| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:05 - May 21 with 2622 views | HARRY10 |
I am pretty much vegetarian in that I rarely eat meat, especially the processed stuff - but attempts to eat, the shyte that replicates meat based food is inedible.
I suspect this is the reason, not that there has been a huge return to meat eating, but the 'plant based' products taste awful.
Supposed burgers, sausages, bacon etc. They seem to cater for the non meat and two veg cranks. It seems for some there has to be set types of food and meals for each day. The drones who eat three times a day at almost exactly the same time.
I suspect there are just as many unsafe ingredients in these Frankenstein creations as ordinary food.
If you can eat simply, fresh and avoid the ingredients being 'mucked about ie processed then do so. But it is 'if you can'. Not some obsession, or something to fetishise about.
I also suspect there are often deeper neuroses over 'veganism' than just the food itself. |  | |  |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:35 - May 21 with 2574 views | clive_baker |
Nope. Plant based food offerings in UK supermarkets have never been more plentiful |  |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:50 - May 21 with 2548 views | KrakenBlue |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:55 - May 21 by DJR |
If nothing else, the Tetra Paks that non-dairy milk is sold in are not even recyclable in this country, although they are in Spain. |
What's your source on this? As far as I was aware they've been recyclable for years | | | |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:55 - May 21 with 2534 views | HARRY10 |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:50 - May 21 by KrakenBlue |
What's your source on this? As far as I was aware they've been recyclable for years |
No, certainly not. Though there is now a move towards recycling by some councils. You cannot put them in your recycling bin. | | | |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 19:17 - May 21 with 2505 views | clive_baker |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:50 - May 21 by KrakenBlue |
What's your source on this? As far as I was aware they've been recyclable for years |
They aren’t household recyclable | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 19:33 - May 21 with 2483 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:05 - May 21 by HARRY10 |
I am pretty much vegetarian in that I rarely eat meat, especially the processed stuff - but attempts to eat, the shyte that replicates meat based food is inedible.
I suspect this is the reason, not that there has been a huge return to meat eating, but the 'plant based' products taste awful.
Supposed burgers, sausages, bacon etc. They seem to cater for the non meat and two veg cranks. It seems for some there has to be set types of food and meals for each day. The drones who eat three times a day at almost exactly the same time.
I suspect there are just as many unsafe ingredients in these Frankenstein creations as ordinary food.
If you can eat simply, fresh and avoid the ingredients being 'mucked about ie processed then do so. But it is 'if you can'. Not some obsession, or something to fetishise about.
I also suspect there are often deeper neuroses over 'veganism' than just the food itself. |
Just look at the gunk that comes out of a veggie/vegan sausage etc in the oven and you know it can't be good for you! |  |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 19:35 - May 21 with 2479 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:50 - May 21 by KrakenBlue |
What's your source on this? As far as I was aware they've been recyclable for years |
Not in Suffolk at least...they get burnt for electricity. | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 19:41 - May 21 with 2462 views | clive_baker |
That’s definitely not the reality, or is certainly misleading. The ‘vegan bubble bursting’ implies a decline in demand and the amount of people adopting a vegan lifestyle, which the stats don’t support. The article then conveniently ignores any actual trends around veganism (which is way broader than just diet anyway) and talks solely about branded plant based food, citing some examples of products being delisted, which isn’t reasonable support of their implication. I would ask what is going in their place? They’re largely replaced with other plant based offerings. The shelf space dedicated to plant based has never been bigger in UK grocery. There are a lot of crap, rushed to market products in the category and inevitably they won’t all have stickability, some will fall by the wayside, but that’s true of all categories. And it’s perfectly common for brands to rotate out their poorest performing products, especially in traditional grocery where there’s a finite amount of shelf space. It’s a little different for online retailers.
The cost of living crisis is almost certainly going to play a part in how people satisfy their vegan diets too. Historically brands in this space have tended to position themselves as premium offerings, more out of necessity due to lower rates of sale and scale and ultimately higher production costs. A cost of living crisis doesn’t benefit those brands as customers tend to trade down into cheaper alternatives. Another factor is that supermarket own brand plant based offerings are much better than they’ve ever been, and these tend to be what people trade into in times of hardship. Tesco for example have absolutely killed it with Wicked Kitchen. Ask Derek Sarno if the plant based bubble is dying and I imagine you’ll get a different answer. | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 19:49 - May 21 with 2455 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 19:41 - May 21 by clive_baker |
That’s definitely not the reality, or is certainly misleading. The ‘vegan bubble bursting’ implies a decline in demand and the amount of people adopting a vegan lifestyle, which the stats don’t support. The article then conveniently ignores any actual trends around veganism (which is way broader than just diet anyway) and talks solely about branded plant based food, citing some examples of products being delisted, which isn’t reasonable support of their implication. I would ask what is going in their place? They’re largely replaced with other plant based offerings. The shelf space dedicated to plant based has never been bigger in UK grocery. There are a lot of crap, rushed to market products in the category and inevitably they won’t all have stickability, some will fall by the wayside, but that’s true of all categories. And it’s perfectly common for brands to rotate out their poorest performing products, especially in traditional grocery where there’s a finite amount of shelf space. It’s a little different for online retailers.
The cost of living crisis is almost certainly going to play a part in how people satisfy their vegan diets too. Historically brands in this space have tended to position themselves as premium offerings, more out of necessity due to lower rates of sale and scale and ultimately higher production costs. A cost of living crisis doesn’t benefit those brands as customers tend to trade down into cheaper alternatives. Another factor is that supermarket own brand plant based offerings are much better than they’ve ever been, and these tend to be what people trade into in times of hardship. Tesco for example have absolutely killed it with Wicked Kitchen. Ask Derek Sarno if the plant based bubble is dying and I imagine you’ll get a different answer. |
Having just had a quick look at their product list I would suggest that creating a society where people have time to cook might be a healthier more sustainable alternative. | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 20:13 - May 21 with 2433 views | HARRY10 |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 19:41 - May 21 by clive_baker |
That’s definitely not the reality, or is certainly misleading. The ‘vegan bubble bursting’ implies a decline in demand and the amount of people adopting a vegan lifestyle, which the stats don’t support. The article then conveniently ignores any actual trends around veganism (which is way broader than just diet anyway) and talks solely about branded plant based food, citing some examples of products being delisted, which isn’t reasonable support of their implication. I would ask what is going in their place? They’re largely replaced with other plant based offerings. The shelf space dedicated to plant based has never been bigger in UK grocery. There are a lot of crap, rushed to market products in the category and inevitably they won’t all have stickability, some will fall by the wayside, but that’s true of all categories. And it’s perfectly common for brands to rotate out their poorest performing products, especially in traditional grocery where there’s a finite amount of shelf space. It’s a little different for online retailers.
The cost of living crisis is almost certainly going to play a part in how people satisfy their vegan diets too. Historically brands in this space have tended to position themselves as premium offerings, more out of necessity due to lower rates of sale and scale and ultimately higher production costs. A cost of living crisis doesn’t benefit those brands as customers tend to trade down into cheaper alternatives. Another factor is that supermarket own brand plant based offerings are much better than they’ve ever been, and these tend to be what people trade into in times of hardship. Tesco for example have absolutely killed it with Wicked Kitchen. Ask Derek Sarno if the plant based bubble is dying and I imagine you’ll get a different answer. |
You seem to have completely missed the point of the article.
It IS NOT saying that a move away from meat eating is in decline, just that the non meat products have reached peaked sales and are currently falling back. Just as beer sales in pubs are falling, does not mean overall beer consumption is falling.
A lot of newbie vegans who in many cases hopped on the bandwagon did so under the mistaken belief that you could still eat the same food only it would not contain meat. Hence, absurd Frankenstein creations such as 'veggie bacon'.
As much as we are now aware of the health risks of smoking, and it is slowly dying out (no pun) so we will become more aware of the health risks of certain foods. The talk now is obesity being the biggest threat to the NHS ie thhe cost in treatment. Though there it is a matter of volume not type.
Perhaps meat will begin to be taxed, rising to the levels of tobacco tax as now. If so, undoubtedly it will be put out it is for health reasons as was the smoking ban in various public places. Whereas the simple truth was to remove the possibility of class action insurance claims... liability.
Otherwise why not simply ban tobacco.
With taxation on food (sugar) it will be as a result of the rising cost of treatment, not necessarily personal health concerns. | | | |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:03 - May 22 with 2328 views | KrakenBlue |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 18:55 - May 21 by HARRY10 |
No, certainly not. Though there is now a move towards recycling by some councils. You cannot put them in your recycling bin. |
I think that's council dependent. I have been putting them in with my cardboard for years at the request of my council.
They aren't recyclable or your council doesn't recycle them are two different issues | | | |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:18 - May 22 with 2288 views | DJR |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:03 - May 22 by KrakenBlue |
I think that's council dependent. I have been putting them in with my cardboard for years at the request of my council.
They aren't recyclable or your council doesn't recycle them are two different issues |
That was implicit in my post which gave rise to this discussion because I said they are recyclable in Spain.
I hadn't realised there are local authorities in the country which do recycle them because they certainly don't where I live or my mother used to live.
The danger however with all recycling is that it will ended up dumped somewhere in the Third World.
Much better the age in which I was growing up when there was proper recycling with glass milk and pop bottles re-used. [Post edited 22 May 2023 10:18]
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:35 - May 22 with 2262 views | Ryorry |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:55 - May 21 by DJR |
If nothing else, the Tetra Paks that non-dairy milk is sold in are not even recyclable in this country, although they are in Spain. |
My council accepts them. |  |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:39 - May 22 with 2232 views | clive_baker |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 20:13 - May 21 by HARRY10 |
You seem to have completely missed the point of the article.
It IS NOT saying that a move away from meat eating is in decline, just that the non meat products have reached peaked sales and are currently falling back. Just as beer sales in pubs are falling, does not mean overall beer consumption is falling.
A lot of newbie vegans who in many cases hopped on the bandwagon did so under the mistaken belief that you could still eat the same food only it would not contain meat. Hence, absurd Frankenstein creations such as 'veggie bacon'.
As much as we are now aware of the health risks of smoking, and it is slowly dying out (no pun) so we will become more aware of the health risks of certain foods. The talk now is obesity being the biggest threat to the NHS ie thhe cost in treatment. Though there it is a matter of volume not type.
Perhaps meat will begin to be taxed, rising to the levels of tobacco tax as now. If so, undoubtedly it will be put out it is for health reasons as was the smoking ban in various public places. Whereas the simple truth was to remove the possibility of class action insurance claims... liability.
Otherwise why not simply ban tobacco.
With taxation on food (sugar) it will be as a result of the rising cost of treatment, not necessarily personal health concerns. |
Some plant based products, inevitably, while others continue to see growth that is unrivalled by any other category. That was kind of my point. The article title is misleading if its implication is that veganism as a trend is a 'burst bubble'. The article concedes 'the sales of vegan products are expected to rise over the long term'.
The 'vegan bubble' hasn't burst, it's just an increasingly competitive category, but that's because it's still in its infancy and has developed very quickly from a low base. It's a category that every man and their dog has wanted a piece of over the last 10 years (and still do) as it's been viewed as such a high growth opportunity. It's inevitable that some products won't stick. I'm close to the industry and have worked with numerous players in this space who continue to see incredible growth.
Faux meat has always been an odd one for me in terms of the proposition. Lab created plant based steaks that 'still bleed like beef' is just weird, and a lot of them taste awful. That said, there's still some real winners in that space and some interesting innovation. Not sure the reference to Beyond Meat's share price is of much relevance either, it's still a loss making business with a valuation of 700m. It's just come down from a ridiculous valuation that was never justifiable. | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:44 - May 22 with 2224 views | J2BLUE |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:39 - May 22 by clive_baker |
Some plant based products, inevitably, while others continue to see growth that is unrivalled by any other category. That was kind of my point. The article title is misleading if its implication is that veganism as a trend is a 'burst bubble'. The article concedes 'the sales of vegan products are expected to rise over the long term'.
The 'vegan bubble' hasn't burst, it's just an increasingly competitive category, but that's because it's still in its infancy and has developed very quickly from a low base. It's a category that every man and their dog has wanted a piece of over the last 10 years (and still do) as it's been viewed as such a high growth opportunity. It's inevitable that some products won't stick. I'm close to the industry and have worked with numerous players in this space who continue to see incredible growth.
Faux meat has always been an odd one for me in terms of the proposition. Lab created plant based steaks that 'still bleed like beef' is just weird, and a lot of them taste awful. That said, there's still some real winners in that space and some interesting innovation. Not sure the reference to Beyond Meat's share price is of much relevance either, it's still a loss making business with a valuation of 700m. It's just come down from a ridiculous valuation that was never justifiable. |
Spot on. It's no wonder that Oatly's ice cream has been discontinued when there have been a ridiculous number of vegan ice creams launched in recent years. We will see many products discontinued as the big players move into the vegan market and there simply isn't the demand to sustain 100 different vegan ice creams. |  |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:45 - May 22 with 2222 views | Dubtractor |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:03 - May 22 by KrakenBlue |
I think that's council dependent. I have been putting them in with my cardboard for years at the request of my council.
They aren't recyclable or your council doesn't recycle them are two different issues |
Tetra Pak is technically recyclable, but there is only one facility that can do so in the whole UK, and it doesn't have nearly the capacity to take all the tetra pak in the UK! And even that facility doesn't recycle all of the actual product.
From a recycling point of view it is a terrible product, 3 separate materials, combined in a way that makes it almost impossible to separate. It is very good for food storage, and is a lightweight package, so is good from that perspective.
Cold truth of the matter, is that if they are collected with cardboard, they probably just end up as reject material at the plant where cardboard is recycled. |  |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:46 - May 22 with 2215 views | Ryorry |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 16:29 - May 20 by J2BLUE |
Clearly not.
A few companies have pulled products where there are loads of alternatives? Big deal. New vegan products are being launched daily. That article is complete garbage. |
Agree. Unusually poor article from the Gruadian, very misleading headline. They even say themselves that “the sales of vegan products are expected to rise over the long term”. | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:51 - May 22 with 2197 views | baxterbasics |
As I peruse the meat and dairy isles at the local supermarche I do find myself wondering how there can possibly be that much demand for all the fakes. Whenever I've tried any of these alternatives it's always been a poor imitation.
As far as I'm concerned, the place for 'plant based' food is the fresh fruit and veg aisle.
If we get to the point where a lab-grown steak is available and indistinguishable from the real thing and no more expensive I will happily give it a try. |  |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:52 - May 22 with 2192 views | Ryorry |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:05 - May 21 by DJR |
If I were a vegan, I would stick to healthy things like pulses, vegetables, nuts, which are not necessarily expensive, and when it comes to oat milk, there is this very cheap alternative to the manufactured versions.
https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/the-health-hub/food-drink/recipes/how-to-make-
I might add that some of the best food I have ever tasted was in a vegan/vegetarian restaurant in Greenwich about 30 odd years ago.
The problem is that it takes some time to produce food of that quality. |
Quite, and thanks for the recipe which I’ll try, as I haven’t yet found a commercial brand that I don’t find awful! (think I’ve tried all available). | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:24 - May 22 with 2144 views | J2BLUE |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:51 - May 22 by baxterbasics |
As I peruse the meat and dairy isles at the local supermarche I do find myself wondering how there can possibly be that much demand for all the fakes. Whenever I've tried any of these alternatives it's always been a poor imitation.
As far as I'm concerned, the place for 'plant based' food is the fresh fruit and veg aisle.
If we get to the point where a lab-grown steak is available and indistinguishable from the real thing and no more expensive I will happily give it a try. |
People have different tastes.
I always think people find one good alternative for everything. Anyone on here who eats vegan food regularly could provide a similar list and I doubt any two would be the same. Most of this stuff is used as an occasional treat rather than for every meal. Just like most people use the same foods containing animal products.
My freezer has 4-5 different vegan foods in. My cupboards also have beans, lentils, peas, chickpeas etc. | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:25 - May 22 with 2140 views | Ryorry |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 10:44 - May 22 by J2BLUE |
Spot on. It's no wonder that Oatly's ice cream has been discontinued when there have been a ridiculous number of vegan ice creams launched in recent years. We will see many products discontinued as the big players move into the vegan market and there simply isn't the demand to sustain 100 different vegan ice creams. |
I might get pelters for this, and I know it might sound weird, but Jude's Ice Cream for Dogs, which I used to give my old boy, is entirely vegetarian, and seems to consist of nothing more than fruit, fruit & veg juice, coconut oil and water. It looked and smelled absolutely delicious, and if I weren't allergic to the fruit & beet, I'd have tried it myself! Very expensive though.
https://www.ocado.com/products/jude-s-ice-cream-for-dogs-556268011?gclid=CjwKCAj
Ingredients: Water, Strawberry Puree (12%), Apple Juice from Concentrate (11%), Banana Puree (11%), Fructose, Coconut Oil, Pea Protein, Emulsifier (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids), Beetroot Juice Concentrate, Stabilisers (Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum) | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:27 - May 22 with 2135 views | J2BLUE |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:25 - May 22 by Ryorry |
I might get pelters for this, and I know it might sound weird, but Jude's Ice Cream for Dogs, which I used to give my old boy, is entirely vegetarian, and seems to consist of nothing more than fruit, fruit & veg juice, coconut oil and water. It looked and smelled absolutely delicious, and if I weren't allergic to the fruit & beet, I'd have tried it myself! Very expensive though.
https://www.ocado.com/products/jude-s-ice-cream-for-dogs-556268011?gclid=CjwKCAj
Ingredients: Water, Strawberry Puree (12%), Apple Juice from Concentrate (11%), Banana Puree (11%), Fructose, Coconut Oil, Pea Protein, Emulsifier (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids), Beetroot Juice Concentrate, Stabilisers (Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum) |
This reminds me of just before Christmas when I saw some biscuits on the end of an aisle and thought they look amazing. They were for dogs... | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:28 - May 22 with 2129 views | clive_baker |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:25 - May 22 by Ryorry |
I might get pelters for this, and I know it might sound weird, but Jude's Ice Cream for Dogs, which I used to give my old boy, is entirely vegetarian, and seems to consist of nothing more than fruit, fruit & veg juice, coconut oil and water. It looked and smelled absolutely delicious, and if I weren't allergic to the fruit & beet, I'd have tried it myself! Very expensive though.
https://www.ocado.com/products/jude-s-ice-cream-for-dogs-556268011?gclid=CjwKCAj
Ingredients: Water, Strawberry Puree (12%), Apple Juice from Concentrate (11%), Banana Puree (11%), Fructose, Coconut Oil, Pea Protein, Emulsifier (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids), Beetroot Juice Concentrate, Stabilisers (Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum) |
Would go lovely with a Bonio stuck in the top. | |
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| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:50 - May 22 with 2086 views | Mookamoo |
| The vegan bubble has burst. on 11:25 - May 22 by Ryorry |
I might get pelters for this, and I know it might sound weird, but Jude's Ice Cream for Dogs, which I used to give my old boy, is entirely vegetarian, and seems to consist of nothing more than fruit, fruit & veg juice, coconut oil and water. It looked and smelled absolutely delicious, and if I weren't allergic to the fruit & beet, I'd have tried it myself! Very expensive though.
https://www.ocado.com/products/jude-s-ice-cream-for-dogs-556268011?gclid=CjwKCAj
Ingredients: Water, Strawberry Puree (12%), Apple Juice from Concentrate (11%), Banana Puree (11%), Fructose, Coconut Oil, Pea Protein, Emulsifier (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids), Beetroot Juice Concentrate, Stabilisers (Locust Bean Gum, Guar Gum) |
Isn't all dog food passed for human consumption or is that a myth?
A tin of pedigree meaty chunks probably has better quality meat in that most own brand tins of meatballs. |  | | |
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