| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned 18:17 - Oct 16 with 6397 views | WeWereZombies |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67122609
Sort of glad that I have never responded to those requests that get splashed across the bottom of the article asking for money to keep journalism independent and free. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 with 4205 views | MK1 |
Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:27 - Oct 16 with 4199 views | redrickstuhaart |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 by MK1 |
Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate. |
Satirical cartoons can always be appropriate. They shine a light on the absurdity of human stupidity and cruelty. |  | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:44 - Oct 16 with 4146 views | Illinoisblue |
Bell’s defence doesn’t sound overly convincing but still surprised they’ve sacked him. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:44 - Oct 16 with 4143 views | MK1 |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:27 - Oct 16 by redrickstuhaart |
Satirical cartoons can always be appropriate. They shine a light on the absurdity of human stupidity and cruelty. |
Sorry, not a fan. | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:48 - Oct 16 with 4136 views | StokieBlue |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 by MK1 |
Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate. |
The same argument wasn't made when cartoons of Boris were being banded about everywhere and people were dying in large number due to covid mismanagement.
As another poster has pointed out, sometimes the ridiculousness of the situation can only really be highlighted through something like a satirical cartoon.
SB |  | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:52 - Oct 16 with 4115 views | DJR |
For context, here is the Bell cartoon, and below that is the one it is based on, something he frequently does.
[Post edited 16 Oct 2023 18:54]
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 19:04 - Oct 16 with 4015 views | Cornette |
And Adrian Chiles keeps his spot on the roster for just banging the editor!
The Guardian's booking is worse than AEW's. |  |
| It's triple cheese, extra cheese, mayo, pickles, onions ONLY, large fry, with a Sprite, you dumb bitch! |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 19:31 - Oct 16 with 3941 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:25 - Oct 16 by MK1 |
Men, Women and Children being killed. Not sure any cartoon is appropriate. |
The point of the cartoon is to draw attention and make you think. Why is it inappropriate to use drawings to do that? Why can only photographs and written prose do that or do you think they are inappropriate too? |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 with 3866 views | Whos_blue |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:52 - Oct 16 by DJR |
For context, here is the Bell cartoon, and below that is the one it is based on, something he frequently does.
[Post edited 16 Oct 2023 18:54]
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I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too? |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:07 - Oct 16 with 3848 views | redrickstuhaart |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue |
I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too? |
Presumably shows a combination of a fighting attitude and a completely clumsy and dangerous lack of control in the "surgery" to be attempted.
Not at all convinced that there was any intent to make reference to "a pouund of flesh".
We are in dangerous territory when these things can be shut down and people fired because someone infers offence. | | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:10 - Oct 16 with 3834 views | Whos_blue |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:07 - Oct 16 by redrickstuhaart |
Presumably shows a combination of a fighting attitude and a completely clumsy and dangerous lack of control in the "surgery" to be attempted.
Not at all convinced that there was any intent to make reference to "a pouund of flesh".
We are in dangerous territory when these things can be shut down and people fired because someone infers offence. |
That was kind of my thoughts too.
It feels like someone has maybe seen something that isn't really there?
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| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:13 - Oct 16 with 3826 views | WeWereZombies |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue |
I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too? |
I guess the boxing gloves are to highlight, Bell's perception of anyway, Netanyahu's clumsiness in approach. I appreciate your point on the historical use of inappropriate Jewish caricatures in cartoons (often with regard to noses, so it is interesting to see that in the two cartoons it is LBJ who has the grossly accentuated one) but if the position is taken of never satirising Jewish politicians then you could say that this is blindsiding them and belittling their status. And as I type that I recall controversies in Denmark and France over cartoons...Je suis Steve Bell ? | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:20 - Oct 16 with 3771 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:07 - Oct 16 by redrickstuhaart |
Presumably shows a combination of a fighting attitude and a completely clumsy and dangerous lack of control in the "surgery" to be attempted.
Not at all convinced that there was any intent to make reference to "a pouund of flesh".
We are in dangerous territory when these things can be shut down and people fired because someone infers offence. |
Who could have seen that coming! The Right in Israel have been very emboldened of late haven’t they. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:23 - Oct 16 with 3769 views | BloomBlue |
Don't forget the Guardian published a cartoon a few months ago by Martin Rowson which they admitted (and apologised for) was antisemitic. In that situation they took a lot of flack about why didn't their editorial control prevent the cartoon being published in the Guardian.
It looks like in this situation their editorial control stopped it being published, but Bell decided to ignore that, and Guardian sacked him. |  | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:27 - Oct 16 with 3727 views | WeWereZombies |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:20 - Oct 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Who could have seen that coming! The Right in Israel have been very emboldened of late haven’t they. |
Whilst it is true that extremists on the right in Israel have been more vociferous and more powerful over the last two decades at least (my Muslim friend who has studied there, at a Hebrew university, is completely dismissive of centre left Israeli politics and described the parties involved as very weak when we talked about moderating influences) I think we must remember that all Israelis are probably a combination of numbed and shocked into severe response at the moment. | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:33 - Oct 16 with 3701 views | DJR |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue |
I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too? |
Here's a bit more context. The article says the cartoon was also partly inspired Rembrandt’s The Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Deijman.
https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/nationals/guardian-steve-bell-cartoons-sac
https://www.rembrandtpaintings.com/the-anatomy-lesson-of-dr-joan-deyman.jsp [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 20:44]
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:37 - Oct 16 with 3677 views | chicoazul |
So the Guardian is bad this week eh lads. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:43 - Oct 16 with 3648 views | DJR |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 19:04 - Oct 16 by Cornette |
And Adrian Chiles keeps his spot on the roster for just banging the editor!
The Guardian's booking is worse than AEW's. |
But he's such a good writer! | | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:53 - Oct 16 with 3604 views | redrickstuhaart |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:37 - Oct 16 by chicoazul |
So the Guardian is bad this week eh lads. |
Thank you for your incisive and nuanced contribution to a difficult issue. | | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:57 - Oct 16 with 3596 views | XYZ |
They should have sacked him when he stopped being funny in around 1985.
This just looks like a nervous insecure over-reaction following their error over the Martin Rowson cartoon. | | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 21:10 - Oct 16 with 3533 views | DJR |
It's real shame his cartoons will appear no more, although they have been less frequent recently because I think the Guardian wanted to ease him out.
I still think my favourite of his is this one from the 1992 election.
https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/leaders/1992/0133-11-4-92_WERULE
If you look closely you will see it says
We rule you
We fool you
We thicken you
We sicken you
We tax you
We sacks you
We are outrageous
But you vote for us [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 21:25]
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 21:17 - Oct 16 with 3494 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:03 - Oct 16 by Whos_blue |
I read the news report but didn’t completely understand the issue, so posting the cartoon is helpful.
Whilst I agree that satire can be incredibly powerful, with everyone on heightened senses at the moment I wonder if Bell might have thought twice before releasing his art.
My own lack of detailed knowledge of historical subtle (or not so subtle) antisemitic art (which cartoon has been called out on) leaves me confused about how I feel about this. It will be good to hear from others why it may or may not be antisemitic.
I can see the parody of the other piece of art but can anyone also enlighten me regarding the boxing gloves too? |
I don’t see why cartoons should be shackled. As Nrthsuffolkblue says, it’s just another form of communication. No different to radio reports, TV coverage, the written press, YouTube videos, etc.
I’ve no idea if that’s antisemitism though, so I’m keeping out of that part of it. Seems tenuous, but I’ve no idea. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 21:34 - Oct 16 with 3409 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:13 - Oct 16 by WeWereZombies |
I guess the boxing gloves are to highlight, Bell's perception of anyway, Netanyahu's clumsiness in approach. I appreciate your point on the historical use of inappropriate Jewish caricatures in cartoons (often with regard to noses, so it is interesting to see that in the two cartoons it is LBJ who has the grossly accentuated one) but if the position is taken of never satirising Jewish politicians then you could say that this is blindsiding them and belittling their status. And as I type that I recall controversies in Denmark and France over cartoons...Je suis Steve Bell ? |
Well said.
Je suis Steve Bell moi aussi. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 07:01 - Oct 17 with 3099 views | ElephantintheRoom |
He was on a final warning was he not, having had another not very funny and contentious cartoon pulled in recent weeks
Perhaps they’ve decided to go for a more amusing cartoonists with a more juvenile sense of humour to suit their readershio | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 07:54 - Oct 17 with 3036 views | Steve_M |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:23 - Oct 16 by BloomBlue |
Don't forget the Guardian published a cartoon a few months ago by Martin Rowson which they admitted (and apologised for) was antisemitic. In that situation they took a lot of flack about why didn't their editorial control prevent the cartoon being published in the Guardian.
It looks like in this situation their editorial control stopped it being published, but Bell decided to ignore that, and Guardian sacked him. |
Rowson at least thought deeply about why his cartoon had caused such offence and has subsequently made a genuine apology.
Bell has just doubled down, denying any antisemitism. As pointed out elsewhere on this thread this isn't the first example from him recently. |  |
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