| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:39 - Sep 28 with 1187 views | Leaky |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:36 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
It's on literally every major news website if you google 'German fans'. |
Just did sounds horrendous |  | |  |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:55 - Sep 28 with 1159 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:14 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
"Fine, it's the first article I came to, there are plenty of others.
Here's one that puts alcohol as way more harmful than crack cocaine and heroin;
http://www.drugs.ie/news/article/alcohol_more_dangerous_than_cocaine_or_heroin
A new study found alcohol was the most dangerous of 20 legal and illegal drugs when the two criteria of harm to the user and harm to others were combined.
Alcohol is more dangerous than crack cocaine and heroin when damage to users themselves and to wider society are combined, a study has found."
Is this not you doing that? If not, what are you linking to this stuff for?
[Post edited 28 Sep 2022 14:19]
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"A new study found alcohol was the most dangerous of 20 legal and illegal drugs".
Theres your answer. The authors put crack and heroin in the headline because it's more emotive, but guess what, I didn't write the headline.
If that's the fact then fair enough - that surprised even me - but if you read the rest of the thread I've consistently just been saying cocaine (which is obviously covered in the "20 legal and illegal drugs"). [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 14:58]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:02 - Sep 28 with 1139 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:55 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"A new study found alcohol was the most dangerous of 20 legal and illegal drugs".
Theres your answer. The authors put crack and heroin in the headline because it's more emotive, but guess what, I didn't write the headline.
If that's the fact then fair enough - that surprised even me - but if you read the rest of the thread I've consistently just been saying cocaine (which is obviously covered in the "20 legal and illegal drugs"). [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 14:58]
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But that ISN'T a fact, is it? It's chock full of conditions.
It's pretty stupid to state something like that either way. This is a good example of conclusions/headlines, even statements like the one you quoted, being erroneously extrapolated from a study which will have considered all of this stuff in detail and made allowances in detail.
Anyway, I think I've come to the conclusion that arguing this is a waste of my time. Sunk cost. The answer is probably inbetween. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:12 - Sep 28 with 1131 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:02 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
But that ISN'T a fact, is it? It's chock full of conditions.
It's pretty stupid to state something like that either way. This is a good example of conclusions/headlines, even statements like the one you quoted, being erroneously extrapolated from a study which will have considered all of this stuff in detail and made allowances in detail.
Anyway, I think I've come to the conclusion that arguing this is a waste of my time. Sunk cost. The answer is probably inbetween. |
I'm not sure how you can state it isn't a fact. What conditions?!
Definitely a waste of my time when people ask for links, I spend way more time than I said I would finding them, and then they still won't accept them.
Ho, hum. Whatever I post people will still believe what they want to believe, so I won't bother. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:18 - Sep 28 with 1125 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:12 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not sure how you can state it isn't a fact. What conditions?!
Definitely a waste of my time when people ask for links, I spend way more time than I said I would finding them, and then they still won't accept them.
Ho, hum. Whatever I post people will still believe what they want to believe, so I won't bother. |
Of course I can state it isn't a fact. A statement as broad and wide ranging as "alcohol is more harmful than top 20 drugs combined" clearly has a lot of conditions (prevalence, how you measure harm, location, dosages...essentially, subjectivity). If I wrote something like that as a conclusion to a thesis I would be torn to shreds by my peers and rightly so.
I don't 'want' to believe anything. I want to have a reasonable debate about govt drug policy and help addicts. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:27 - Sep 28 with 1105 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:18 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
Of course I can state it isn't a fact. A statement as broad and wide ranging as "alcohol is more harmful than top 20 drugs combined" clearly has a lot of conditions (prevalence, how you measure harm, location, dosages...essentially, subjectivity). If I wrote something like that as a conclusion to a thesis I would be torn to shreds by my peers and rightly so.
I don't 'want' to believe anything. I want to have a reasonable debate about govt drug policy and help addicts. |
Not if your thesis went into the details and proved the conclusion.
Also, this is an article they want people to read, not a thesis. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:32 - Sep 28 with 1099 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:27 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Not if your thesis went into the details and proved the conclusion.
Also, this is an article they want people to read, not a thesis. |
Yeah, but it doesn't and hasn't, because the link doesn't even work, so neither of us can even read the damn thing.
I'm not in the habit of believing articles as fact. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:40 - Sep 28 with 1085 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:32 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
Yeah, but it doesn't and hasn't, because the link doesn't even work, so neither of us can even read the damn thing.
I'm not in the habit of believing articles as fact. |
"I'm not in the habit of believing articles as fact."
Wowsers. I'll remember this for if you link to anything in future!
I haven't got the time to write you a thesis I'm afraid, so I'll leave it there. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:42 - Sep 28 with 1084 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:40 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"I'm not in the habit of believing articles as fact."
Wowsers. I'll remember this for if you link to anything in future!
I haven't got the time to write you a thesis I'm afraid, so I'll leave it there. |
If I post a link it's for discussion, typically. I don't post links to articles which contain broken links to studies and then moan that people aren't accepting the conclusions as facts.
What's mad about this is that we're probably very aligned on our position on drugs. I'm off for a pint. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:37 - Sep 28 with 1046 views | bluelagos |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:26 - Sep 28 by Leaky |
Good to see I hit a nerve with a few here. |
In your imagination, maybe. In the real world, you're just making yourself look like a dick. That of course is very much your right, so please carry on. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 16:49]
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 17:05 - Sep 28 with 1020 views | jeera |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:37 - Sep 28 by bluelagos |
In your imagination, maybe. In the real world, you're just making yourself look like a dick. That of course is very much your right, so please carry on. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 16:49]
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I've never understood the expression, or at least in the way it's often delivered with smugness.
It indicates the speaker has deliberately tried to give someone the hump which is pointless. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 20:41 - Sep 28 with 976 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:42 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
If I post a link it's for discussion, typically. I don't post links to articles which contain broken links to studies and then moan that people aren't accepting the conclusions as facts.
What's mad about this is that we're probably very aligned on our position on drugs. I'm off for a pint. |
You and Joe both used the broken link as a way to deflect and rubbish my argument. The pertinent quotes were visible, the link went through to the full report and I guarantee neither of you would've read the full thing.
Just like even though you say you want a thesis, if I produced one proving alcohol and/or tobacco are worse for you than cocaine, you wouldn't read it.
I've produced several links yet you focus on the one that had a broken link within it. I created a lovely little straw man for you there didn't I?!
I don't think I'm going to bother with debates on here anymore. Literally a waste of time. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:09 - Sep 28 with 940 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 20:41 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You and Joe both used the broken link as a way to deflect and rubbish my argument. The pertinent quotes were visible, the link went through to the full report and I guarantee neither of you would've read the full thing.
Just like even though you say you want a thesis, if I produced one proving alcohol and/or tobacco are worse for you than cocaine, you wouldn't read it.
I've produced several links yet you focus on the one that had a broken link within it. I created a lovely little straw man for you there didn't I?!
I don't think I'm going to bother with debates on here anymore. Literally a waste of time. |
This isn’t personal and I don’t have an agenda. You seem to think I do, but I don’t. I definitely admit to having a predetermined opinion about the harmfulness and addictiveness of crack and heroin, but I’d happily change that if I saw compelling evidence that countered it.
I’ll also happily read a report, or scientific study, and debate it. It’s quite annoying that you say I wouldn’t.
There’s a reason I focused on that link, because the thing I disagree with/challenged you on in this thread is that point (any supposed argument that crack or heroin is less harmful than alcohol). | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:19 - Sep 28 with 928 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:09 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
This isn’t personal and I don’t have an agenda. You seem to think I do, but I don’t. I definitely admit to having a predetermined opinion about the harmfulness and addictiveness of crack and heroin, but I’d happily change that if I saw compelling evidence that countered it.
I’ll also happily read a report, or scientific study, and debate it. It’s quite annoying that you say I wouldn’t.
There’s a reason I focused on that link, because the thing I disagree with/challenged you on in this thread is that point (any supposed argument that crack or heroin is less harmful than alcohol). |
Evening Eddy.
I can’t be arsed to read the thread but which of you are saying that crack and heroin are as much of a problem as alcohol - or have I misread this page.
Alcohol is a demon but isn’t on the same level as the other two. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:23 - Sep 28 with 915 views | bungaytractor |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:19 - Sep 28 by Lord_Lucan |
Evening Eddy.
I can’t be arsed to read the thread but which of you are saying that crack and heroin are as much of a problem as alcohol - or have I misread this page.
Alcohol is a demon but isn’t on the same level as the other two. |
Why dont you read the pages them idiot |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:31 - Sep 28 with 900 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:23 - Sep 28 by bungaytractor |
Why dont you read the pages them idiot |
Them idiot?
I can’t be arsed and I don’t have time.
And I also can’t be bothered [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 22:32]
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:33 - Sep 28 with 893 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:19 - Sep 28 by Lord_Lucan |
Evening Eddy.
I can’t be arsed to read the thread but which of you are saying that crack and heroin are as much of a problem as alcohol - or have I misread this page.
Alcohol is a demon but isn’t on the same level as the other two. |
Dollers (originally) seemed to argue alcohol was as bad as crack and heroin and linked to an article suggesting that. The article and study referenced obviously took into account the prevalence of alcohol use but it still seemed a bit far fetched as a conclusion.
I obviously agree with you. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:35 - Sep 28 with 888 views | bungaytractor |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:31 - Sep 28 by Lord_Lucan |
Them idiot?
I can’t be arsed and I don’t have time.
And I also can’t be bothered [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 22:32]
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Time to reply that didnt like you mug
Embarassing tbh | | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 23:28 - Sep 28 with 852 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:33 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
Dollers (originally) seemed to argue alcohol was as bad as crack and heroin and linked to an article suggesting that. The article and study referenced obviously took into account the prevalence of alcohol use but it still seemed a bit far fetched as a conclusion.
I obviously agree with you. |
We are both borderline in many things aren't we J.
Anyone though who thinks alcohol and crack cocaine or heroin are similar have obviously never done crack or heroin.
..... Although there appears to be a lot of it about around the Bungay area at this moment in time
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 01:16 - Sep 29 with 803 views | XYZ |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:15 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
I didn't mean it to cheapen it - it seemed a contradiction in terms, is all. |
You knew what his (assumed pronoun) point was.
Ultimately we're all dicks so I wouldn't worry! | | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:03 - Sep 29 with 731 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 22:09 - Sep 28 by unbelievablue |
This isn’t personal and I don’t have an agenda. You seem to think I do, but I don’t. I definitely admit to having a predetermined opinion about the harmfulness and addictiveness of crack and heroin, but I’d happily change that if I saw compelling evidence that countered it.
I’ll also happily read a report, or scientific study, and debate it. It’s quite annoying that you say I wouldn’t.
There’s a reason I focused on that link, because the thing I disagree with/challenged you on in this thread is that point (any supposed argument that crack or heroin is less harmful than alcohol). |
I'm with you. Steer clear of crack and heroin. I never meant to advocate those! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:56 - Sep 29 with 692 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 23:28 - Sep 28 by Lord_Lucan |
We are both borderline in many things aren't we J.
Anyone though who thinks alcohol and crack cocaine or heroin are similar have obviously never done crack or heroin.
..... Although there appears to be a lot of it about around the Bungay area at this moment in time
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No-one argued alcohol was as bad as crack and heroin. I argued alcohol is worse than cocaine. Just cocaine, not crack.
I linked a study that found alcohol was worse than 20 other legal and illegal drugs put together, and the article ran with the headline "Alcohol worse than crack and heroin." I didn't write the headline, and I was trying to reference my original argument that alcohol is worse than cocaine.
Hope that's cleared that up for you because unbelieva wasn't giving you the full picture. He either deliberately or accidentally got wrong what I was saying due to that one article. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 18:42 - Sep 29 with 619 views | Leaky |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:56 - Sep 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No-one argued alcohol was as bad as crack and heroin. I argued alcohol is worse than cocaine. Just cocaine, not crack.
I linked a study that found alcohol was worse than 20 other legal and illegal drugs put together, and the article ran with the headline "Alcohol worse than crack and heroin." I didn't write the headline, and I was trying to reference my original argument that alcohol is worse than cocaine.
Hope that's cleared that up for you because unbelieva wasn't giving you the full picture. He either deliberately or accidentally got wrong what I was saying due to that one article. |
There was a 9-year girl shot dead in her own house in Liverpool a few weeks ago. Until the culprit is caught, we can't pre-judge his motives for this heinous crime, I would suggest it is more than likely not alcohol related. Drug related ?. | | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 19:59 - Sep 29 with 594 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 18:42 - Sep 29 by Leaky |
There was a 9-year girl shot dead in her own house in Liverpool a few weeks ago. Until the culprit is caught, we can't pre-judge his motives for this heinous crime, I would suggest it is more than likely not alcohol related. Drug related ?. |
"We can't pre-judge his motives... but here's my pre-judgement!"
As I've said earlier in the thread, I was only commenting on the effects on the individual, not the crime associated with it. And cocaine, not all drugs. I've also talked about legalisation, thus cutting out the drug barons and associated crime altogether.
Try engaging your brain, and not building straw men. Not everything is black and white. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 20:44 - Sep 29 with 550 views | Blueastheycome |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:56 - Sep 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No-one argued alcohol was as bad as crack and heroin. I argued alcohol is worse than cocaine. Just cocaine, not crack.
I linked a study that found alcohol was worse than 20 other legal and illegal drugs put together, and the article ran with the headline "Alcohol worse than crack and heroin." I didn't write the headline, and I was trying to reference my original argument that alcohol is worse than cocaine.
Hope that's cleared that up for you because unbelieva wasn't giving you the full picture. He either deliberately or accidentally got wrong what I was saying due to that one article. |
You can’t just post a few articles/studies and then sweepingly shout LOOK! FACT!
That is GCSE level/style critical thinking |  | | |
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