| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:44 - Sep 26 with 1676 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:36 - Sep 26 by eastangliaisblue |
Any proof to back that up? |
https://drugabuse.com/addiction/health-issues/cancer/
"According to the American Cancer Society, approximately 30% of all cancer deaths are attributed to tobacco use. Smoking causes 87% of lung cancer deaths in men and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women."
Cocaine is way down the list, and is primarily there due to what dealers cut it with, not the cocaine itself: "At times, the product used to “cut” the cocaine can be carcinogenic. This was the case when phenacetin was found in some cocaine sold in the United Kingdom. Exposure to this substance is shown to increase the risk of cancer and kidney issues."
But as I say, it's way down the list of cancer causers. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:47 - Sep 26 with 1656 views | bungaytractor |
That one only talks about PHYSICAL affects but nothing about mental.... weed can make people insane do you know that??
..... fags cant do that ,ok there more physically dangerous but nothing about mental
My mate locked himself in his car after smoking weed to much and had to ask people to ring the aa to get him out so it can be very dangerous |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:47 - Sep 26 with 1650 views | BiGDonnie |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:44 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
https://drugabuse.com/addiction/health-issues/cancer/
"According to the American Cancer Society, approximately 30% of all cancer deaths are attributed to tobacco use. Smoking causes 87% of lung cancer deaths in men and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women."
Cocaine is way down the list, and is primarily there due to what dealers cut it with, not the cocaine itself: "At times, the product used to “cut” the cocaine can be carcinogenic. This was the case when phenacetin was found in some cocaine sold in the United Kingdom. Exposure to this substance is shown to increase the risk of cancer and kidney issues."
But as I say, it's way down the list of cancer causers. |
What about people that maybe, once or twice a month get pissed up, smoke some cigarettes and have a cheeky line or two?
Asking for a friend... [Post edited 26 Sep 2022 15:47]
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:48 - Sep 26 with 1643 views | eastangliaisblue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:44 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
https://drugabuse.com/addiction/health-issues/cancer/
"According to the American Cancer Society, approximately 30% of all cancer deaths are attributed to tobacco use. Smoking causes 87% of lung cancer deaths in men and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women."
Cocaine is way down the list, and is primarily there due to what dealers cut it with, not the cocaine itself: "At times, the product used to “cut” the cocaine can be carcinogenic. This was the case when phenacetin was found in some cocaine sold in the United Kingdom. Exposure to this substance is shown to increase the risk of cancer and kidney issues."
But as I say, it's way down the list of cancer causers. |
Once again though, that's because smoking is more prevalant than cocaine use. You haven't proved anything. |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:59 - Sep 26 with 1608 views | bluelagos |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:47 - Sep 26 by bungaytractor |
That one only talks about PHYSICAL affects but nothing about mental.... weed can make people insane do you know that??
..... fags cant do that ,ok there more physically dangerous but nothing about mental
My mate locked himself in his car after smoking weed to much and had to ask people to ring the aa to get him out so it can be very dangerous |
You think that's bad, my mate smoked some weed that was clearly laced with something, cos he ended up in his underpants, in the middle of a public road, simulating sex with a blow up gorilla.
You don't get that with a pint of stella. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:07 - Sep 26 with 1572 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:47 - Sep 26 by bungaytractor |
That one only talks about PHYSICAL affects but nothing about mental.... weed can make people insane do you know that??
..... fags cant do that ,ok there more physically dangerous but nothing about mental
My mate locked himself in his car after smoking weed to much and had to ask people to ring the aa to get him out so it can be very dangerous |
I'm not sure what you mean by "weed can make people insane". It can make you paranoid - if you do too much of it. As you say yourself, your mate did too much.
Anything can make you ill if you have too much of it, even water! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:10 - Sep 26 with 1568 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:48 - Sep 26 by eastangliaisblue |
Once again though, that's because smoking is more prevalant than cocaine use. You haven't proved anything. |
I give up. It doesn't matter what studies I link to you're just going to dismiss them. Not much more I can do here, so how about we flip it and you provide some evidence that cocaine is worse for you than cigarette smoking? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:18 - Sep 26 with 1549 views | bluelagos |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:10 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I give up. It doesn't matter what studies I link to you're just going to dismiss them. Not much more I can do here, so how about we flip it and you provide some evidence that cocaine is worse for you than cigarette smoking? |
Check out the table in this report. Clearly Cocaine is more harmful than tobacco. (If it's correct)
https://theconversation.com/history-not-harm-dictates-why-some-drugs-are-legal-a | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:26 - Sep 26 with 1527 views | itfcjoe |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:10 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I give up. It doesn't matter what studies I link to you're just going to dismiss them. Not much more I can do here, so how about we flip it and you provide some evidence that cocaine is worse for you than cigarette smoking? |
Just having a look through some journals and only one I can find that directly compares cocaine users with non smokers, and smokers with non cocaine users is in pregnant women and the risk to babies is higher in cocaine users, but most children suffering from those issues will be from smokers because there are simply more of them.
So there is an example where they are truly compared and cocaine use is worse than smoking
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-3016.1996.tb00050.x
When compared with women with no recorded prenatal exposure to drugs or cigarettes, cocaine users had higher risks than smokers for the following adverse outcomes: low birthweight, small-for-ges-tational age (SGA), abruptio placentae, placenta prae-via and perinatal death . Smokers who did not use any drugs experienced most of the same adverse perinatal outcomes as cocaine users, but the magnitude of risk was greater in cocaine users than in smokers for all outcomes. However, given the greater numbers of cigarette smokers than cocaine users in the population the numbers of infants in the population suffering these adverse outcomes is likely to be greater among offspring of cigarette smokers. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:28 - Sep 26 with 1513 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
It's an Australian article quoting "drug harms" in the UK. Bit odd. And I really don't know what validity there is in this article given it's written by an online journalist not a doctor. Even so, the table shows cocaine almost exactly the same as tobacco.
If my links are dismissed then I'm not sure why this Aussie journal quoting drugs in the UK should be held as proof. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:31 - Sep 26 with 1506 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:26 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe |
Just having a look through some journals and only one I can find that directly compares cocaine users with non smokers, and smokers with non cocaine users is in pregnant women and the risk to babies is higher in cocaine users, but most children suffering from those issues will be from smokers because there are simply more of them.
So there is an example where they are truly compared and cocaine use is worse than smoking
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-3016.1996.tb00050.x
When compared with women with no recorded prenatal exposure to drugs or cigarettes, cocaine users had higher risks than smokers for the following adverse outcomes: low birthweight, small-for-ges-tational age (SGA), abruptio placentae, placenta prae-via and perinatal death . Smokers who did not use any drugs experienced most of the same adverse perinatal outcomes as cocaine users, but the magnitude of risk was greater in cocaine users than in smokers for all outcomes. However, given the greater numbers of cigarette smokers than cocaine users in the population the numbers of infants in the population suffering these adverse outcomes is likely to be greater among offspring of cigarette smokers. |
I don't know anything about prenatal exposure to drugs or cigarettes, nor have I claimed to know, so can't really comment. I was talking about general drug and cigarette use, not this very niche area. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 17:16 - Sep 26 with 1435 views | itfcjoe |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:31 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't know anything about prenatal exposure to drugs or cigarettes, nor have I claimed to know, so can't really comment. I was talking about general drug and cigarette use, not this very niche area. |
Ok, I’ve found a journal which shows that using exclusively cocaine in this specific area is worse than exclusively smoking - can you find something that compares exclusively smoking with exclusively using cocaine for health outcomes? | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 17:25 - Sep 26 with 1401 views | monytowbray |
I smoke weed all day most days. Running a fairly successful freelance business, my house is clean, my finances are fine, I can pick it up and put it down when I feel like it.
Booze on the other hand ruined my life for a period and I easily could have died in a few scenarios from stuff I’ve done p1ssed.
When was the last time we were having medical debate about doctors prescribing 8 cans of Stella for your mental health? The crap some people spout on here because they believe what authority tell them. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 17:29 - Sep 26 with 1404 views | leitrimblue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:47 - Sep 26 by bungaytractor |
That one only talks about PHYSICAL affects but nothing about mental.... weed can make people insane do you know that??
..... fags cant do that ,ok there more physically dangerous but nothing about mental
My mate locked himself in his car after smoking weed to much and had to ask people to ring the aa to get him out so it can be very dangerous |
Guessing your 'mate' is far from the brightest? |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 17:46 - Sep 26 with 1385 views | bungaytractor |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 17:29 - Sep 26 by leitrimblue |
Guessing your 'mate' is far from the brightest? |
Deffinitely not lol
Only smoked it once but felt sick tired and radio was playing r.e.o speedwagon again & again which i didnt like | | | |
| [Redacted] on 18:34 - Sep 26 with 1320 views | victorywilhappen |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 16:28 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's an Australian article quoting "drug harms" in the UK. Bit odd. And I really don't know what validity there is in this article given it's written by an online journalist not a doctor. Even so, the table shows cocaine almost exactly the same as tobacco.
If my links are dismissed then I'm not sure why this Aussie journal quoting drugs in the UK should be held as proof. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 19:19 - Sep 26 with 1270 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 17:16 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe |
Ok, I’ve found a journal which shows that using exclusively cocaine in this specific area is worse than exclusively smoking - can you find something that compares exclusively smoking with exclusively using cocaine for health outcomes? |
I've posted plenty of links and people like yourself have just dismissed them. Can't be bothered to spend more time on this frankly. I know the facts and whatever I post it won't be enough for you "Drugs are bad mkay" types so I won't waste any more of my time.
Keep believing the government on which drugs are bad and which are fine, that always works out well. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 20:51 - Sep 26 with 1178 views | itfcjoe |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 19:19 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've posted plenty of links and people like yourself have just dismissed them. Can't be bothered to spend more time on this frankly. I know the facts and whatever I post it won't be enough for you "Drugs are bad mkay" types so I won't waste any more of my time.
Keep believing the government on which drugs are bad and which are fine, that always works out well. |
It’s like debating with a child, just make up what I’m saying then argue against a view I don’t hold then cry off when presented with actual relevant evidence | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 06:13 - Sep 27 with 1063 views | noggin |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:47 - Sep 26 by bungaytractor |
That one only talks about PHYSICAL affects but nothing about mental.... weed can make people insane do you know that??
..... fags cant do that ,ok there more physically dangerous but nothing about mental
My mate locked himself in his car after smoking weed to much and had to ask people to ring the aa to get him out so it can be very dangerous |
This is brilliant  |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 07:23 - Sep 27 with 1037 views | Leaky |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:18 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Hmm, I think 'Lifeworks' are somewhat biased as they offer programmes to get people off cocaine. Their headline there is also a bit OTT: "Why cocaine use leads to violence," because it frequently doesn't.
I appreciate it leads to a sensation of invincibility, increased confidence and reduced inhibitions, but these don't inherently lead to violence. I've been at lots of advertising parties where those 3 things have been evident due to coke, but not the violence. In fact I'm not aware of any situation I've been in where coke has led to violence. Maybe it's the circles we keep Joe!
I'd guess it's people who already have a proclivity to violence that are becoming violent on cocaine due to the above sensations (and also mixing it with lots of alcohol, which is a depressant of course). Young lads at the footy who want to get up to mischief using the coke to give them that confidence/sense of invincibility, rather than the coke itself causing otherwise innocent lambs to be violent thugs. |
You may think that cocaine doesn't contribute to making one violent. However, by buying it you're contributing to the violence associated with County Line drug gangs & drug cartels. Your part of the problem. |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 07:37 - Sep 27 with 1035 views | bluelagos |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 07:23 - Sep 27 by Leaky |
You may think that cocaine doesn't contribute to making one violent. However, by buying it you're contributing to the violence associated with County Line drug gangs & drug cartels. Your part of the problem. |
What is undeniable, is that the cocaine use in the UK is in the hands of criminals and there is thus lots of unsavoury aspects to that criminal activity.
So there are a couple of solutions. One is to try and stop the demand for drugs. Good luck with that, but that policy/strategy is clearly failing.
The other is to consider legalising drugs, especialy those whose harmful effects are not a million miles away from alcohol. Then you reduce all the criminal activity you describe,
Our current approach isn't working, just as prohibition didn't work, instead than creating a market that criminals exploit. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 10:10 - Sep 27 with 997 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 20:51 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe |
It’s like debating with a child, just make up what I’m saying then argue against a view I don’t hold then cry off when presented with actual relevant evidence |
I'M like debating with a child?! You're the one who brought in pregnant women and said "well cocaine's worse for pregnant women, so you're wrong!" I never said anything about pregnant women. You posted it because you were desperately scrabbling around to find a study where cocaine is worse and that's all you could come up with. There are probably lots of things that are worse for pregnant women, but it's not something we were debating!
I've put up links to where alcohol and tobacco are both worse than cannabis and cocaine but people just say "well it's more prevalent, so that's why" (even if you'd have thought these reports factored that in).
The only way cocaine will be as prevalent as tobacco is if it's legalised and sold in somewhere like Boots - and would thus be regulated and not cut with carcinogens... so still wouldn't be causing cancer at the rate tobacco does!
EDIT: Here's another report, from just 4 years ago.
"Worldwide, alcohol and tobacco cause much more death, disability and addiction than illegal drugs, according to a new review."
https://www.livescience.com/62540-drug-threats-health.html
Again, though, I'll be told "well it's because alcohol and tobacco are more prevalent" so without all things being equal this debate can't really go anywhere...
Actually, I just had a thought. Where we can negate the "prevalence" argument is Portugal. Obviously a small sample compared to the world, but "the number of deaths caused by illicit drug use... have decreased significantly since 2001" (when illegal drugs were decriminalised).
So despite drugs being legal, drug deaths have DECREASED.
https://transformdrugs.org/blog/the-success-of-portugals-decriminalisation-polic
Here's the evidence you wanted, Joe.
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 11:33]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 10:14 - Sep 27 with 987 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 07:23 - Sep 27 by Leaky |
You may think that cocaine doesn't contribute to making one violent. However, by buying it you're contributing to the violence associated with County Line drug gangs & drug cartels. Your part of the problem. |
Jesus wept. I was talking about the physical/psychological effects on the body. It wouldn't be contributing to the violence associated with County Line drug gangs & drug cartels if it were legalised and controlled, which is what I and others have advocated.
And I'm not a user so no, I'm not part of the problem. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:36 - Sep 27 with 946 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 10:10 - Sep 27 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'M like debating with a child?! You're the one who brought in pregnant women and said "well cocaine's worse for pregnant women, so you're wrong!" I never said anything about pregnant women. You posted it because you were desperately scrabbling around to find a study where cocaine is worse and that's all you could come up with. There are probably lots of things that are worse for pregnant women, but it's not something we were debating!
I've put up links to where alcohol and tobacco are both worse than cannabis and cocaine but people just say "well it's more prevalent, so that's why" (even if you'd have thought these reports factored that in).
The only way cocaine will be as prevalent as tobacco is if it's legalised and sold in somewhere like Boots - and would thus be regulated and not cut with carcinogens... so still wouldn't be causing cancer at the rate tobacco does!
EDIT: Here's another report, from just 4 years ago.
"Worldwide, alcohol and tobacco cause much more death, disability and addiction than illegal drugs, according to a new review."
https://www.livescience.com/62540-drug-threats-health.html
Again, though, I'll be told "well it's because alcohol and tobacco are more prevalent" so without all things being equal this debate can't really go anywhere...
Actually, I just had a thought. Where we can negate the "prevalence" argument is Portugal. Obviously a small sample compared to the world, but "the number of deaths caused by illicit drug use... have decreased significantly since 2001" (when illegal drugs were decriminalised).
So despite drugs being legal, drug deaths have DECREASED.
https://transformdrugs.org/blog/the-success-of-portugals-decriminalisation-polic
Here's the evidence you wanted, Joe.
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 11:33]
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You clearly have an agenda which is a shame because I think you are on to something re: policy.
The biggest issue is you move the goalposts so often it's impossible to have a reasoned debate. You posted links and argued that alcohol was more harmful than crack cocaine and heroin, now it's 'cocaine and cannabis'. When I and others pointed out that the harm level is because of prevalence, you ignore, or (as above) seem to get confused about it.
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 11:37]
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:38 - Sep 27 with 942 views | unbelievablue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 10:10 - Sep 27 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'M like debating with a child?! You're the one who brought in pregnant women and said "well cocaine's worse for pregnant women, so you're wrong!" I never said anything about pregnant women. You posted it because you were desperately scrabbling around to find a study where cocaine is worse and that's all you could come up with. There are probably lots of things that are worse for pregnant women, but it's not something we were debating!
I've put up links to where alcohol and tobacco are both worse than cannabis and cocaine but people just say "well it's more prevalent, so that's why" (even if you'd have thought these reports factored that in).
The only way cocaine will be as prevalent as tobacco is if it's legalised and sold in somewhere like Boots - and would thus be regulated and not cut with carcinogens... so still wouldn't be causing cancer at the rate tobacco does!
EDIT: Here's another report, from just 4 years ago.
"Worldwide, alcohol and tobacco cause much more death, disability and addiction than illegal drugs, according to a new review."
https://www.livescience.com/62540-drug-threats-health.html
Again, though, I'll be told "well it's because alcohol and tobacco are more prevalent" so without all things being equal this debate can't really go anywhere...
Actually, I just had a thought. Where we can negate the "prevalence" argument is Portugal. Obviously a small sample compared to the world, but "the number of deaths caused by illicit drug use... have decreased significantly since 2001" (when illegal drugs were decriminalised).
So despite drugs being legal, drug deaths have DECREASED.
https://transformdrugs.org/blog/the-success-of-portugals-decriminalisation-polic
Here's the evidence you wanted, Joe.
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 11:33]
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"Obviously a small sample compared to the world, but "the number of deaths caused by illicit drug use... have decreased significantly since 2001" (when illegal drugs were decriminalised)."
How can deaths caused by illicit drug decrease significantly when they aren't illicit anymore? | |
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