| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today 17:38 - Oct 5 with 1893 views | bluelagos |
Reminded me of the day I lost faith in New Labour - watching on TV at the Labour conference when a heckler (An old guy) was ejected rather than engaged with. Think it came out he was a war hero too. Convinced me that those in power were more interested in appearances than in discussion.
Protest may be inconvenient, it may not be want you want to hear, but using force rather than words/argument to deal with it is pretty pathetic imho.
Democracy thrives on argument and protest is a key part of it. Shame so many seem unwilling to engage with protesters if/when it isn't done in the manner they approve of. |  |
| |  |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 17:46 - Oct 5 with 1848 views | HARRY10 |
It is a matter of context (and where)
The judicial system, especially courts.
Perhaps you should be permitted to heckle barristers and judges |  | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:08 - Oct 5 with 1779 views | EastTownBlue |
Walter Wolfgang who moved to Britain to escape from Nazi Germany.
Today’s removal was inevitable compared to an old chap sitting in the back row heckling the awful Jack Straw. Today’s protest seemed rather helpful to Truss during her speech. | | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:12 - Oct 5 with 1755 views | HARRY10 |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:08 - Oct 5 by EastTownBlue |
Walter Wolfgang who moved to Britain to escape from Nazi Germany.
Today’s removal was inevitable compared to an old chap sitting in the back row heckling the awful Jack Straw. Today’s protest seemed rather helpful to Truss during her speech. |
That overlooks that you are in someone else's space - who have the right to determine what happens there. That the chap had escaped Nazi Germany should have no bearing on the case. | | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:39 - Oct 5 with 1700 views | EastTownBlue |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:12 - Oct 5 by HARRY10 |
That overlooks that you are in someone else's space - who have the right to determine what happens there. That the chap had escaped Nazi Germany should have no bearing on the case. |
It shouldn’t but he wasn’t there to just protest as he was a member of the Labour party, not sure of the background to today’s protesters. I don’t know why anyone would want to suffer a Truss conference speech unnecessarily. | | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:00 - Oct 5 with 1653 views | BlueBadger |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:12 - Oct 5 by HARRY10 |
That overlooks that you are in someone else's space - who have the right to determine what happens there. That the chap had escaped Nazi Germany should have no bearing on the case. |
Are you seriously arguing in favour of suppression of debate at party conferences? |  |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:05 - Oct 5 with 1642 views | HARRY10 |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:39 - Oct 5 by EastTownBlue |
It shouldn’t but he wasn’t there to just protest as he was a member of the Labour party, not sure of the background to today’s protesters. I don’t know why anyone would want to suffer a Truss conference speech unnecessarily. |
There is an expected conduct, as in on here. Though righties endlessly bleat about 'free speech' when they have had their bigoted guff removed elsewhere.
Todays protest suggests planning, as they would have had to join the Tory Party to get accreditation and so be able to attend the meeting. The intent would have been to draw attention, via being chucked out.
That a number of nutters became over exited about that event and not the guff Truss had been spouting before is yet another own goal.
Previous Tory conferences were always noted for the 'Sid and Doris Bonkers' elderly types falling asleep in the afternoon, as they usually did at home. Attending the Tory conference was regarded as a reward for years of dutiful envelope filling in their local branch (see below)
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/nhs-conservative-conference-coffey-speech-
I don't think there has been much comment about any speech made. A few sharp intakes of breath as Braverman spat out her spoken version of 'Tomorrow belongs to me'
Truss has been rightly ridiculed, not so much for her weird delivery, but what it contained. Or actually, did not contain. Watching some of it I could only conclude that those familiar with the Wind in the Willows will recall the banquet where the weasels, stoats and other sundry vermin have taken over Toad Hall -
I give you this year's Tory conference | | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:25 - Oct 5 with 1591 views | giant_stow |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:00 - Oct 5 by BlueBadger |
Are you seriously arguing in favour of suppression of debate at party conferences? |
There's a difference between debate and heckling. No idea if the old German guy in the op was at a debate, but today's was a speech innit, so they heckled. Fair enough for them to do that but no one would expect Truss to break off and debate their issue. [Post edited 5 Oct 2022 19:26]
|  |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:45 - Oct 5 with 1543 views | HARRY10 |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:25 - Oct 5 by giant_stow |
There's a difference between debate and heckling. No idea if the old German guy in the op was at a debate, but today's was a speech innit, so they heckled. Fair enough for them to do that but no one would expect Truss to break off and debate their issue. [Post edited 5 Oct 2022 19:26]
|
It was heckling. Tadger is merely doing his usual twisting the of facts.
However, in the case of this chap it was very badly handled, as was he. A polite request to not shout out, then a warning that persistent disruption would mean his eviction should have been the approach.
Unfortunately all too often at large events the stewards are from a separate organisation and are often a law unto themselves (Altamont 1969).
Whatever the merits of todays protestors they certainly gained maximum publicity, which was their aim. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:51 - Oct 5 with 1532 views | bluelagos |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:08 - Oct 5 by EastTownBlue |
Walter Wolfgang who moved to Britain to escape from Nazi Germany.
Today’s removal was inevitable compared to an old chap sitting in the back row heckling the awful Jack Straw. Today’s protest seemed rather helpful to Truss during her speech. |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Wolfgang
That was him. A long term peace activist whose family had fled Nazi Germany. Heckled Jack Straw and was thrown out of the conference. | |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:14 - Oct 5 with 1515 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 18:08 - Oct 5 by EastTownBlue |
Walter Wolfgang who moved to Britain to escape from Nazi Germany.
Today’s removal was inevitable compared to an old chap sitting in the back row heckling the awful Jack Straw. Today’s protest seemed rather helpful to Truss during her speech. |
These days there's a good chance he wouldn't even be let in the country in order to demonstrate. He'd have to do so from Rwanda.
That incident all those years ago has been bought up a couple of times today on various shows I've heard. I vaguely remember it too. It wasn't a good look then and today's is unsavoury as well. If you've the courage of your convictions you agree to talk to people with grievances, not forcibly eject them.
(A photographer was manhandled out of the conference today too- not sure what the issue was there). |  |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:17 - Oct 5 with 1507 views | bluelagos |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:14 - Oct 5 by Swansea_Blue |
These days there's a good chance he wouldn't even be let in the country in order to demonstrate. He'd have to do so from Rwanda.
That incident all those years ago has been bought up a couple of times today on various shows I've heard. I vaguely remember it too. It wasn't a good look then and today's is unsavoury as well. If you've the courage of your convictions you agree to talk to people with grievances, not forcibly eject them.
(A photographer was manhandled out of the conference today too- not sure what the issue was there). |
Pretty much my thoughts. Am no fan of Rees Mogg, but he frequently engages protesters in polite discussion when he can. Not many share his approach which is a shame. | |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:23 - Oct 5 with 1491 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:17 - Oct 5 by bluelagos |
Pretty much my thoughts. Am no fan of Rees Mogg, but he frequently engages protesters in polite discussion when he can. Not many share his approach which is a shame. |
I hear he’s even been known to offer them a job on one of his workhouses… | | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:23 - Oct 5 with 1492 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:17 - Oct 5 by bluelagos |
Pretty much my thoughts. Am no fan of Rees Mogg, but he frequently engages protesters in polite discussion when he can. Not many share his approach which is a shame. |
For all his faults, yes that's a good spot. He does talk to people | |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:30 - Oct 5 with 1463 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:14 - Oct 5 by Swansea_Blue |
These days there's a good chance he wouldn't even be let in the country in order to demonstrate. He'd have to do so from Rwanda.
That incident all those years ago has been bought up a couple of times today on various shows I've heard. I vaguely remember it too. It wasn't a good look then and today's is unsavoury as well. If you've the courage of your convictions you agree to talk to people with grievances, not forcibly eject them.
(A photographer was manhandled out of the conference today too- not sure what the issue was there). |
He didn't get liz's best side? |  |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 21:27 - Oct 5 with 1403 views | factual_blue |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 20:23 - Oct 5 by Swansea_Blue |
For all his faults, yes that's a good spot. He does talk to people |
'Down' is missing from your second sentence. |  |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 21:32 - Oct 5 with 1382 views | giant_stow |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 21:27 - Oct 5 by factual_blue |
'Down' is missing from your second sentence. |
...Or tries to, at least, but I reckon most people can see through his act now. It's true though - as Swansea says he doesn't run from arguments. | |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 21:42 - Oct 5 with 1358 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 21:27 - Oct 5 by factual_blue |
'Down' is missing from your second sentence. |
There’s another four letter word applying to him that I missed out too. I didn’t want anyone to start blushing at the profanity! | |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 21:43 - Oct 5 with 1355 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:05 - Oct 5 by HARRY10 |
There is an expected conduct, as in on here. Though righties endlessly bleat about 'free speech' when they have had their bigoted guff removed elsewhere.
Todays protest suggests planning, as they would have had to join the Tory Party to get accreditation and so be able to attend the meeting. The intent would have been to draw attention, via being chucked out.
That a number of nutters became over exited about that event and not the guff Truss had been spouting before is yet another own goal.
Previous Tory conferences were always noted for the 'Sid and Doris Bonkers' elderly types falling asleep in the afternoon, as they usually did at home. Attending the Tory conference was regarded as a reward for years of dutiful envelope filling in their local branch (see below)
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/nhs-conservative-conference-coffey-speech-
I don't think there has been much comment about any speech made. A few sharp intakes of breath as Braverman spat out her spoken version of 'Tomorrow belongs to me'
Truss has been rightly ridiculed, not so much for her weird delivery, but what it contained. Or actually, did not contain. Watching some of it I could only conclude that those familiar with the Wind in the Willows will recall the banquet where the weasels, stoats and other sundry vermin have taken over Toad Hall -
I give you this year's Tory conference |
We are very easily distracted by things that don’t matter. That could be more significant than most of us realise. | |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 22:35 - Oct 5 with 1294 views | BlueBadger |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:45 - Oct 5 by HARRY10 |
It was heckling. Tadger is merely doing his usual twisting the of facts.
However, in the case of this chap it was very badly handled, as was he. A polite request to not shout out, then a warning that persistent disruption would mean his eviction should have been the approach.
Unfortunately all too often at large events the stewards are from a separate organisation and are often a law unto themselves (Altamont 1969).
Whatever the merits of todays protestors they certainly gained maximum publicity, which was their aim. |
I'm not sure that 'dissent at Tory party conferences about terrible policies is OK but not at Labour conferences about terrible policies' is quite the gotcha you think it is, Hazza. [Post edited 5 Oct 2022 22:36]
| |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:27 - Oct 7 with 1036 views | Crawfordsboot |
oK I’ll bite - you say
“Protest may be inconvenient, it may not be want you want to hear, but using force rather than words/argument to deal with it is pretty pathetic imho.
Democracy thrives on argument and protest is a key part of it. Shame so many seem unwilling to engage with protesters if/when it isn't done in the manner they approve of.”
However democracy thrives on discussion and debate not on the tyranny of the few who use direct action (force) in order to impose their minority view on the majority. (Eg anti abortion American religious fundamentalists). Direct action is not engaging - it is individuals seeking to impose their righteous views on others. By definition they have failed to persuade the majority to their point of view and are resorting to force. |  | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 11:59 - Oct 8 with 911 views | bluelagos |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 19:27 - Oct 7 by Crawfordsboot |
oK I’ll bite - you say
“Protest may be inconvenient, it may not be want you want to hear, but using force rather than words/argument to deal with it is pretty pathetic imho.
Democracy thrives on argument and protest is a key part of it. Shame so many seem unwilling to engage with protesters if/when it isn't done in the manner they approve of.”
However democracy thrives on discussion and debate not on the tyranny of the few who use direct action (force) in order to impose their minority view on the majority. (Eg anti abortion American religious fundamentalists). Direct action is not engaging - it is individuals seeking to impose their righteous views on others. By definition they have failed to persuade the majority to their point of view and are resorting to force. |
Exactly the same argument as yours could be used against the suffragettes.
Indeed am pretty sure it was. | |
| |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 15:28 - Oct 8 with 799 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 11:59 - Oct 8 by bluelagos |
Exactly the same argument as yours could be used against the suffragettes.
Indeed am pretty sure it was. |
I make no comment on the merits or otherwise of particular actions or protest. Rather I was simply highlighting the weakness in the argument put forward by Lagos.
He says “using force rather than words/argument to deal with it is pretty pathetic imho”.
That works both ways. Indeed the original comment implies that it is pathetic to use force instead of debate and logic when dealing with direct action (which can itself be described as force or coercion).
Would you argue that force or coercion is acceptable if you happen to feel strongly enough about something even if no one else does.
Of course I recognise the dilemma in that I would agree with all that the suffragettes wanted to achieve. I don’t really have an answer to the contradiction but it is an interesting idea. | | | |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 15:42 - Oct 8 with 761 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Throwing out those Greenpeace protesters today on 12:47 - Oct 8 by Darth_Koont |
Yep.
People describe MLK as taking the peaceful path and winning hearts and minds to achieve change. But that’s largely a myth as he was was largely reviled and considered a rabble-rouser/traitor/commie by the majority right up to his death.
In no small part because of the establishment politicians and media who weren’t on the side of change or indeed giving non-whites their civil rights. |
I’m not sure this is correct.
MLK did try to follow non violent protest. By and large he did so and it was not a myth. Certainly white southern authorities and populace viewed the protestors as rabble and troublemakers. It was however the southern whites who used violence against them. Ultimately sufficient numbers of Americans (black and white) recognised this fact and segregation was ended. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
