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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 296472 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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Does this sound as bad in Hebrew as it does in English ? on 21:27 - Apr 9 with 1620 viewsredrickstuhaart

Does this sound as bad in Hebrew as it does in English ? on 17:31 - Apr 9 by phillymark

"You say you can't comment on individual actions yet you've continually commented on individual actions and looked to excuse them at every turn"
Show me where I've done that. Should be easy since I've done it "continually"

"All the evidence does show it's a vengeful assault with no thought about minimising causalities". Nope. Why hasn't Israel carpet bombed then?

What is the definition of "proportionate"? I would love to know. Was Britain "proportionate" in Germany in 1939-45? Was 10/7 "proportionate"? The word gets thrown around so much, just asking for a definition. Shouldn't be hard.



Do you want 2 states? Or Israel wiped out?


Was Britain proportionate? Mostly, but not always.

But such a dishonest false equivalence is breathtaking. An invading nation, already occupying large parts of Europe. And we didn't occupy and starve them in response. So its not even a relevant comparison is it?
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Does this sound as bad in Hebrew as it does in English ? on 01:31 - Apr 10 with 1576 viewsStokieBlue

Does this sound as bad in Hebrew as it does in English ? on 17:31 - Apr 9 by phillymark

"You say you can't comment on individual actions yet you've continually commented on individual actions and looked to excuse them at every turn"
Show me where I've done that. Should be easy since I've done it "continually"

"All the evidence does show it's a vengeful assault with no thought about minimising causalities". Nope. Why hasn't Israel carpet bombed then?

What is the definition of "proportionate"? I would love to know. Was Britain "proportionate" in Germany in 1939-45? Was 10/7 "proportionate"? The word gets thrown around so much, just asking for a definition. Shouldn't be hard.



Do you want 2 states? Or Israel wiped out?


Another awful post where you've attempted to put words into my mouth and then once again not explained how it's a genocide.

You don't think the destruction of more than 50% of the buildings in the area is akin to the results of carpet bombing?

That's now the third time you've attempted to dispute the meaning of "proportionate"and the second time you've compared the situation to WW2 even though both those things have been explained to you.

Where have I ever implied or said I want it Israel wiped out? Utterly disgraceful.

SB

Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024

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Does this sound as bad in Hebrew as it does in English ? on 01:46 - Apr 10 with 1571 viewsColumba

Does this sound as bad in Hebrew as it does in English ? on 01:31 - Apr 10 by StokieBlue

Another awful post where you've attempted to put words into my mouth and then once again not explained how it's a genocide.

You don't think the destruction of more than 50% of the buildings in the area is akin to the results of carpet bombing?

That's now the third time you've attempted to dispute the meaning of "proportionate"and the second time you've compared the situation to WW2 even though both those things have been explained to you.

Where have I ever implied or said I want it Israel wiped out? Utterly disgraceful.

SB


There's certainly one person on this thread who sounds like they'd like to see a state wiped out, and it's not you. Awful.
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Could we see Palestine almost universally recognised by the end of the year ? on 12:32 - Apr 10 with 1457 viewsWeWereZombies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-68758678

'Australia's foreign minister has suggested the country could recognise Palestinian statehood, to increase momentum towards peace...Ms Wong's comments echo a speech by UK Foreign Secretary David Cameron earlier this year...About 140 countries recognise Palestinian statehood, but many including the US, the UK, Germany and Australia do not. The United Nations is this week set to consider granting Palestine - which is currently an "observer state" - full membership of the international body.'

Slow, slow progress but some progress in attitudes at least.

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Ceasefire ? What ceasefire ? (n/t) on 12:34 - Apr 12 with 1333 viewsWeWereZombies

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/12/israels-war-on-gaza-list-of-key-events-

'Palestinian health officials said late on Thursday that an Israeli air strike killed Rudwan Rudwan, the head of the police force in Jabalia camp in the northern Gaza Strip. The Palestinian group Hamas also said Rudwan was in charge of supervising the protection of aid truck convoys in northern Gaza areas.'

'At least one man has been shot dead and two injured in an Israeli raid in the occupied West Bank on Thursday.
Palestinian medical sources said the incident took place at the Far’a camp in the northern West Bank, as soldiers raided several homes and there were confrontations with several groups of young men. At least 142 Palestinians have been killed in the occupied West Bank since the start of the year.'
[Post edited 12 Apr 12:37]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:58 - Apr 17 with 1215 viewsDJR

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/17/revealed-israel-has-sped-up-settle
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:52 - Apr 18 with 1117 viewsDJR

Very powerful.

[Post edited 18 Apr 20:53]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:08 - Apr 18 with 1101 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:58 - Apr 17 by DJR

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/17/revealed-israel-has-sped-up-settle


Guess what....there will be no consequences.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:23 - Apr 18 with 1081 viewsDJR

Philippe Lazzarini, the commissioner general of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees (Unrwa), told the UN security council on Thursday that “Unrwa personnel detained by Israeli security forces” had “shared harrowing accounts of mistreatment and torture in detention”. Lazzarini demanded an independent investigation and “accountability for the blatant disregard for the protected status of humanitarian workers, operations, and facilities under international law.”

Lazzarini also told the UN security council that Unrwa is “under enormous strain” and said that “an insidious campaign to end Unrwa’s operations is under way”. He said calls for the UN agency’s closure are “not about adherence to humanitarian principles”. Instead, he said, the calls are “about ending the refugee status of millions of Palestinians”.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:36 - Apr 18 with 1045 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/18/biden-weapon-report-israel-abuse

'The incidents involving alleged abuses mostly took place in the West Bank before the 7 October Hamas attack and the outbreak of the Gaza war. They included extrajudicial killings by the border police, a case in which an elderly Palestinian-American man was gagged, handcuffed and left to die, and an allegation that interrogators tortured and raped a teenager accused of throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails.'

.....guess what.....

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:22 - Apr 18 with 1005 viewsStokieBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:52 - Apr 18 by DJR

Very powerful.

[Post edited 18 Apr 20:53]


Yeah, but the still allowed to post philly wants to debate the semantics of "disproportionate".

SB
[Post edited 19 Apr 9:05]

Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 01:27 - Apr 19 with 966 viewsChorleyBoy

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:22 - Apr 18 by StokieBlue

Yeah, but the still allowed to post philly wants to debate the semantics of "disproportionate".

SB
[Post edited 19 Apr 9:05]


It's disappointing. I've had a post removed from this thread for being "from anti-Israeli sources peddling conspiracy nonsense from Hamas" showing Israelis stating that the IDF shot at them and also video footage of Israeli tanks firing shells at houses in Kibbutz Kfar Aza, Yet death-cult-Philly is able to post his genocide-condoning comments freely.
[Post edited 19 Apr 1:35]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:43 - Apr 19 with 839 viewsleitrimblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 01:27 - Apr 19 by ChorleyBoy

It's disappointing. I've had a post removed from this thread for being "from anti-Israeli sources peddling conspiracy nonsense from Hamas" showing Israelis stating that the IDF shot at them and also video footage of Israeli tanks firing shells at houses in Kibbutz Kfar Aza, Yet death-cult-Philly is able to post his genocide-condoning comments freely.
[Post edited 19 Apr 1:35]


Abuse reported
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:50 - Apr 19 with 830 viewsPhilTWTD

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 01:27 - Apr 19 by ChorleyBoy

It's disappointing. I've had a post removed from this thread for being "from anti-Israeli sources peddling conspiracy nonsense from Hamas" showing Israelis stating that the IDF shot at them and also video footage of Israeli tanks firing shells at houses in Kibbutz Kfar Aza, Yet death-cult-Philly is able to post his genocide-condoning comments freely.
[Post edited 19 Apr 1:35]


That is a misrepresentation of why the post was removed. You posted, among other things, that Israel had deliberately killed their own hostages.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:53 - Apr 19 with 817 viewsStokieBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:50 - Apr 19 by PhilTWTD

That is a misrepresentation of why the post was removed. You posted, among other things, that Israel had deliberately killed their own hostages.


I didn't see the post in question, however they did shoot 3 of the hostages who were carrying white flags and had stripped off to show they didn't have explosives.

A very deliberate act of shooting unarmed non-combatants regardless of whether they were hostages or civilians.

SB

Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:02 - Apr 19 with 775 viewsChorleyBoy

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:50 - Apr 19 by PhilTWTD

That is a misrepresentation of why the post was removed. You posted, among other things, that Israel had deliberately killed their own hostages.


I beg to differ Phil. There are images of tanks firing on houses in Kibbutz Kfar Aza. There is also footage of helicopter gunships firing on cars leaving the music concert. There are also reports from Israeli civilians and former IDF members stating that this happened. The problem seems to be that these images are broadcasted on pro-Palestinian websites but that doesn't take away the fact that these events happened, only that these events have not been reported on our own Israel-supporting media.

If I have missed the point, please tell be how I have broken your site's T&Cs and I'll moderate my posting accordingly in future.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:06 - Apr 19 with 760 viewsChorleyBoy

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:53 - Apr 19 by StokieBlue

I didn't see the post in question, however they did shoot 3 of the hostages who were carrying white flags and had stripped off to show they didn't have explosives.

A very deliberate act of shooting unarmed non-combatants regardless of whether they were hostages or civilians.

SB


These were the non-combatants that were shouting "Don't shoot" in Hebrew and had drawn attention to their location by openly displaying a sign written in Hebrew, right?
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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:10 - Apr 19 with 750 viewsEuropablue

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 21:14 - Nov 2 by DJR

This, from the Guardian, seems extremely callous behaviour from the Foreign Office given all that UK citizens in Gaza have suffered.

"Another person waiting to be evacuated from Gaza said the Foreign Office had told him that the British government would pay for two nights’ accommodation in Cairo but would not facilitate flights.

The Londoner, who did not want to be named, said he received a message saying: “Once you have passed into Egypt, we will provide you transport to Cairo and two nights’ accommodation should you need it. We are not facilitating flights from Egypt at this time.”

In another message sent on Thursday afternoon, the rapid deployment team messaged the man saying: “We can offer some support with planning your onward travel but we are not at present facilitating flights from Cairo to the UK – this is at your own cost.”"
[Post edited 2 Nov 2023 21:16]


There is only limited money to go around, why can't they fund their own flights? Or if people feel strongly enough about it, then they can fund the flights directly?
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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:16 - Apr 19 with 732 viewsEuropablue

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 22:03 - Nov 2 by Guthrum

It's not that I disagree with it. Of course the killing must stop, it's already gone on too long and I don't believe the way Israel is conducting operations is even effective to achieve the ends they claim.

But a ceasefire is only the start. How is it to be enforced? The UN is currently about as much use as a wet paper bag. Who provides peacekeepers which would be acceptable to both sides? How do you persuade the Israelis to stop? How do you ensure that Hamas and all its splinter groups stop? How do you force the release of the hostages (or return of bodies)? How do you supply Gaza if Israel won't (a distinct possibility)?

This situation was not simple even before October 7th. It is even less so now.


People calling for a ceasefire sound very much like people calling for world peace. It's just a lot of either hot air or virtue signaling and does nothing to solve the problem. Saying "how many people need to die?" is also nonsense.
This all seems very one-sided.
Your response shows the nuances that need to be considered.
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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:25 - Apr 19 with 703 viewsEuropablue

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 08:03 - Nov 3 by Ryorry

If Hamas truly wanted some progress on the whole ghastly situation instead of avowing to “wipe Israel off the face of the earth”, they could release the hostages. Why don’t they do that?


Hamas are clearly bad actors and they are using the grievances of Palestinians as justification for terrorism while at the same time using Palestinians as human shields.
It's in the interests of Hamas for more Palestinians to be killed and even better for their propaganda would be dead babies.
The response from Israel should recognize that they have to be the ones to take the moral highground and try their best to treat the general population of Palestine fairly even though it is clear that Hamas are hiding among them. It shouldn't be an opportunity for Israel to get moral ammunition to retaliate.
The whole thing is a total disaster. Terrorism is such an evil tactic, but it turns the righteous into demons.
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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:29 - Apr 19 with 682 viewsEuropablue

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 08:05 - Nov 3 by DJR

This paragraph, from the Guardian, indicates the US isn't putting any restraint on Israeli action.

"The US will not seek to impose any conditions on the support it gives Israel to defend itself in the wake of the Hamas attacks of 7 October, vice-president Kamala Harris said on Thursday. She refused to comment on Israel’s bombing of the Jabalia refugee camp, adding: “We are not telling Israel how it should conduct this war.”"

This is clearly the UK government and opposition line also, and will be so long as the US doesn't soften its stance.

All the US appears to be pursuing is a brief pause for humanitarian reasons. But they voted against this a couple of weeks ago, and I get the sense they have only changed their stance because of the diplomatic consequences in the Arab world of what is going on.

And where the US goes on pauses, so goes the main UK political parties.

Incidentally, this must be a unique conflict in the sense that people are trapped in such a small war zone and have nowhere to go. I can't think of any parallel because, for example, many people suffering in the Syrian war were able to escape the conflict if they wanted to.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 8:10]


Can you imagine anyone telling the US that they could not respond to an unprecedented terrorist attacks?
The response will unquestionably be emotionally led and cause more problems than it solves.
The context is that multiple countries are set on the annihilation of the state of Israel and the Jewish people.
If people on this forum thing they can solve this problem, then good luck with that!
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:31 - Apr 19 with 679 viewsEuropablue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:02 - Apr 19 by ChorleyBoy

I beg to differ Phil. There are images of tanks firing on houses in Kibbutz Kfar Aza. There is also footage of helicopter gunships firing on cars leaving the music concert. There are also reports from Israeli civilians and former IDF members stating that this happened. The problem seems to be that these images are broadcasted on pro-Palestinian websites but that doesn't take away the fact that these events happened, only that these events have not been reported on our own Israel-supporting media.

If I have missed the point, please tell be how I have broken your site's T&Cs and I'll moderate my posting accordingly in future.


I don't know why Phil even allows topics like this. It's to his credit that he allows a forum on non-footballing issues in the first place.
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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:37 - Apr 19 with 916 viewsChorleyBoy

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:25 - Apr 19 by Europablue

Hamas are clearly bad actors and they are using the grievances of Palestinians as justification for terrorism while at the same time using Palestinians as human shields.
It's in the interests of Hamas for more Palestinians to be killed and even better for their propaganda would be dead babies.
The response from Israel should recognize that they have to be the ones to take the moral highground and try their best to treat the general population of Palestine fairly even though it is clear that Hamas are hiding among them. It shouldn't be an opportunity for Israel to get moral ammunition to retaliate.
The whole thing is a total disaster. Terrorism is such an evil tactic, but it turns the righteous into demons.


"It's in the interests of Hamas for more Palestinians to be killed and even better for their propaganda would be dead babies."

I don't disagree with this statement but if anyone on this site made a similar comment swapping the the name Hamas for the Israeli Government and Palestinians for Israelis, their comments would be deemed disgusting when in fact Israel's reaction to October 7 has been fuelled or at least tacitly supported precisely because of killed innocents, especially dead babies [EDIT] and of course victimhood (on both sides).
[Post edited 19 Apr 14:43]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:59 - Apr 19 with 851 viewsChorleyBoy

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:31 - Apr 19 by Europablue

I don't know why Phil even allows topics like this. It's to his credit that he allows a forum on non-footballing issues in the first place.


He's playing with fire for sure and he has my deepest sympathy but at the end of the day it's almost certainly an economic decision.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:10 - Apr 19 with 795 viewsgiant_stow

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:59 - Apr 19 by ChorleyBoy

He's playing with fire for sure and he has my deepest sympathy but at the end of the day it's almost certainly an economic decision.


Think you're most likely wrong about the economic decision bit.

Pretty sure it's much more publicly spirited than that - the regulars often want to talk abut difficult things, so Phil goes along with it even though it probably causes him a disproportionate amount of work compared to the clicks it brings. There's a whole wide site to generate clicks other than a few fractious debate threads.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
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