Freddy Ladapo come to that. He’s always struck me as the last person you’d want to be seated next to at dinner. Even more so in 2022! | | | |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas on 12:20 - Sep 21 with 630 views | Darth_Koont |
| An end to the war in Ukraine possible before Christmas ? on 20:48 - Sep 20 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Do you really think Russia will stop killing people in the Donbas if they are handed over?
That seems far more naive that I thought you would be. |
I think it’s naive to think that this war can’t get a lot worse for the civilians at the heart of it. And that these wars can and do chunter on for years.
I’m struggling to see the satisfactory resolution for them. And aren’t we basically where the invasion started re: fighting to control the occupied territories, Crimea still annexed and Ukraine with one foot in and one foot out of the NATO defensive shield which puts a target on them without any real shelter? |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
