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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned 18:17 - Oct 16 with 6379 viewsWeWereZombies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67122609

Sort of glad that I have never responded to those requests that get splashed across the bottom of the article asking for money to keep journalism independent and free.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 with 4192 viewsMK1

Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:27 - Oct 16 with 4186 viewsredrickstuhaart

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 by MK1

Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate.


Satirical cartoons can always be appropriate. They shine a light on the absurdity of human stupidity and cruelty.
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:44 - Oct 16 with 4133 viewsIllinoisblue

Bell’s defence doesn’t sound overly convincing but still surprised they’ve sacked him.

62 - 78 - 81
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:44 - Oct 16 with 4130 viewsMK1

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:27 - Oct 16 by redrickstuhaart

Satirical cartoons can always be appropriate. They shine a light on the absurdity of human stupidity and cruelty.


Sorry, not a fan.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:48 - Oct 16 with 4123 viewsStokieBlue

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 by MK1

Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate.


The same argument wasn't made when cartoons of Boris were being banded about everywhere and people were dying in large number due to covid mismanagement.

As another poster has pointed out, sometimes the ridiculousness of the situation can only really be highlighted through something like a satirical cartoon.

SB
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:52 - Oct 16 with 4102 viewsDJR

For context, here is the Bell cartoon, and below that is the one it is based on, something he frequently does.

[Post edited 16 Oct 2023 18:54]
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 19:04 - Oct 16 with 4002 viewsCornette

And Adrian Chiles keeps his spot on the roster for just banging the editor!

The Guardian's booking is worse than AEW's.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 19:31 - Oct 16 with 3928 viewsNthsuffolkblue

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 by MK1

Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate.


The point of the cartoon is to draw attention and make you think. Why is it inappropriate to use drawings to do that? Why can only photographs and written prose do that or do you think they are inappropriate too?

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 with 3853 viewsWhos_blue

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:52 - Oct 16 by DJR

For context, here is the Bell cartoon, and below that is the one it is based on, something he frequently does.

[Post edited 16 Oct 2023 18:54]


I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too?

Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:07 - Oct 16 with 3835 viewsredrickstuhaart

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue

I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too?


Presumably shows a combination of a fighting attitude and a completely clumsy and dangerous lack of control in the "surgery" to be attempted.

Not at all convinced that there was any intent to make reference to "a pouund of flesh".

We are in dangerous territory when these things can be shut down and people fired because someone infers offence.
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:10 - Oct 16 with 3821 viewsWhos_blue

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:07 - Oct 16 by redrickstuhaart

Presumably shows a combination of a fighting attitude and a completely clumsy and dangerous lack of control in the "surgery" to be attempted.

Not at all convinced that there was any intent to make reference to "a pouund of flesh".

We are in dangerous territory when these things can be shut down and people fired because someone infers offence.


That was kind of my thoughts too.
It feels like someone has maybe seen something that isn't really there?

Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:13 - Oct 16 with 3813 viewsWeWereZombies

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue

I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too?


I guess the boxing gloves are to highlight, Bell's perception of anyway, Netanyahu's clumsiness in approach. I appreciate your point on the historical use of inappropriate Jewish caricatures in cartoons (often with regard to noses, so it is interesting to see that in the two cartoons it is LBJ who has the grossly accentuated one) but if the position is taken of never satirising Jewish politicians then you could say that this is blindsiding them and belittling their status. And as I type that I recall controversies in Denmark and France over cartoons...Je suis Steve Bell ?

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:20 - Oct 16 with 3758 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:07 - Oct 16 by redrickstuhaart

Presumably shows a combination of a fighting attitude and a completely clumsy and dangerous lack of control in the "surgery" to be attempted.

Not at all convinced that there was any intent to make reference to "a pouund of flesh".

We are in dangerous territory when these things can be shut down and people fired because someone infers offence.


Who could have seen that coming! The Right in Israel have been very emboldened of late haven’t they.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:23 - Oct 16 with 3756 viewsBloomBlue

Don't forget the Guardian published a cartoon a few months ago by Martin Rowson which they admitted (and apologised for) was antisemitic. In that situation they took a lot of flack about why didn't their editorial control prevent the cartoon being published in the Guardian.

It looks like in this situation their editorial control stopped it being published, but Bell decided to ignore that, and Guardian sacked him.
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:27 - Oct 16 with 3714 viewsWeWereZombies

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:20 - Oct 16 by BanksterDebtSlave

Who could have seen that coming! The Right in Israel have been very emboldened of late haven’t they.


Whilst it is true that extremists on the right in Israel have been more vociferous and more powerful over the last two decades at least (my Muslim friend who has studied there, at a Hebrew university, is completely dismissive of centre left Israeli politics and described the parties involved as very weak when we talked about moderating influences) I think we must remember that all Israelis are probably a combination of numbed and shocked into severe response at the moment.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:33 - Oct 16 with 3688 viewsDJR

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue

I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too?


Here's a bit more context. The article says the cartoon was also partly inspired Rembrandt’s The Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Deijman.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/nationals/guardian-steve-bell-cartoons-sac

https://www.rembrandtpaintings.com/the-anatomy-lesson-of-dr-joan-deyman.jsp
[Post edited 16 Oct 2023 20:44]
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:37 - Oct 16 with 3664 viewschicoazul

So the Guardian is bad this week eh lads.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:43 - Oct 16 with 3635 viewsDJR

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 19:04 - Oct 16 by Cornette

And Adrian Chiles keeps his spot on the roster for just banging the editor!

The Guardian's booking is worse than AEW's.


But he's such a good writer!
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:53 - Oct 16 with 3591 viewsredrickstuhaart

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:37 - Oct 16 by chicoazul

So the Guardian is bad this week eh lads.


Thank you for your incisive and nuanced contribution to a difficult issue.
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:57 - Oct 16 with 3583 viewsXYZ

They should have sacked him when he stopped being funny in around 1985.

This just looks like a nervous insecure over-reaction following their error over the Martin Rowson cartoon.
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 21:10 - Oct 16 with 3520 viewsDJR

It's real shame his cartoons will appear no more, although they have been less frequent recently because I think the Guardian wanted to ease him out.

I still think my favourite of his is this one from the 1992 election.

https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/leaders/1992/0133-11-4-92_WERULE

If you look closely you will see it says

We rule you
We fool you
We thicken you
We sicken you
We tax you
We sacks you
We are outrageous

But you vote for us
[Post edited 16 Oct 2023 21:25]
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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 21:17 - Oct 16 with 3481 viewsSwansea_Blue

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue

I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too?


I don’t see why cartoons should be shackled. As Nrthsuffolkblue says, it’s just another form of communication. No different to radio reports, TV coverage, the written press, YouTube videos, etc.

I’ve no idea if that’s antisemitism though, so I’m keeping out of that part of it. Seems tenuous, but I’ve no idea.

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 21:34 - Oct 16 with 3396 viewsDarth_Koont

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:13 - Oct 16 by WeWereZombies

I guess the boxing gloves are to highlight, Bell's perception of anyway, Netanyahu's clumsiness in approach. I appreciate your point on the historical use of inappropriate Jewish caricatures in cartoons (often with regard to noses, so it is interesting to see that in the two cartoons it is LBJ who has the grossly accentuated one) but if the position is taken of never satirising Jewish politicians then you could say that this is blindsiding them and belittling their status. And as I type that I recall controversies in Denmark and France over cartoons...Je suis Steve Bell ?


Well said.

Je suis Steve Bell moi aussi.

Pronouns: He/Him

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 07:01 - Oct 17 with 3086 viewsElephantintheRoom

He was on a final warning was he not, having had another not very funny and contentious cartoon pulled in recent weeks

Perhaps they’ve decided to go for a more amusing cartoonists with a more juvenile sense of humour to suit their readershio

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I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 07:54 - Oct 17 with 3023 viewsSteve_M

I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:23 - Oct 16 by BloomBlue

Don't forget the Guardian published a cartoon a few months ago by Martin Rowson which they admitted (and apologised for) was antisemitic. In that situation they took a lot of flack about why didn't their editorial control prevent the cartoon being published in the Guardian.

It looks like in this situation their editorial control stopped it being published, but Bell decided to ignore that, and Guardian sacked him.


Rowson at least thought deeply about why his cartoon had caused such offence and has subsequently made a genuine apology.

Bell has just doubled down, denying any antisemitism. As pointed out elsewhere on this thread this isn't the first example from him recently.

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