| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus 13:50 - Jan 15 with 9923 views | unstableblue |
Just consider this:
1) Trump hired a group of lawyers to prove the election was 'rigged', they reported no evidence. He hired a second group to do the same, and not only did they not find any evidence on wrongdoing, they turned into an-anti Trump group highlighting the fallacy of Trump's position.
2) Trump is facing 91 felony charges across 4 prosecutions
3) He without doubt instigated the Capitol insurrection
He has lied 1000s of times, and on all of the issues above. He is out of control in court, seemingly thinking he has impunity. He has radicalised huge swathes of the American public to be anti-State.
If he is put up against Biden.. he will A) Win and/or B) further radicalise and polarise the American population.
Trump for me is one of the maddest events/movements we have ever seen in our lifetimes.
BONKERS |  |
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 15:48 - Jan 16 with 1334 views | positivity |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 15:32 - Jan 16 by leitrimblue |
That's such a hard sentence to get yer head around- 'immigrants contaminating American blood' Where to start?
Perhaps they are talking about Native Americans?  |
i agree with trump; think america would be a much better place if the drumpfs had never emigrated there... |  |
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 15:53 - Jan 16 with 1325 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 20:56 - Jan 15 by Europablue |
I don't remember the target being set on Clinton's back like it has been with Trump. My impression was probably that previously the Republicans were waiting for a slip-up then pounced. What Clinton got in trouble for was nothing compared to what has happened before in American history. So yes, you could say that the political norm was shifted, but it's interesting that it wasn't weaponized again until it was used against Trump. Whereas Nancy Pelosi publically stated that she was going to impeach him. The way they used it was frankly a waste of time and money. You can't impeach someone because you don't like their politics because you need a majority to successfully impeach someone.
"You're trying very hard to appear to be not partisan but it slips out every so often." that sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. You probably hate Trump so much you can't be rational about him. I'm not a Trump supporter, pragmatically I think he's better than Biden. Ron Desantis is more of a role model, but obviously he's not as charismatic as Trump. |
If fascism is your bag and democracy isn't you are saying all the right things.
It's obvious to most sensible people that Trump is a sociopathic egocentric serial liar. How you think the world is a safer place with him rather than Biden is laughable.
1930s Italy or Franco Spain methinks |  | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 15:57 - Jan 16 with 1312 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 14:13 - Jan 16 by NthQldITFC |
Do your tour dates sell out often?
It's a class of humour which I just don't understand. I must be getting old. |
POTD | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 11:59 - Jan 17 with 1197 views | DJR |
Very disturbing that Trump has recently been referring to those in prison because of 6 Jan as hostages.
As well as being very disrespectful to Israel, which he professes to support, it is also a twisting of the truth which his supporters will no doubt buy hook, line and sinker. |  | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:17 - Jan 17 with 1163 views | Blueschev |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 11:59 - Jan 17 by DJR |
Very disturbing that Trump has recently been referring to those in prison because of 6 Jan as hostages.
As well as being very disrespectful to Israel, which he professes to support, it is also a twisting of the truth which his supporters will no doubt buy hook, line and sinker. |
What has Trump said about Israel? I've not seen that reported. I thought he'd be mindful not to alienate his evangelical base. Mind you he's not known for being mindful. |  | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:29 - Jan 17 with 1110 views | DJR |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:17 - Jan 17 by Blueschev |
What has Trump said about Israel? I've not seen that reported. I thought he'd be mindful not to alienate his evangelical base. Mind you he's not known for being mindful. |
I haven't followed every thing he has said, but as you would expect, he's all over the place, shooting from the hip and always seeking his own advantage.
Early on this is what he is reported as having said.
"During remarks to a crowd of supporters, Mr Trump said Israel had to "straighten it out because they're fighting, potentially a very big force".
He called Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant a "jerk" and repeatedly called Hezbollah, the militant Islamist group in Lebanon, "very smart".
Mr Trump also said that Israel had initially agreed to work with the US on a 2020 drone strike that killed Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani, but that they backed out at the last minute.
"I'll never forget that Bibi Netanyahu let us down," he said. "That was a very terrible thing."
In a television interview that aired Thursday, he went further in his criticism of the Israeli prime minister, saying Mr Netanyahu was "not very prepared" for the possibility of a Hamas attack."
This was CNN's comment on what he said.
"Donald Trump’s inflammatory and artless comments about Hamas’ horror in Israel emphasize the defining characteristic of his attitude toward foreign policy and his entire political world view: It’s all about him.
Trump criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, lauded Hezbollah militants as “very smart” and sought political gain from the attacks that killed 1,200 people by claiming that if the last election was not “rigged,” he’d be the American president and they’d never have happened."
He later said the following, which is not what you would expect of an ally of Israel.
“There is no hatred like the Palestinian hatred of Israel and Jewish people. And probably the other way around also, I don’t know. You know, it’s not as obvious, but probably that’s it too. So sometimes you have to let things play out and you have to see where it ends,” [Post edited 17 Jan 13:42]
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 15:36 - Jan 17 with 1061 views | Blueschev |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:29 - Jan 17 by DJR |
I haven't followed every thing he has said, but as you would expect, he's all over the place, shooting from the hip and always seeking his own advantage.
Early on this is what he is reported as having said.
"During remarks to a crowd of supporters, Mr Trump said Israel had to "straighten it out because they're fighting, potentially a very big force".
He called Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant a "jerk" and repeatedly called Hezbollah, the militant Islamist group in Lebanon, "very smart".
Mr Trump also said that Israel had initially agreed to work with the US on a 2020 drone strike that killed Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani, but that they backed out at the last minute.
"I'll never forget that Bibi Netanyahu let us down," he said. "That was a very terrible thing."
In a television interview that aired Thursday, he went further in his criticism of the Israeli prime minister, saying Mr Netanyahu was "not very prepared" for the possibility of a Hamas attack."
This was CNN's comment on what he said.
"Donald Trump’s inflammatory and artless comments about Hamas’ horror in Israel emphasize the defining characteristic of his attitude toward foreign policy and his entire political world view: It’s all about him.
Trump criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, lauded Hezbollah militants as “very smart” and sought political gain from the attacks that killed 1,200 people by claiming that if the last election was not “rigged,” he’d be the American president and they’d never have happened."
He later said the following, which is not what you would expect of an ally of Israel.
“There is no hatred like the Palestinian hatred of Israel and Jewish people. And probably the other way around also, I don’t know. You know, it’s not as obvious, but probably that’s it too. So sometimes you have to let things play out and you have to see where it ends,” [Post edited 17 Jan 13:42]
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Jesus, that really is all over the shop. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 09:50 - Jan 22 with 860 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 14:00 - Jan 16 by StokieBlue |
Please explain how the world would have been more stable under Trump without using the words "power vacuum" which you've provided no evidence for whatsoever.
SB |
The simple answer is weak leadership. Like Biden's campaign, he has either been absent or his leadership has been lacking during his time as President.
The enemies of the West have been waiting for an opportunity to push further. In 2014 the response to Russia annexing Crimea was too weak and Putin was biding his time until a weak leader was in charge of the US.
Biden demonstrated his weak leadership in the shambles of the withdrawal from Afghanistan. It was the right policy, but the execution was a national embarrassment.
That emboldened Putin. Then Hamas took the opportunity to attack Israel while America was distracted.
It can only be a hypothetical exercise, but I am confident that Putin wouldn't have attacked if America was governed by Trump. Trump was also brokering deals in the Middle East that gave Israel international recognition and made Israel safer from the Sunni countries. You may argue that provoked Iran and Hamas.
China needs strong pushback and Trump will do that better than Biden (or whoever is pulling the strings) would. | | | |
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 09:56 - Jan 22 with 849 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 15:53 - Jan 16 by reusersfreekicks |
If fascism is your bag and democracy isn't you are saying all the right things.
It's obvious to most sensible people that Trump is a sociopathic egocentric serial liar. How you think the world is a safer place with him rather than Biden is laughable.
1930s Italy or Franco Spain methinks |
The key point that most people aren't really considering is that it has never been Trump alone winning all those votes and support, it is that he has been up against the alternative has always been terrible. Hillary and Biden.
I really don't understand what reality people are living in where they think a Trump presidency is going to become a fascist dictatorship. He hardly achieved anything last time.
People have been watching too many superhero movies methinks! ;) | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:02 - Jan 22 with 832 views | NthQldITFC |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 09:56 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
The key point that most people aren't really considering is that it has never been Trump alone winning all those votes and support, it is that he has been up against the alternative has always been terrible. Hillary and Biden.
I really don't understand what reality people are living in where they think a Trump presidency is going to become a fascist dictatorship. He hardly achieved anything last time.
People have been watching too many superhero movies methinks! ;) |
Your whitewash is a little thin, methinks. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:04 - Jan 22 with 830 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 11:59 - Jan 17 by DJR |
Very disturbing that Trump has recently been referring to those in prison because of 6 Jan as hostages.
As well as being very disrespectful to Israel, which he professes to support, it is also a twisting of the truth which his supporters will no doubt buy hook, line and sinker. |
It would be very easy to describe them as political prisoners which is similar to hostages.
Look at what the people did and the charges that they got. There is just no consistency with similar cases. There was no armed insurgency. The behaviour was not acceptable, but to pretend that it was an attempted overthrowing of the government when they used no guns and didn't really plan or coordinate it, is disingenuous. It was clearly a protest that got out of hand and Trump should also have done more not to whip up the protesters who turned into a mob. Still, he technically didn't condone the behaviour because he told them to go home and be peaceful. The problem in America is that both sides are waiting for the other side to do something bad so that they can then exaggerate it beyond recognition to score political points. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:07 - Jan 22 with 817 views | Blueschev |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 09:50 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
The simple answer is weak leadership. Like Biden's campaign, he has either been absent or his leadership has been lacking during his time as President.
The enemies of the West have been waiting for an opportunity to push further. In 2014 the response to Russia annexing Crimea was too weak and Putin was biding his time until a weak leader was in charge of the US.
Biden demonstrated his weak leadership in the shambles of the withdrawal from Afghanistan. It was the right policy, but the execution was a national embarrassment.
That emboldened Putin. Then Hamas took the opportunity to attack Israel while America was distracted.
It can only be a hypothetical exercise, but I am confident that Putin wouldn't have attacked if America was governed by Trump. Trump was also brokering deals in the Middle East that gave Israel international recognition and made Israel safer from the Sunni countries. You may argue that provoked Iran and Hamas.
China needs strong pushback and Trump will do that better than Biden (or whoever is pulling the strings) would. |
Trump is instinctively isolationist, what on earth makes you believe he would've prevented Putin invading Ukraine? He said he wanted to leave NATO for goodness sake! | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:12 - Jan 22 with 807 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:34 - Jan 16 by eireblue |
Yea, so ancestors are not typically grandparents. Anyhoo
Everyone has a history they can claim they are proud of. You just ignore the bits you are not proud of.
Every culture has a cultural history and legacy, that isn’t saying, well anything. [Post edited 16 Jan 13:19]
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It's possible to be proud of our history when we were better than our contemporaries (such as pushing for the ban of the slave trade) and at the same time not be proud that we behaved very much in line with the common bad behavours of the time. It's not the same as ignoring our embarrassing history, we just have to consider it in the cultural context of when it happened and also remember that all humans are fallible.
We can also be proud of our cultural heritage of the concept of free speech, fair play, and democracy that compares well to many other parts of the world. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:20 - Jan 22 with 789 views | StokieBlue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:12 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
It's possible to be proud of our history when we were better than our contemporaries (such as pushing for the ban of the slave trade) and at the same time not be proud that we behaved very much in line with the common bad behavours of the time. It's not the same as ignoring our embarrassing history, we just have to consider it in the cultural context of when it happened and also remember that all humans are fallible.
We can also be proud of our cultural heritage of the concept of free speech, fair play, and democracy that compares well to many other parts of the world. |
Still standing behind your assertion that Desantis is a "moral person" after he's decided to declare his support for Trump who you cited as clearly immoral?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Wow! on 11:17 - Jan 22 with 729 views | unstableblue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:04 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
It would be very easy to describe them as political prisoners which is similar to hostages.
Look at what the people did and the charges that they got. There is just no consistency with similar cases. There was no armed insurgency. The behaviour was not acceptable, but to pretend that it was an attempted overthrowing of the government when they used no guns and didn't really plan or coordinate it, is disingenuous. It was clearly a protest that got out of hand and Trump should also have done more not to whip up the protesters who turned into a mob. Still, he technically didn't condone the behaviour because he told them to go home and be peaceful. The problem in America is that both sides are waiting for the other side to do something bad so that they can then exaggerate it beyond recognition to score political points. |
What parts of the internet and what sites are you getting these views from?!
Whilst there is real merit in the concept that the majority were just a bunch of Trump supporters who got fired up by the ex-President to storm the Capitol, and it was more a tourist jamboree. I get that.
But if you actually watch the footage, you realise that this was the STORMING of the Capitol, that there was real violence, and it is clear there were organised groups. Who should rightly have the book thrown at them.
Imagine if people turned up at our Parliament, and rushed it in that manner, with a police officer dying. Watch the fricking footage man?! What kind of society doesn't bring consequences for this kind of action, it would just be anarchy.
But why I'm replying is this:
'Still, he technically didn't condone the behaviour because he told them to go home and be peaceful. '
You are so off the mark here - Trump does not give sh1t about those protesters or the consequences of his words. He's a narcissist. Of course he condoned it initially, and egged them up. How can you even have close to this opinion. | |
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 11:32 - Jan 22 with 676 views | Blueschev |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:04 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
It would be very easy to describe them as political prisoners which is similar to hostages.
Look at what the people did and the charges that they got. There is just no consistency with similar cases. There was no armed insurgency. The behaviour was not acceptable, but to pretend that it was an attempted overthrowing of the government when they used no guns and didn't really plan or coordinate it, is disingenuous. It was clearly a protest that got out of hand and Trump should also have done more not to whip up the protesters who turned into a mob. Still, he technically didn't condone the behaviour because he told them to go home and be peaceful. The problem in America is that both sides are waiting for the other side to do something bad so that they can then exaggerate it beyond recognition to score political points. |
"There is just no consistency with similar cases." Please give an example of said similar cases? | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 11:37 - Jan 22 with 665 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:09 - Jan 16 by leitrimblue |
Sorry, I missed the earlier discussion on Ancient Greece. Though I would add from a merely personal perspective that I think Roman influence on the UK as been greatly exaggerated. Don't get me wrong, they carried out some very worthwhile Civil engineering projects but the actual influence on our culture I'm not so sure. Think a lot of the perceived Ancient Rome and Greeces influence over the UK as more to do with public schoolboys obsession with the classics then any real cultural identification.
I think when you are discussing 'fences' what you are describing are cultural norms. Your right that in many ways it is these shared cultural norms that that in some way give us cultural, tribal or national identity. But it is completely normal for these cultural norms to be tested and adjusted continuously. Has they have been since the beginning of human grouping.
The cultural norms can not stay the same otherwise we would still have the same cultural views as our mesolithic or iron age ancestors. Who I'm pretty sure thought very differently from us.
What changes do you personally think have been bad for society I wonder?
Personally I'm far from convinced the adoption of agriculture and leaving behind our successful hunter gatherer past was such a wise move |
I think you have misinterpreted the whole context of what I was talking about. I wasn't saying that cultural norms have to entirely stay the same, but that the unintended consequences have to be very carefully considered and we can't just recklessly break things and hope we can build something better.
"What changes do you personally think have been bad for society?" is a very good question and something that can really widen the scope of the debate.
I think people naturally consider the time when things were best in relation to when they were in their physical prime. That can work for most people. Things like "the football was more authentic when I was young" or "the music was much better in my day", "we had real movie stars in my day", etc.
For a longer deliberation see the following:
There are so many things that seem almost no-brainers that had unintended consequences. There are even things that I would sympathise with, but have been pushed too far and too fast.
I'll give you some examples of concepts that have been bad for society so you are more satisfied. I hope people take them in the sense that I mean them rather than looking for prejudices where there are none intended. This is probably not the best forum for debate, because I think you need to trust in people's good intentions to be able to have a fair and reasonable debate. I always try to assume that people are coming from an intellectually honest perspective. I only engage in these kinds of exchanges to learn something, so I'm actually looking for my ideas to be challenged in a constructive way. If it's just mudslinging, then it's a waste of time. It's also a waste of time to stay vague and not offer anything that people can consider and perhaps pushback on.
These concepts may not be entirely discrete.
The loss of spirituality. It initially seems obvious that the natural end of a logical and scientific approach is that there is no need for religion. I rejected religion on this basis as a young man, but it is apparent that humans have a need for spirituality of some sort in the sense of understanding their place in the world. Christianity has a lot of good teachings, so does Buddhism and Shintoism. There are some things I really like about Islam as well. Religion can be corrupted and weaponized, but so can a lack of religion because people need to be tribal in some way. I prefer to be tribal in relation to my football team and my family and friends.
Atomization of society. There doesn't seem to be the same sense of community as there used to be. There are many reasons for this including both parents working, people moving for work, or because they are priced out of where they are from, the siloing of culture leading to a lack of shared culture. The sense of community and value of the extended family has been degraded in general across the country and maybe the West as a whole.
Multiculturalism. British culture can be added to and adjusted and being British isn't limited by race. However, everyone living in Britain has to be British or accept British supremacy (that is, no separate laws and courts in certain communities).
Ideological puritanicalism. There seems to be a lack of compassion in general. It seems like people are very quick to demonize people and label people good or bad. We should judge people on the totality of their actions and put more weight on their actions than their words. One poor choice of words should not end a career. We should not project our interpretation as the intention of the person. Education is better than punitive action.
Forced acceptance rather than tolerance. We must allow freedom of thought. You can disagree with someone's lifestyle or point of view without trying to ban it. If there were no consequences I would ban all mushrooms, but then people I love really enjoy mushrooms, and if we banned everything that some people disliked, there would be nothing left.
Tolerance as a virtue. There are many things that we should not tolerate, such as racism. It is also very bad to tolerate things that we identify as bad (for example Nazism) and not act against them. The context also matters, some behaviour is perfectly acceptable (if not acceptable none of anyone else's business) in the privacy of your own home, but not in public.
Diversity of race, sexuality, or basically anything (other than thought) as a positive rather than a neutral thing. It should never be a target to have more or less people in positions based on their inherent characteristics. You couldn't get much further from Martin Luther King's dream than judging people based on the colour of their skin rather than their character.
Pushback against freedom of speech and the government punishing freedom of speech. The only time when we need freedom of speech is when we don't agree with what is being said.
Commoditization of housing and football clubs. House prices are artificially high due to speculation in the housing market, meaning that many people can't afford a place to live or have to move away from family to find somewhere affordable. The greatest value of Football clubs is what they mean to the people and the community. They are not just assets to make money on.
The NHS (which is the system) being confused with doctors and nurses etc. who are part of the system. The NHS is terrible there are much better alternative systems across Europe and probably elsewhere.
Just a few things to give some food for thought and maybe ammunition for those who would prefer to attack me than engage in debate. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:01 - Jan 22 with 630 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 14:16 - Jan 15 by nodge_blue |
If he gets in I wouldn't put it past him to try and change the constitution. |
Think that needs a two thirds majority so no chance.
Something wrong when your choice of President is between an elderly man, to whom the truth is a stranger, and even older ditherer. |  |
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:23 - Jan 22 with 593 views | BlueNomad |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 09:56 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
The key point that most people aren't really considering is that it has never been Trump alone winning all those votes and support, it is that he has been up against the alternative has always been terrible. Hillary and Biden.
I really don't understand what reality people are living in where they think a Trump presidency is going to become a fascist dictatorship. He hardly achieved anything last time.
People have been watching too many superhero movies methinks! ;) |
Read yesterday's Observer.
Trump is a fascist. He wants unchallenged power, has a disregard for the law, identifies enemies within, distorts religion, has always engaged in criminal (or at least borderline) behaviour, is a nationalist / racist female abuser / user who relies on his supporters' feelings of powerlessness through his lies. He has made the world a more dangerous place as he has given the far-right and autocrats the green light across the globe.
You have done nothing but apologise for him and his ilk for quite a while now. [Post edited 22 Jan 12:25]
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:43 - Jan 22 with 559 views | DJR |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:04 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
It would be very easy to describe them as political prisoners which is similar to hostages.
Look at what the people did and the charges that they got. There is just no consistency with similar cases. There was no armed insurgency. The behaviour was not acceptable, but to pretend that it was an attempted overthrowing of the government when they used no guns and didn't really plan or coordinate it, is disingenuous. It was clearly a protest that got out of hand and Trump should also have done more not to whip up the protesters who turned into a mob. Still, he technically didn't condone the behaviour because he told them to go home and be peaceful. The problem in America is that both sides are waiting for the other side to do something bad so that they can then exaggerate it beyond recognition to score political points. |
None of the protesters has been charged with insurrection, and to describe them as political prisoners is a nonsense because none of them has been charged because of their political views
A few have been charged with seditious conspiracy (because they were involved in planning what took place), but if you look at the following you will see the vast majority have been charged with things like obstruction and assault.
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-capitol-rioters-jailed-sentences-january-6-18 [Post edited 22 Jan 12:45]
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| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:51 - Jan 22 with 537 views | BlueNomad |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:43 - Jan 22 by DJR |
None of the protesters has been charged with insurrection, and to describe them as political prisoners is a nonsense because none of them has been charged because of their political views
A few have been charged with seditious conspiracy (because they were involved in planning what took place), but if you look at the following you will see the vast majority have been charged with things like obstruction and assault.
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-capitol-rioters-jailed-sentences-january-6-18 [Post edited 22 Jan 12:45]
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I think that, whenever you point anything that doesn't fit the Trump narrative, it falls on stony ground. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:39 - Jan 22 with 490 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 12:43 - Jan 22 by DJR |
None of the protesters has been charged with insurrection, and to describe them as political prisoners is a nonsense because none of them has been charged because of their political views
A few have been charged with seditious conspiracy (because they were involved in planning what took place), but if you look at the following you will see the vast majority have been charged with things like obstruction and assault.
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-capitol-rioters-jailed-sentences-january-6-18 [Post edited 22 Jan 12:45]
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Fair points fairly made.
Considering that it was referred to as an insurrection, you would think that someone would be charged with insurrection.
The political part of it is how harshly they are prosecuted. There is just no consistency with how they were charged like in many case in the UK. The length of the sentence is the political part.
Calling them political prisoners is a bit much even if there is a reasonable argument that the length of sentences is political. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:47 - Jan 22 with 465 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:07 - Jan 22 by Blueschev |
Trump is instinctively isolationist, what on earth makes you believe he would've prevented Putin invading Ukraine? He said he wanted to leave NATO for goodness sake! |
I would characterize Trump as being egotistical. I think there is a difference in being isolationist and thinking of yourself first, and in this instance thinking of the country ahead of the rest of the world. It is the job of the President to do what he sees as being in the best interests of the country.
Trump put record amounts of funding into the military. He claimed that he would cut back on government spending, but it doesn't matter much who is in charge, the budgets always balloon.
I really believe that Putin wouldn't risk escalating while Trump was in charge. Some of the proof is that he didn't attack Ukraine while Trump was in charge.
It's probably not a good thing for Ukraine for Trump to be elected. It's very difficult to justify sending so much money to fight a war that isn't really in America's interest when that funding could help so many people in the US. In Europe, the public's resolve to support Ukraine is being tested. I think most people morally support Ukraine, but I doubt the majority are prepared to face economic hardship or have terrible public services to keep Ukraine at war.
I don't think Trump wants to leave NATO, I think he just wanted to scare the nation states to pay their fair share. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:51 - Jan 22 with 455 views | Europablue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 10:20 - Jan 22 by StokieBlue |
Still standing behind your assertion that Desantis is a "moral person" after he's decided to declare his support for Trump who you cited as clearly immoral?
SB |
You'll have to quote me saying that I think DeSantis is a moral person. I said that he has more fixed morals than Trump or Hillary Clinton. Morals are very subjective, but it's not subjective that he and Hillary care more about winning than sticking to moral principles.
I'm sure you can understand the concept of the lesser of two evils. DeSantis is supporting Trump over Haley. He actually believes that he himself is a better option, but realizes that he doesn't have the support. | | | |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:56 - Jan 22 with 432 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The world has gone mad (part 78,957) - Trump to win by a landslide Iowa caucus on 13:51 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
You'll have to quote me saying that I think DeSantis is a moral person. I said that he has more fixed morals than Trump or Hillary Clinton. Morals are very subjective, but it's not subjective that he and Hillary care more about winning than sticking to moral principles.
I'm sure you can understand the concept of the lesser of two evils. DeSantis is supporting Trump over Haley. He actually believes that he himself is a better option, but realizes that he doesn't have the support. |
Perhaps he is looking four years ahead and is hoping he will be vice President. | |
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