| Update from the pub coal face. 16:04 - Nov 25 with 5625 views | catch74 |
If you haven’t heard Heineken are going with a big price hike in January.
If you don’t know their brands it’s the likes of Kronenberg, Amstel, Fosters, Moretti. I imagine that’ll equate to a 50p a pint price rise to for pubs to cover this - more if tied. I thankfully don’t use Heineken.
Costs off the top of my head that have affected us over the year.
7% increase on all alcohol products - this was pre energy crisis so more to come clearly.
Business rates for next year - £1200 a month - we had full rate relief during lock downs and then been paying £600 month this year.
Meat - particularly chicken (30%), probably 20% rise all told.
VAT - this time last year we had a reduced rate on food sales 12.5% - my VAT for this quarter last year was £8500, this year £21000 - from very slightly higher sales .
Coffee - 20% rise
Fish - maybe conservatively 20%. Our food specials are so much more limited, there are just so few dishes we can cost out that would sit at the right level for our pub.
Cooking oil - doubled in price .
Veg maybe least affected but I’d say 10%.
We’ve streamlined, found a new butcher with good produce and good price - but we’ve taken our custom away from the local village butcher - which I really didn’t like. I’ve found a new supplier and playing off prices with current on alcohol supply. We’ve put our prices up but they’ll need to go up again in spring - let’s see what joys the budget brings.
We’re a strong business and we’re getting through this but I can see carnage, particularly with tied pubs next year (a lot of big companies are merely offsetting the costs of their borrowing against their estates as things stand) when interest rates go up again. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 19:22 - Nov 25 with 1638 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 18:40 - Nov 25 by catch74 |
Sadly not - to be fair they’re still trying to work out how the support from the govt will change that. Although it’s a bit scary it’s taking this long. |
You need to be creative - swap out any TVs for a naked mud wrestling pool for the ladies, everyone would soon work up a sweat = no heating needed. Sorted! 
I don’t see how you (or anyone) can bear those sort of costs. Unless margins before were massive. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 19:26 - Nov 25 with 1629 views | gtsb1966 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 19:18 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Problem is, you can only borrow money when you don't need it.
If you actually need a cash injection you are likely to fail the credit test. |
I've an excellent credit record yet I know someone who gets offered money, at a ridiculous Apr, who has a poor one. Wasn't it the mistakes of the banks that f****d the economy in 2007. Years of lending money to people who couldn't afford it. I remember every Sunday newspaper late 90's into the noughties having an Alliance and Leicester leaflet offering a loan. [Post edited 25 Nov 2022 19:27]
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 19:59 - Nov 25 with 1604 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 19:26 - Nov 25 by gtsb1966 |
I've an excellent credit record yet I know someone who gets offered money, at a ridiculous Apr, who has a poor one. Wasn't it the mistakes of the banks that f****d the economy in 2007. Years of lending money to people who couldn't afford it. I remember every Sunday newspaper late 90's into the noughties having an Alliance and Leicester leaflet offering a loan. [Post edited 25 Nov 2022 19:27]
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I remember doing the Exhibition circuit in the 90's and there were hoards of birds going around trying to sign people up to credit cards.
Got to know a lot of them as you bumped into them from show to show and they said that it was a free for all, only a few people were checked.
These days Experian seems to say yes or no. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 20:26 - Nov 25 with 1585 views | stonojnr |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 16:21 - Nov 25 by Meadowlark |
Adnams Southwold Bitter and Adnams Old are both still only £3.40/pint in my local! |
its basically £5 in most Adnams pubs thesedays. I feel sorry for them because when people do see its £3.40 elsewhere, theyll think these pubs are raking it in charging 1.60 more, but they arent, theyre struggling as much as everyone else.
support your local, or lose it is never more something people need to understand, not in December because Christmas trade will carry them through, but in January, even if its just a single pint you can afford, it all helps. |  | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 21:01 - Nov 25 with 1558 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 20:26 - Nov 25 by stonojnr |
its basically £5 in most Adnams pubs thesedays. I feel sorry for them because when people do see its £3.40 elsewhere, theyll think these pubs are raking it in charging 1.60 more, but they arent, theyre struggling as much as everyone else.
support your local, or lose it is never more something people need to understand, not in December because Christmas trade will carry them through, but in January, even if its just a single pint you can afford, it all helps. |
I think £5 a pint is fair enough, people need to make money or everyone is screwed.
At the risk of becoming a complete bore I've been spending a lot of time up north recently in Cannock. I've never paid more that £3.95 a pint up there, Whetherspoons is as low as £1.99 - and herein lay the problem - all the pubs have gone bust. The only reason I went in Whetherspoons was because there is hardly anywhere else to go - because Whetherspoons has bankrupted them. Normally I never hit Whetherspoons.
However - and I feel strongly about this. Whetherspoons advertise their hours as open until 12pm and serving food until 11pm - and no matter if they had no one in the place they will stick to those times. Whereas, an independent will advertise until 11pm or 12pm but get to 9.30pm and say - "Feck it, no one is here so I'll shut the pub and go to bed"
This is part of the problem IMHO. We have retail shops and if we are open until xxxx then we stay open till xxxx, even though we are massively seasonal and can go a week without seeing a walk in customer.
Mate of mine had a similar business to ours and was in one of the best locations in UK, 200m from M25 on Bullsmoor Lane just off A10. If he was quiet he would b$gger off home and eventually he failed
I appreciate that some pubs simply capitulate through absolutely no fault of their own but the industry is such that if you do a sterling job then you can make it****
****Subject to Pubco not screwing you. | |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 21:09 - Nov 25 with 1551 views | gtsb1966 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 21:01 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
I think £5 a pint is fair enough, people need to make money or everyone is screwed.
At the risk of becoming a complete bore I've been spending a lot of time up north recently in Cannock. I've never paid more that £3.95 a pint up there, Whetherspoons is as low as £1.99 - and herein lay the problem - all the pubs have gone bust. The only reason I went in Whetherspoons was because there is hardly anywhere else to go - because Whetherspoons has bankrupted them. Normally I never hit Whetherspoons.
However - and I feel strongly about this. Whetherspoons advertise their hours as open until 12pm and serving food until 11pm - and no matter if they had no one in the place they will stick to those times. Whereas, an independent will advertise until 11pm or 12pm but get to 9.30pm and say - "Feck it, no one is here so I'll shut the pub and go to bed"
This is part of the problem IMHO. We have retail shops and if we are open until xxxx then we stay open till xxxx, even though we are massively seasonal and can go a week without seeing a walk in customer.
Mate of mine had a similar business to ours and was in one of the best locations in UK, 200m from M25 on Bullsmoor Lane just off A10. If he was quiet he would b$gger off home and eventually he failed
I appreciate that some pubs simply capitulate through absolutely no fault of their own but the industry is such that if you do a sterling job then you can make it****
****Subject to Pubco not screwing you. |
Your very first sentence. Most people can't afford that. | | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 21:23 - Nov 25 with 1542 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 21:09 - Nov 25 by gtsb1966 |
Your very first sentence. Most people can't afford that. |
I completely understand what you are saying but surely if they can't afford £5 then at £3.90 they would be sailing close to the wind as well.
I've just typed reasons why £3.90 isn't that much difference than £5 but each time I do it I sound like an arsehole.
So the answer is - I don't know.
Everyone deserves to go in the pub, even just for a couple of pints. | |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:04 - Nov 25 with 1497 views | brogansnose |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 18:13 - Nov 25 by catch74 |
Yep - you can watch sport at home on your own big screen, buy any alcoholic drink in at a fraction of the price - even draught systems now, ready made meals from the supermarket or delivered to the door. It’s easy to stay at home and have the pub experience - just without the interaction with those locals etc. that you wouldn’t necessarily meet outside those four walls. You can even pick up the trades/ contacts etc online that you would have benefited from going to the pub.
Shame - great times and probably pretty healthy mentally if not physically! |
Personally, I'd slap more VAT on shop purchased alcohol and decrease the level on pub sales. Drinking in pubs is much healthier for all the reasons you say and better community wise. |  | | |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:04 - Nov 25 with 1496 views | gtsb1966 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 21:23 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
I completely understand what you are saying but surely if they can't afford £5 then at £3.90 they would be sailing close to the wind as well.
I've just typed reasons why £3.90 isn't that much difference than £5 but each time I do it I sound like an arsehole.
So the answer is - I don't know.
Everyone deserves to go in the pub, even just for a couple of pints. |
£5 a pint is OK casually, £5 a pint in a local isn't. | | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:11 - Nov 25 with 1488 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:04 - Nov 25 by brogansnose |
Personally, I'd slap more VAT on shop purchased alcohol and decrease the level on pub sales. Drinking in pubs is much healthier for all the reasons you say and better community wise. |
Somebody I work for is really high up in the world of finance and fund management. Talking with him today and neither of us have the foggiest idea how society survives the new normal.
Things are going to get very messy. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:11 - Nov 25 with 1488 views | catch74 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 19:22 - Nov 25 by Swansea_Blue |
You need to be creative - swap out any TVs for a naked mud wrestling pool for the ladies, everyone would soon work up a sweat = no heating needed. Sorted!
I don’t see how you (or anyone) can bear those sort of costs. Unless margins before were massive. |
When I worked on the High Street I came up with the idea of fit club.
You pay £10 to get in if you’re not fit, you get paid £10 to come in if you’re fit.
It didn’t quite get off the drawing board. | |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:19 - Nov 25 with 1480 views | catch74 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:04 - Nov 25 by brogansnose |
Personally, I'd slap more VAT on shop purchased alcohol and decrease the level on pub sales. Drinking in pubs is much healthier for all the reasons you say and better community wise. |
Agree, would be an easy way to offset some of the damage to those more able to afford it.
Supermarkets pay no tax on food sales either , all ours is 20% - but without being able to claim back on purchases - so would be good to even that out too. | |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 10:41 - Nov 26 with 1392 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:19 - Nov 25 by catch74 |
Agree, would be an easy way to offset some of the damage to those more able to afford it.
Supermarkets pay no tax on food sales either , all ours is 20% - but without being able to claim back on purchases - so would be good to even that out too. |
I think some sort of reform is in order.
That's why Greggs don't keep their food heated, they bake the sh1t and then let it go cold - no VAT on non heated food purchases.
Even as a borderline alcoholic I can see the argument of raising alcohol VAT in resales to 30% +
But then again.......it will hit the poorest and most needy. Difficult thing this government lark isn't it. | |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 11:14 - Nov 26 with 1374 views | Meadowlark |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 20:26 - Nov 25 by stonojnr |
its basically £5 in most Adnams pubs thesedays. I feel sorry for them because when people do see its £3.40 elsewhere, theyll think these pubs are raking it in charging 1.60 more, but they arent, theyre struggling as much as everyone else.
support your local, or lose it is never more something people need to understand, not in December because Christmas trade will carry them through, but in January, even if its just a single pint you can afford, it all helps. |
My local is a family run (same landlady for 24 years) back street boozer. No food.
It tends to be busier during the afternoons these days and our regular group on a Friday night are sometimes the only customers in there after 9..00 pm. I realise how lucky we are to have such a place.
Unfortunately there are no youngsters coming through the doors as Wetherspons and trendier bars are more attractive I guess, but I keep asking my kids where they will gp for a drink when they are my age if all the traditional pubs have closed by then?
I love traditional pubs, but they are disappearing. |  | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 11:14 - Nov 26 with 1374 views | stonojnr |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:04 - Nov 25 by brogansnose |
Personally, I'd slap more VAT on shop purchased alcohol and decrease the level on pub sales. Drinking in pubs is much healthier for all the reasons you say and better community wise. |
its what Tim Martin keeps proposing. | | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 13:55 - Nov 26 with 1296 views | WeWereZombies |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 10:41 - Nov 26 by Lord_Lucan |
I think some sort of reform is in order.
That's why Greggs don't keep their food heated, they bake the sh1t and then let it go cold - no VAT on non heated food purchases.
Even as a borderline alcoholic I can see the argument of raising alcohol VAT in resales to 30% +
But then again.......it will hit the poorest and most needy. Difficult thing this government lark isn't it. |
Although if 30% VAT puts the poorest and most needy off buying alcohol then it might actually help them (apart from red wine, you need that for the polyphenols.) |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 15:21 - Nov 26 with 1250 views | GlasgowBlue |
I can confirm from the restaurant coal face that I was paying £29 for a box of 18 270g cod fillets and that same box is now £63. Told the supplier I would shop around and they got it down to fourth five quid. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 15:38 - Nov 26 with 1235 views | jeera |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 13:55 - Nov 26 by WeWereZombies |
Although if 30% VAT puts the poorest and most needy off buying alcohol then it might actually help them (apart from red wine, you need that for the polyphenols.) |
Or just puts another pastime/pleasure out of reach for the poorest.
Even have a drink could become for the elite only. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 15:51 - Nov 26 with 1229 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 15:38 - Nov 26 by jeera |
Or just puts another pastime/pleasure out of reach for the poorest.
Even have a drink could become for the elite only. |
Home brew around an open fire is much more fun and you can plot insurrection while you're at it. | |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 16:02 - Nov 26 with 1219 views | HARRY10 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 22:11 - Nov 25 by catch74 |
When I worked on the High Street I came up with the idea of fit club.
You pay £10 to get in if you’re not fit, you get paid £10 to come in if you’re fit.
It didn’t quite get off the drawing board. |
I still think my thought about charging for flying will take off (geddit?)
Before check in you do a weigh in. You are your baggage are weighed and then charged accordingly.
Maybe having to submit the total weight in advance and so the fatties are put on a separate plane. They have the room they need, and others are not squashed
A sort of jumbo jet, if you like
Else where there is a fair bit of what loosely might be termed 'profiteering' especially in supermarkets. In Sainsburys I have noticed items that rose by more than 30%, have now dropped back again. That is the nature of the game. Sellers will seek to get the highest price possible.
There is a bonus though. If you are a shoplifter then you have already upped your game with no extra effort. | | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 16:09 - Nov 26 with 1216 views | chicoazul |
Maybe closing the world economy for months was a bad idea after all. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 16:11 - Nov 26 with 1215 views | brogansnose |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 15:38 - Nov 26 by jeera |
Or just puts another pastime/pleasure out of reach for the poorest.
Even have a drink could become for the elite only. |
We could also say the same about tabacco which has a high tax threshold. Either way, when it's possible to go to a supermarket and buy their own brand vodka or gin for a little over a tenner and a pack of four for the price of a pub pint then I think that there's lee way to balance things out to help the hostelry trade, not to mention, give some to the NHS to deal with alcohol abuse. | | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 16:28 - Nov 26 with 1187 views | J2BLUE |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 21:23 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
I completely understand what you are saying but surely if they can't afford £5 then at £3.90 they would be sailing close to the wind as well.
I've just typed reasons why £3.90 isn't that much difference than £5 but each time I do it I sound like an arsehole.
So the answer is - I don't know.
Everyone deserves to go in the pub, even just for a couple of pints. |
Everything has a price point that is acceptable. £5 for a pint is a lot. £3.90 sounds much more reasonable. We’re talking a 28% difference which is quite a lot.
If someone goes to the pub once a week and had 3 pints that’s a £170 difference over the year at a time when people are much more concerned about paying their energy bill or rent.
Literally everything seems to have gone up by at least 10%. I really fear for the economy over the next few years. |  |
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| Update from the pub coal face. on 16:38 - Nov 26 with 1179 views | HARRY10 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 16:09 - Nov 26 by chicoazul |
Maybe closing the world economy for months was a bad idea after all. |
I know you righties are not too bright, but
"closing the world economy for months" | | | |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 17:04 - Nov 26 with 1167 views | HARRY10 |
| Update from the pub coal face. on 18:30 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Yeah, it's the start - and it isn't just Ukraine.
When everyone was saying -"Oh, we are out of Covid" I was always thinking - You ain't seen nothing yet baby! I posted it on here enough.
You can't shut down the worlds economy without facing 20 years of sh1te. |
What I can't understand is the fact that the UK is not heavily dependent on fossil fuels. Yet we seem to be being hit as hard as elsewhere.
Why am I paying three times the amount for a standing charge ? My electric supply is minimal to maintain.
The government sits on it's arz and lets the energy companies charge what they like. But, bleat the Tory government, they need all those profit to re-invest. So how come they never previously raised the cost to enable them to re-invest ?
If coal fired power station are opened up, will the charge be what it costs them to produce energy, or what that energy can fetch on the open market.
It takes a crisis like this to highlight the absurdity of privatisation. Take a look at the failing rail system. Have a read of what is happening to sewage (below).
The utilities are the basic building blocks of society. They should not be run for profit whereby their main purpose is to generate bonuses for executives and ever higher dividends for shareholders - to the detriment of service.
We have a corrupt government, supported by an idiot populace who are easily distracted by stories of how furriners are invading our country, how some mysterious plague called wokey cokey is ravishing the land and only those who have attended a private school are suitable to deal with things (line their pockets).
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/26/water-chiefs-blame-uk-govern [Post edited 26 Nov 2022 17:14]
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