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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 257377 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:40 - Nov 29 with 2971 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:37 - Nov 29 by DJR

No criticism inferred.

I especially thought it strange that I have not heard this point being raised by anyone, anywhere.
[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 12:43]


Do you mean, who stops the bully in the playground?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:17 - Nov 29 with 2914 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:40 - Nov 29 by eireblue

Do you mean, who stops the bully in the playground?


I am not sure what point you are making.

The point I was making is that, given it is accepted that the 7 October attack was a war crime and that there had been talk of Israel's actions breaching international law by, say, amounting to collective punishment, I was surprised not to have heard article 49(3) of the Fourth Geneva Convention on civilians being invoked.

As it is, I studied Public International Law (which covered this whole area) some forty odd years ago as part of my law degree, so have an interest in international law, although I must admit I have rather forgotten what I learned.

EDIT: Interestingly, article 49(6) of the Convention, as well as other provisions, are relevant to settlements in the West Bank, as the following makes clear.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2019/01/chapter-3-israeli-settlement
[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 16:38]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:13 - Nov 29 with 2827 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:44 - Nov 28 by GlasgowBlue

No negotiations with Hamas. Other Palestinian Authorities are available.

Life would be a damn sight better for the Palestinian people if Hamas were wiped out. This may come as a surprise to some, but Hamas don't give a fcuk about ordinary Palestians. They don't give a fcuk about a two state solution. They just want to kill every single Jew in the middle east. I'm not sure any Israeli official will ever negotiate that outcome.


Why do you think it clever to circumnavigate the swear filter on here?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:17 - Nov 29 with 2792 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:13 - Nov 29 by Nthsuffolkblue

Why do you think it clever to circumnavigate the swear filter on here?


What a very odd reply.

I point out that Hamas want to exterminate 9 million Jews and care nothing for the lives of the 2 million Palestinians that they use as human shields in Gaza, and the one thing you take offence at in that post is my use of industrial language.
Have you ever thought that you may have your priorities wrong?
[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 17:22]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:21 - Nov 29 with 2779 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 10:10 - Nov 29 by StokieBlue

We need some realism here though, this is a genuine question as I don't know but which other authority do you think could push through some negotiations?

SB



[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 10:40]


It's the same as Thatcher's "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and Sinn Fein were seen as the same as the IRA.

It matters little who the individuals are that speak face-to-face as long as the message is accepted by those with the arms. Ultimately, all parties have to be prepared to talk for there to be peace.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:22 - Nov 29 with 2772 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:17 - Nov 29 by GlasgowBlue

What a very odd reply.

I point out that Hamas want to exterminate 9 million Jews and care nothing for the lives of the 2 million Palestinians that they use as human shields in Gaza, and the one thing you take offence at in that post is my use of industrial language.
Have you ever thought that you may have your priorities wrong?
[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 17:22]


You may find it odd.

I find your constant use of the F word on this forum offensive.

EDIT to address your disingenuous edit. We have a whole thread of answering your point. If I had complained on your first use of the f word without addressing your point repeatedly over two threads and 40+ pages, you might have a point. But you don't.
[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 17:46]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:26 - Nov 29 with 2740 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:21 - Nov 29 by Nthsuffolkblue

It's the same as Thatcher's "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and Sinn Fein were seen as the same as the IRA.

It matters little who the individuals are that speak face-to-face as long as the message is accepted by those with the arms. Ultimately, all parties have to be prepared to talk for there to be peace.


Those saying Israel won't negotiate with Hamas are forgetting that that's exactly what they're doing right now. That's why hostages and 'prisoners' are being handed over.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:28 - Nov 29 with 2720 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:22 - Nov 29 by Nthsuffolkblue

You may find it odd.

I find your constant use of the F word on this forum offensive.

EDIT to address your disingenuous edit. We have a whole thread of answering your point. If I had complained on your first use of the f word without addressing your point repeatedly over two threads and 40+ pages, you might have a point. But you don't.
[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 17:46]


And I find your constant suggestion that negotiating with the rapist death cult Hamas, whose ultimate aim is the extermination of 9 million Jews in the middle East, is in any way comparable with the UK government negotiating with the IRA, whose ultimate aim was a united Ireland.

But there you go. Some people get offended about different issues.

Iron Lion Zion
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:34 - Nov 29 with 2706 viewslowhouseblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:28 - Nov 29 by GlasgowBlue

And I find your constant suggestion that negotiating with the rapist death cult Hamas, whose ultimate aim is the extermination of 9 million Jews in the middle East, is in any way comparable with the UK government negotiating with the IRA, whose ultimate aim was a united Ireland.

But there you go. Some people get offended about different issues.


there seems to be an assumption that hamas doesn't really mean these things. fundamentally, beneath the rather show-offy jargon, they're the sorts of chaps one should be able to do business with.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:37 - Nov 29 with 2673 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:28 - Nov 29 by GlasgowBlue

And I find your constant suggestion that negotiating with the rapist death cult Hamas, whose ultimate aim is the extermination of 9 million Jews in the middle East, is in any way comparable with the UK government negotiating with the IRA, whose ultimate aim was a united Ireland.

But there you go. Some people get offended about different issues.


by using nail bombs in London.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:38 - Nov 29 with 2666 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:34 - Nov 29 by lowhouseblue

there seems to be an assumption that hamas doesn't really mean these things. fundamentally, beneath the rather show-offy jargon, they're the sorts of chaps one should be able to do business with.


What a ridiculous comment.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:40 - Nov 29 with 2644 viewslowhouseblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:38 - Nov 29 by Nthsuffolkblue

What a ridiculous comment.


but you think israel can negotiate with them just like gerry adams? and that's not ridiculous?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:44 - Nov 29 with 2608 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:40 - Nov 29 by lowhouseblue

but you think israel can negotiate with them just like gerry adams? and that's not ridiculous?


You 100% would have said it was ridiculous to negotiate with Gerry Adams when Thatcher was saying "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

Negotiation may not work, but to fail to even consider it is ridiculous.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:51 - Nov 29 with 2582 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:44 - Nov 29 by Nthsuffolkblue

You 100% would have said it was ridiculous to negotiate with Gerry Adams when Thatcher was saying "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

Negotiation may not work, but to fail to even consider it is ridiculous.


"You 100% would have said it was ridiculous to negotiate with Gerry Adams when Thatcher was saying "we don't negotiate with terrorists"."

Indeed. As I remember its, that was the general feeling in Britain.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:53 - Nov 29 with 2568 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:40 - Nov 29 by lowhouseblue

but you think israel can negotiate with them just like gerry adams? and that's not ridiculous?


If you're assuming that Netanyahu et al are capable of negotiation then so are Hamas. And they've both shown that they can negotiate around the hostage/prisoner release and ceasefire.

Are either trusted partners for peace? Absolutely not.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:53 - Nov 29 with 2564 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:51 - Nov 29 by noggin

"You 100% would have said it was ridiculous to negotiate with Gerry Adams when Thatcher was saying "we don't negotiate with terrorists"."

Indeed. As I remember its, that was the general feeling in Britain.


It was. It was a popular soundbite and one I wholeheartedly supported at the time. However, it was wrong.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:59 - Nov 29 with 2520 viewslowhouseblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:53 - Nov 29 by Darth_Koont

If you're assuming that Netanyahu et al are capable of negotiation then so are Hamas. And they've both shown that they can negotiate around the hostage/prisoner release and ceasefire.

Are either trusted partners for peace? Absolutely not.


again, your entirely false equivalence between israel and hamas is disgusting. you're just pushing your slimey agenda.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:01 - Nov 29 with 2513 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:53 - Nov 29 by Nthsuffolkblue

It was. It was a popular soundbite and one I wholeheartedly supported at the time. However, it was wrong.


The related ban on hearing Sinn Fein members speaking brings to mind this brilliant skit from the Day Today.

[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 18:03]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:04 - Nov 29 with 2486 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:53 - Nov 29 by Nthsuffolkblue

It was. It was a popular soundbite and one I wholeheartedly supported at the time. However, it was wrong.


Fair play.

I was wrong about South Africa back in the early 80s as I swallowed the line re: ANC terrorists, necklacing and the notion that the whites would be massacred.

But I was a young boy worried about his South African cousins and who didn't realise the UK government and newspapers could spin narratives to serve narrow and selfish interests.

It was a formative experience. And it hurts to still see it happening time and time again. They even did it to our own people over Hillsborough so it's not even in "our" interests.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:08 - Nov 29 with 2447 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:59 - Nov 29 by lowhouseblue

again, your entirely false equivalence between israel and hamas is disgusting. you're just pushing your slimey agenda.


And your willingness to support and cover for state extremists in their genocidal attack is a rather more sinister agenda.

I defend people, you defend power.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:23 - Nov 29 with 2325 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 10:10 - Nov 29 by StokieBlue

We need some realism here though, this is a genuine question as I don't know but which other authority do you think could push through some negotiations?

SB



[Post edited 29 Nov 2023 10:40]


It depends on what is trying to be negotiated.

If it is some peace and stability, whilst maintaining the status quo, the Israeli should do everything within it's power to prop up Fatah in Gaza once Hamas are out of the way.

But why would Fatah, or anyone from the PA deal with Netanyahu and his coalition of ultra religious zealots. They aren't honest brokers.

Besides which, Abbas and the Fatah leadership are old, weak and don't have the support of the Palestinian people.

In an ideal world, we will reach the stage where Netanyahu and Ben Gvir take the fall for terrible lapse in security on October 7th, and a new government is selected. Probably too much to ask for as moderate party to win as Israel is in siege mode. We saw this in 1996 when Peres lost the election when a two state solution was as close as it has ever been, then Hamas launched a series of suicide attacks and handed the election to Netanyahu. A sliding doors moment. Well done Hamas. Screwed the Palestinian pole over again.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:25 - Nov 29 with 2315 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:08 - Nov 29 by Darth_Koont

And your willingness to support and cover for state extremists in their genocidal attack is a rather more sinister agenda.

I defend people, you defend power.


Like the rest of us, you're a bloke on a football message board spouting your opinions. You're not fcuking Ghandi or Nelson Mandela.

"I defend people, you defend power". What a load of sanctimonious bollox.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:00 - Nov 30 with 2119 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Back on topic, pretty much reflects by view that destroying Hamas military is a futile exercise:-

“Hamas still has perhaps three-quarters of its military strength and says it wants more attacks, cheered on by Iran.”

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/29/how-america-should-manage-the-next-

15,000 casualties and barely a scratch. They are hidden away in the South of Gaza, so unless the IDF extends their campaign, they will remain in hiding. Moving into the densely populated South would be catastrophic to civilians. Peace talks are the only way with both sets of extremists sidelined. However, that seems incredibly unlikely given both sides fanaticism. It looks increasingly likely we’ll end up with the status quo.
[Post edited 30 Nov 2023 8:06]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:58 - Nov 30 with 2052 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:00 - Nov 30 by SuperKieranMcKenna

Back on topic, pretty much reflects by view that destroying Hamas military is a futile exercise:-

“Hamas still has perhaps three-quarters of its military strength and says it wants more attacks, cheered on by Iran.”

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/29/how-america-should-manage-the-next-

15,000 casualties and barely a scratch. They are hidden away in the South of Gaza, so unless the IDF extends their campaign, they will remain in hiding. Moving into the densely populated South would be catastrophic to civilians. Peace talks are the only way with both sets of extremists sidelined. However, that seems incredibly unlikely given both sides fanaticism. It looks increasingly likely we’ll end up with the status quo.
[Post edited 30 Nov 2023 8:06]


The only viable outcome from this conflict is a two state solution. But the main protagonists are doing everything in the power to stop this ever happening.

Other people are suggesting a one state solution. But a one state solution means three things to the three different parties involved.

Iron Lion Zion
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 10:00 - Nov 30 with 2040 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:00 - Nov 30 by SuperKieranMcKenna

Back on topic, pretty much reflects by view that destroying Hamas military is a futile exercise:-

“Hamas still has perhaps three-quarters of its military strength and says it wants more attacks, cheered on by Iran.”

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/29/how-america-should-manage-the-next-

15,000 casualties and barely a scratch. They are hidden away in the South of Gaza, so unless the IDF extends their campaign, they will remain in hiding. Moving into the densely populated South would be catastrophic to civilians. Peace talks are the only way with both sets of extremists sidelined. However, that seems incredibly unlikely given both sides fanaticism. It looks increasingly likely we’ll end up with the status quo.
[Post edited 30 Nov 2023 8:06]


The only viable outcome from this conflict is a two state solution. But the main protagonists are doing everything in the power to stop this ever happening.

Other people are suggesting a one state solution. But a one state solution means three things to the three different parties involved.

edit. 4 parties involved, if you include some people in the west advocating a one state solution, as if all the factions involved will come together like they did in South Africa. Which imo, is pie in the sky.
[Post edited 30 Nov 2023 10:00]

Iron Lion Zion
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