| Starmer. 22:54 - May 9 with 6362 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
No nationalisation, no taxing the better off and needs to let the latest anti protest laws "bed in."
Voting....it's overrated! |  |
| |  |
| Starmer. on 11:12 - May 10 with 2450 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer. on 11:04 - May 10 by DJR |
No worries at all.
I have always been a bit dubious about Owen Jones, who always struck me as being rather shallow. But I do think he is one of the very few people in the mainstream media questioning what is going on in the Labour Party under Starmer. Of course, that might then come across as anti-Labour but he does reflect the views of many on the left, like me, who are not particularly happy with the direction of travel. And many of us are not Corbynistas.
And what he is saying does, in effect, reflect the views of many not on the left who do wonder what Labour actually stands for. |
I can't say I blame the left for having the hump, but the most important thing now is ridding the country of the Tories. As Geoffrey says above, hopefully Starmer is just playing the game well (playing that game might not be ideal, but if its the only way to power right now...)
And to backup your mainstream comment, I think Jones' regular slot on Jeremy Vine is a massive platform - I just hope he uses it wisely as we get closer to the elections. |  |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:02 - May 10 with 2387 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer. on 11:12 - May 10 by giant_stow |
I can't say I blame the left for having the hump, but the most important thing now is ridding the country of the Tories. As Geoffrey says above, hopefully Starmer is just playing the game well (playing that game might not be ideal, but if its the only way to power right now...)
And to backup your mainstream comment, I think Jones' regular slot on Jeremy Vine is a massive platform - I just hope he uses it wisely as we get closer to the elections. |
The most important thing – for people and the planet – is to get us out of this dead-end rut of self-interested politics and economics.
More of the same with a different badge is probably even worse than the Tories still in power because it’s killed actual debate about real issues and real policy.
We haven’t got time for this charade. |  |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:09 - May 10 with 2366 views | GeoffSentence |
| Starmer. on 12:02 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
The most important thing – for people and the planet – is to get us out of this dead-end rut of self-interested politics and economics.
More of the same with a different badge is probably even worse than the Tories still in power because it’s killed actual debate about real issues and real policy.
We haven’t got time for this charade. |
how do you propose we do that? |  |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:19 - May 10 with 2337 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer. on 10:16 - May 10 by DJR |
|
When a candidate for the Tory leadership comes out with right wing rhetoric, most people tend to hope that he or she is only saying it to appeal to their base but will be more moderate when elected leader.
That is all Starmer has done. Needed to appeal to the Corbynista cranks and racists to get the gig, before booting them out and going down a more moderate and electable road. |  |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:25 - May 10 with 2319 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer. on 12:09 - May 10 by GeoffSentence |
how do you propose we do that? |
We can start with some honesty.
If we don’t think Starmer’s Labour is the answer then we can say so. And it doesn’t mean that we think the Tories are. Anyway, there’s a fag paper between them on the major issues affecting the country so even the Get the Tories Out mantra is looking pretty shallow and ropey.
Seems to be a lot of centrist dads complaining about the Tories but any change is still on their own terms of low tax, low investment and society having to pay its own way. It’s essentially the same.
Anyone supporting the same centre-right settlement and the same lack of scrutiny from our equally self-serving political media needs to say why. | |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:27 - May 10 with 2308 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer. on 12:19 - May 10 by GlasgowBlue |
When a candidate for the Tory leadership comes out with right wing rhetoric, most people tend to hope that he or she is only saying it to appeal to their base but will be more moderate when elected leader.
That is all Starmer has done. Needed to appeal to the Corbynista cranks and racists to get the gig, before booting them out and going down a more moderate and electable road. |
Haha! You and Starmer’s Labour are made for each other.
The same dishonest and sneaky politics for the same right-wing ends. | |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:29 - May 10 with 2282 views | mutters |
Starmer is going the blow it in my opinion.
Labour is just not pushing the advantage home, and at this stage, I am not sure he is the right man to lead the country (not saying that there is much choice). I wish I knew what Labour stood for.
It's going to be a hung parliament at the next GE, with deals galore for power. Or even worse the parties end up taking votes off each other and the Conservatives will sneak back in.
Wake Up Starmer!!! |  |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:30 - May 10 with 2281 views | nodge_blue |
It is a little odd that they oppose the anti protest bill in parliament but now see it as needing to bed in.Goes to show the games that get played all the time. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Starmer. on 12:34 - May 10 with 2269 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmer. on 12:29 - May 10 by mutters |
Starmer is going the blow it in my opinion.
Labour is just not pushing the advantage home, and at this stage, I am not sure he is the right man to lead the country (not saying that there is much choice). I wish I knew what Labour stood for.
It's going to be a hung parliament at the next GE, with deals galore for power. Or even worse the parties end up taking votes off each other and the Conservatives will sneak back in.
Wake Up Starmer!!! |
The next GE is likely 17 months away, there is so much time to show what they represent - people want full policies now and as soon as Labour show anything the Tories just nick it, package it badly and announce it (i.e. childcare, energy policy)
People want everything now, and want every position taken now to be finite and never change but the reality is they need to keep their powder dry until the run up to a GE.
They are coming from election oblivion, an 80 seat majority - at the time everyone expected it to take 2 terms to turn round.....now they lead in the polls and anything but a thumping majority is seen as a disaster.
But basically whatever happens now, with no coalition partners left for the Tories, Starmer is going to be the next PM - he might even find it preferable to be in hock with Ed Davey and the Lib Dems than to Richard Burgon and Zarah Sultana and their group of MPs. Cameron found it easier with Clegg and the LDs than the right side of the Tory party ERG types [Post edited 10 May 2023 12:36]
|  |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:36 - May 10 with 2266 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmer. on 12:30 - May 10 by nodge_blue |
It is a little odd that they oppose the anti protest bill in parliament but now see it as needing to bed in.Goes to show the games that get played all the time. |
What is the point in them coming out against it now though? They can't do anything about it and all it does is give Tories loads of attack lines | |
| |
| Starmer. on 12:45 - May 10 with 2247 views | DJR |
| Starmer. on 12:19 - May 10 by GlasgowBlue |
When a candidate for the Tory leadership comes out with right wing rhetoric, most people tend to hope that he or she is only saying it to appeal to their base but will be more moderate when elected leader.
That is all Starmer has done. Needed to appeal to the Corbynista cranks and racists to get the gig, before booting them out and going down a more moderate and electable road. |
Are you saying I am a Corbynista crank and a racist? [Post edited 10 May 2023 12:46]
|  | | |
| Starmer. on 12:57 - May 10 with 2201 views | Swansea_Blue |
I’ll wait for the GE manifesto before drawing any conclusions. They could well have gone full circle on those views by then, twice.
All this dithering and flip flopping is going to hurt him I suspect. It’s a very easy attack line for the Tories. Although as a new attack line maybe it’s less likely to gain traction than if Labour conform to traditional Labour stereotypes? Attack lines like being in the pockets of the unions, wasteful nationalised services, (edit - and soft on immigration and crime of course), etc., are believed by large parts of the population already and baked in. Might it be best to steer clear of that normal ground?
Fk knows. It’s all a bit weird Labour seemingly wanting to reduce any clear water between them and this current vile version of the Tories. Best to wait and see how things shape up much closer to the GE - nobody can win anything this far out. [Post edited 10 May 2023 13:05]
|  |
| |
| Starmer. on 13:05 - May 10 with 2181 views | DJR |
| Starmer. on 12:36 - May 10 by itfcjoe |
What is the point in them coming out against it now though? They can't do anything about it and all it does is give Tories loads of attack lines |
For me, things like fundamental rights, the rule of law and international obligations are the most important things there are. The Tories have played hard and fast with them, and it is desperately sad to see the Labour Party's response.
Your either have principles or you don't, and giving them up, or keeping your head down, for electoral advantage is not the way forward. | | | |
| Starmer. on 13:28 - May 10 with 2138 views | itfcjoe |
| Starmer. on 13:05 - May 10 by DJR |
For me, things like fundamental rights, the rule of law and international obligations are the most important things there are. The Tories have played hard and fast with them, and it is desperately sad to see the Labour Party's response.
Your either have principles or you don't, and giving them up, or keeping your head down, for electoral advantage is not the way forward. |
Actions speak louder than words for me, and we'll see how they react to it when setting out manifesto commitments and when (likely) in power | |
| |
| Starmer. on 13:44 - May 10 with 2128 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer. on 12:45 - May 10 by DJR |
Are you saying I am a Corbynista crank and a racist? [Post edited 10 May 2023 12:46]
|
Only one of those three. And I don’t think you are a crank or a racist. | |
| |
| Starmer. on 13:59 - May 10 with 2100 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer. on 13:44 - May 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Only one of those three. And I don’t think you are a crank or a racist. |
Says the man who left the Conservative party in 2017 ... and only because of May’s deal with the DUP.
Your crank and racist detector clearly isn’t much cop. | |
| |
| Starmer. on 14:04 - May 10 with 2085 views | MattinLondon |
| Starmer. on 13:59 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
Says the man who left the Conservative party in 2017 ... and only because of May’s deal with the DUP.
Your crank and racist detector clearly isn’t much cop. |
I know that GB can defend himself perfectly well but isn’t it to GBs credit that he left the Tory Party due to their relationship with the DUP? |  | | |
| Starmer. on 14:09 - May 10 with 2076 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer. on 13:59 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
Says the man who left the Conservative party in 2017 ... and only because of May’s deal with the DUP.
Your crank and racist detector clearly isn’t much cop. |
It's been spot on with regards to you though. | |
| |
| Starmer. on 14:15 - May 10 with 2063 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer. on 12:25 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
We can start with some honesty.
If we don’t think Starmer’s Labour is the answer then we can say so. And it doesn’t mean that we think the Tories are. Anyway, there’s a fag paper between them on the major issues affecting the country so even the Get the Tories Out mantra is looking pretty shallow and ropey.
Seems to be a lot of centrist dads complaining about the Tories but any change is still on their own terms of low tax, low investment and society having to pay its own way. It’s essentially the same.
Anyone supporting the same centre-right settlement and the same lack of scrutiny from our equally self-serving political media needs to say why. |
You talk of urgency and lack of time, but then suggest we basically ignore the current political process / party structures. I don't think those two views are compatible, personally. If time is of the essence, then holding you nose and ignoring current politics is nonsense.
Btw, which 'Centrist Dads'* have been calling for low tax and low investment?
* you're clearly also an avid reader of Owen Jones and a fan of his lazy labels | |
| |
| Starmer. on 14:23 - May 10 with 2047 views | DJR |
| Starmer. on 13:44 - May 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Only one of those three. And I don’t think you are a crank or a racist. |
How can I be a Corbynista if I didn't vote for him in either leadership election?
Strange as it may seem, people tend to join the Labour Party because they are of the left. And in nearly forty years of party membership, I have never come across anyone who is racist or antisemitic.
But your smear suggests people who voted for Starmer (who was offering left wing policies attractive to the membership at large) were cranks and racists.
As it was, those who were Corbynistas (to use your word) would have voted for Rebecca Long-Bailey, who got 27% of the vote (135,000), as opposed to Starmer who got 56% of the vote (275,000 votes).
I might add that it was nice to have the chance to vote for a candidate who seemed both electable and radical because I have always tended to vote for the most electable candidate, even if they were a bit too centrist for my liking (eg. David Miliband). | | | |
| Starmer. on 14:24 - May 10 with 2036 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer. on 14:09 - May 10 by GlasgowBlue |
It's been spot on with regards to you though. |
That’s not true though is it?
You’ve made an awful lot of smeary accusations. But there are no marks for effort. | |
| |
| Starmer. on 16:24 - May 10 with 1949 views | mutters |
| Starmer. on 12:34 - May 10 by itfcjoe |
The next GE is likely 17 months away, there is so much time to show what they represent - people want full policies now and as soon as Labour show anything the Tories just nick it, package it badly and announce it (i.e. childcare, energy policy)
People want everything now, and want every position taken now to be finite and never change but the reality is they need to keep their powder dry until the run up to a GE.
They are coming from election oblivion, an 80 seat majority - at the time everyone expected it to take 2 terms to turn round.....now they lead in the polls and anything but a thumping majority is seen as a disaster.
But basically whatever happens now, with no coalition partners left for the Tories, Starmer is going to be the next PM - he might even find it preferable to be in hock with Ed Davey and the Lib Dems than to Richard Burgon and Zarah Sultana and their group of MPs. Cameron found it easier with Clegg and the LDs than the right side of the Tory party ERG types [Post edited 10 May 2023 12:36]
|
I agree to a point. There is still time for all parties to show who they are and what they stand for, however, it just doesn't feel like Starmer has much momentum behind him (semi-pun intended;-)).
17 months isnt a lot of time and it just feels like Labour is currently banking on the "anybody but the conservatives" approach. Which will work to a point but at some point they need to step it up and say what they will do. | |
| |
| Starmer. on 17:55 - May 10 with 1885 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer. on 10:16 - May 10 by DJR |
|
Missed this first time around.
Margaret Hodge really is the gift that keeps giving. She seems determined to make sure the quiet stuff about the Labour right comes through. From her own shonky antisemitism complaints, calling out Campaign Against Antisemitism for their clear weaponised agenda and confirming the lying approach Starmer takes.
These aren’t serious or very smart people. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
