| Tory snowflakes update on 10:51 - Mar 22 with 1114 views | DJR |
| Tory snowflakes update on 10:40 - Mar 22 by leitrimblue |
Is it because the English don't have any agreeable culture that they end up arguing over the colours of the flag of a dragon slayer from the otherside of the world?  |
You forgot morris dancing. |  | |  |
| Tory snowflakes update on 10:55 - Mar 22 with 1102 views | mutters |
| Tory snowflakes update on 10:40 - Mar 22 by leitrimblue |
Is it because the English don't have any agreeable culture that they end up arguing over the colours of the flag of a dragon slayer from the otherside of the world? |
If you think St George was from the other side of the world then to need to travel more 😀 |  |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 10:59 - Mar 22 with 1075 views | Herbivore |
| Tory snowflakes update on 10:55 - Mar 22 by mutters |
If you think St George was from the other side of the world then to need to travel more 😀 |
He was from Turkey wasn't he, or thereabouts? Given that Nike are named after the Greek goddess of trainers, don't they both have about as much right as each other to determine our national flag? [Post edited 22 Mar 2024 11:13]
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:01 - Mar 22 with 1074 views | DJR |
The woke agenda is very clever because it is designed to whip up outrage, the result being that people end up focusing on trivia such as this whilst the country goes down the pan.
Of course, it looks like it's too late to save the Tories this time round because they have been in power for so long (and Reform have rather stolen their thunder), but the woke agenda, along with other issues focused on by the right, looks like they will be effective to ensure Trump is re-elected. [Post edited 22 Mar 2024 11:08]
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:13 - Mar 22 with 1034 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:01 - Mar 22 by DJR |
The woke agenda is very clever because it is designed to whip up outrage, the result being that people end up focusing on trivia such as this whilst the country goes down the pan.
Of course, it looks like it's too late to save the Tories this time round because they have been in power for so long (and Reform have rather stolen their thunder), but the woke agenda, along with other issues focused on by the right, looks like they will be effective to ensure Trump is re-elected. [Post edited 22 Mar 2024 11:08]
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It pits values against values doesn't it. So both 'sides' are justified in saying that they're right, in that they believe what they believe. It doesn't necessarily mean they are believing something that's true, but that's another story.
It's VERY effective up to a point and hard to counter. When someone stops believing it all breaks down, as we're seeing with the Tories. By not rising to it, and seemingly embracing views that are counter to what you'd expect, Starmer may be playing a blinder here. He also may not be of course, and it could backfire if he alienates 'traditional' labour supporters too much in the meantime. If he does he'll then need to win those people back through his policies. But then if he pivots towards the core traditional support, he'll alienate those he's trying to win over to secure a big majority. What a mess.
Going a bit off track with speculating on Starmer, but this is ultimately about politics. |  |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:15 - Mar 22 with 1020 views | Herbivore |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:01 - Mar 22 by DJR |
The woke agenda is very clever because it is designed to whip up outrage, the result being that people end up focusing on trivia such as this whilst the country goes down the pan.
Of course, it looks like it's too late to save the Tories this time round because they have been in power for so long (and Reform have rather stolen their thunder), but the woke agenda, along with other issues focused on by the right, looks like they will be effective to ensure Trump is re-elected. [Post edited 22 Mar 2024 11:08]
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I don't really see what this has to do with the woke agenda though? The colours Nike have used don't have anything to do with any particular 'woke' cause. It's mad really, all this frothing over the design of a football shirt. | |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:22 - Mar 22 with 1008 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:15 - Mar 22 by Herbivore |
I don't really see what this has to do with the woke agenda though? The colours Nike have used don't have anything to do with any particular 'woke' cause. It's mad really, all this frothing over the design of a football shirt. |
Maybe it's close enough colours for people to get confused with the rainbow motif? Let's face it we're talking about people like Lee Anderson - he's unlikely to know the difference!
Or just 'messing with the flag' is enough to get some people frothing at the mouth. | |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:24 - Mar 22 with 1001 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:22 - Mar 22 by Swansea_Blue |
Maybe it's close enough colours for people to get confused with the rainbow motif? Let's face it we're talking about people like Lee Anderson - he's unlikely to know the difference!
Or just 'messing with the flag' is enough to get some people frothing at the mouth. |
Im intrigued to know why they think it is 'woke'. |  | | |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:25 - Mar 22 with 998 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:13 - Mar 22 by Swansea_Blue |
It pits values against values doesn't it. So both 'sides' are justified in saying that they're right, in that they believe what they believe. It doesn't necessarily mean they are believing something that's true, but that's another story.
It's VERY effective up to a point and hard to counter. When someone stops believing it all breaks down, as we're seeing with the Tories. By not rising to it, and seemingly embracing views that are counter to what you'd expect, Starmer may be playing a blinder here. He also may not be of course, and it could backfire if he alienates 'traditional' labour supporters too much in the meantime. If he does he'll then need to win those people back through his policies. But then if he pivots towards the core traditional support, he'll alienate those he's trying to win over to secure a big majority. What a mess.
Going a bit off track with speculating on Starmer, but this is ultimately about politics. |
I’m not sure if I’ve misunderstood your post, but I don’t think it’s correct to shoehorn the traditional labour voter as being overwhelmingly socially progressive. A huge amount of their traditional core support are northern working class, socially conservative, ‘patriotic’ voters and have been for decades.
Apologies don’t want to send the thread on a tangent but it seemed to be somewhat back to front, I’d say Starmer is moving Labour back to their core support from the Momentum types to a much larger demographic, and one that Labour never get elected without getting them onside. | | | |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:26 - Mar 22 with 991 views | itfcjoe |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:15 - Mar 22 by Herbivore |
I don't really see what this has to do with the woke agenda though? The colours Nike have used don't have anything to do with any particular 'woke' cause. It's mad really, all this frothing over the design of a football shirt. |
I think someone has shown that the colours are part of a Bisexual flag (who knew there were so many flags) even though (presunably) obviously not linked to bisexuality, but it's the worst of both worlds.....it looks as though it is linked to something like Pride, but it actually isn't so there's no way to show a proper defence or reasoning for it for those like me who simply don't like it, and it still sets off the culture war |  |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:26 - Mar 22 with 986 views | DJR |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:15 - Mar 22 by Herbivore |
I don't really see what this has to do with the woke agenda though? The colours Nike have used don't have anything to do with any particular 'woke' cause. It's mad really, all this frothing over the design of a football shirt. |
The woke aspect of it is its being picked up as an issue by Anderson et al. | | | |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:29 - Mar 22 with 968 views | itfcjoe |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:22 - Mar 22 by Swansea_Blue |
Maybe it's close enough colours for people to get confused with the rainbow motif? Let's face it we're talking about people like Lee Anderson - he's unlikely to know the difference!
Or just 'messing with the flag' is enough to get some people frothing at the mouth. |
It's more that it's close enough for them to get away with saying it and it not be easy to shoot down quickly, so the damage is done | |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:30 - Mar 22 with 965 views | leitrimblue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 10:55 - Mar 22 by mutters |
If you think St George was from the other side of the world then to need to travel more 😀 |
He's hardly from Stowmarket |  | | |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:31 - Mar 22 with 958 views | leitrimblue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 10:51 - Mar 22 by DJR |
You forgot morris dancing. |
Give yer binge drinking and poor quality tattoos as well | | | |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:35 - Mar 22 with 949 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:25 - Mar 22 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I’m not sure if I’ve misunderstood your post, but I don’t think it’s correct to shoehorn the traditional labour voter as being overwhelmingly socially progressive. A huge amount of their traditional core support are northern working class, socially conservative, ‘patriotic’ voters and have been for decades.
Apologies don’t want to send the thread on a tangent but it seemed to be somewhat back to front, I’d say Starmer is moving Labour back to their core support from the Momentum types to a much larger demographic, and one that Labour never get elected without getting them onside. |
That's a fair point. The Red Wall after all is their heartland, as opposed to Owen Jones Oxbridge educated types. There has been a huge shift in the demographic of Labour support over several decades, so yeah point well made.
Starmer's issue is that he's got to try to keep both sorts (and all the sorts in between) happy. Or does he? Does he just need to recapture the red wall and make decent strides in Scotland? I'm not sure how the numbers play out. | |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 11:54 - Mar 22 with 909 views | DJR |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:25 - Mar 22 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I’m not sure if I’ve misunderstood your post, but I don’t think it’s correct to shoehorn the traditional labour voter as being overwhelmingly socially progressive. A huge amount of their traditional core support are northern working class, socially conservative, ‘patriotic’ voters and have been for decades.
Apologies don’t want to send the thread on a tangent but it seemed to be somewhat back to front, I’d say Starmer is moving Labour back to their core support from the Momentum types to a much larger demographic, and one that Labour never get elected without getting them onside. |
Interestingly though, those of the same demographic in Scotland haven't fallen for Tories since 1955.
There is something different going on in England which amongst other things led to the Brexit vote, when nearly two-thirds of Scots voted to remain. [Post edited 22 Mar 2024 12:00]
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| Tory snowflakes update on 12:03 - Mar 22 with 880 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:30 - Mar 22 by leitrimblue |
He's hardly from Stowmarket |
St George is as English as St Patrick is Irish mate. |  |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 12:05 - Mar 22 with 874 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 11:15 - Mar 22 by Herbivore |
I don't really see what this has to do with the woke agenda though? The colours Nike have used don't have anything to do with any particular 'woke' cause. It's mad really, all this frothing over the design of a football shirt. |
If it isn’t red on white then it isn’t the cross of Saint George …just a silly design feature no doubt with the intention of generating interest in the product. Nike have achieved their objective. |  |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 12:23 - Mar 22 with 838 views | LankHenners |
| Tory snowflakes update on 08:44 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
Because it's the National Flag on the National Shirt, right is doing it correctly, wrong is changing it with no explanation or need. |
What's odd is that they do have an explanation for it - that it's a small change to reference the 1966 World Cup training kit - but rather than leading with that they just went for the marketing mumbo jumbo of 'unite and inspire' which is unclear in meaning on the face of it and leaves itself open to all the nonsense which has followed. Not as if it works as much of a 'any press is good press' thing to sell more shirts as they're so expensive in the first place!
Plenty of clubs, Town included, obviously do stuff like that to mix past success with modernity and don't really see an issue with the National Team doing something similar (though understand if people think they should do so in another way which doesn't alter the flag). Although saying that I don't think had it been made obvious that that was their angle it would have prevented all this stupid discourse anyway. |  |
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| Tory snowflakes update on 12:37 - Mar 22 with 807 views | Plums |
It's brought out all the brightest sparks
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| Tory snowflakes update on 12:42 - Mar 22 with 798 views | itfcjoe |
| Tory snowflakes update on 12:23 - Mar 22 by LankHenners |
What's odd is that they do have an explanation for it - that it's a small change to reference the 1966 World Cup training kit - but rather than leading with that they just went for the marketing mumbo jumbo of 'unite and inspire' which is unclear in meaning on the face of it and leaves itself open to all the nonsense which has followed. Not as if it works as much of a 'any press is good press' thing to sell more shirts as they're so expensive in the first place!
Plenty of clubs, Town included, obviously do stuff like that to mix past success with modernity and don't really see an issue with the National Team doing something similar (though understand if people think they should do so in another way which doesn't alter the flag). Although saying that I don't think had it been made obvious that that was their angle it would have prevented all this stupid discourse anyway. |
It's a very strange angle though, because the 1966 training kit was distinct blue, red and white stripes and doesn't look purple at all....!
There was something on the BBC story about it where a football kit designer said this, which seems pretty mental....
"Obviously, that blue and red stripe together from a distance creates a bit of a purple,"
I'm not sure how far away from this picture you'd need to get before you can see a bit of purple?
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| Tory snowflakes update on 12:51 - Mar 22 with 775 views | leitrimblue |
| Tory snowflakes update on 12:03 - Mar 22 by GlasgowBlue |
St George is as English as St Patrick is Irish mate. |
Eeerrrmm, no, not really.
St George is from the middle East. Doesn't speak or understand the language of the English of that time period (OE). Has no knowledge or understanding of English culture of that time.
Dragon slaying is not a traditional English hobby.
He was probably unaware of the existence of England.
St Patrick came from the British Isles.
Spoke a similar language and was of a similar culture to the Irish ( though who knows wether the concept if Irish truely existed at the time).
Spent much of his adult life in Ireland and was completely aware, 1 could even say fundamental to Irish culture.
I'm more of a Colmcille man myself.
Think Patrick's importance was pushed by the O' Neil's and other Ulster clans who later claimed to be descended from him.
Think we should dump George and replace him with St Edmund personally.
Start building a English culture.. | | | |
| Tory snowflakes update on 13:09 - Mar 22 with 747 views | DJR |
| Tory snowflakes update on 12:37 - Mar 22 by Plums |
It's brought out all the brightest sparks
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An irony lost on him is that his Union Jack is the wrong colour, being a mixture of blue, black and white. [Post edited 22 Mar 2024 13:10]
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| Tory snowflakes update on 14:20 - Mar 22 with 1268 views | itfcjoe |
| Tory snowflakes update on 13:27 - Mar 22 by DJR |
Interestingly though, red, white and blues is a feature of the Union Jack, not the English flag, so even then it wasn't strictly correct to have blue in the kit.
And I've never really understood the blue shorts which go with the white shirt. [Post edited 22 Mar 2024 13:27]
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At that point, and really all the way up until Euro '96 if you look in the crowd at England games you'd see the Union Jack rather than the cross of St George so can see why back then it would have been red, white and blue.
I think blue shorts go best with the kit, and as we have now gone back to having the same kit for the men's and women's team there are good reasons as to why white shorts shouldn't be worn and women's teams have gone away from them.
I think we have tried red shorts before but didn't really go, so the white shirts, blue shorts and white socks goes well for me and 'looks' like England at first glance | |
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