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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder 19:27 - Apr 3 with 5315 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The bullsh1t detector is sounding loud and strong.
It is literally criminal what we have allowed them to get away with.

Edit...Furthermore...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airs

'According to +972 and Local Call, the IDF judged it permissible to kill more than 100 civilians in attacks on a top-ranking Hamas officials. “We had a calculation for how many [civilians could be killed] for the brigade commander, how many [civilians] for a battalion commander, and so on,” one source said.

“There were regulations, but they were just very lenient,” another added. “We’ve killed people with collateral damage in the high double digits, if not low triple digits. These are things that haven’t happened before.” There appears to have been significant fluctuations in the figure that military commanders would tolerate at different stages of the war.'

[Post edited 3 Apr 19:59]

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 21:59 - Apr 3 with 2261 viewsSwansea_Blue

Funny how it’s taken a few UK deaths for some people here in the UK, including some of our useless ‘leaders’, to belatedly realise that Netanyahu and the IDF are murdering scum. Well, when I say ‘funny’ I mean tragically predictable. Their hatred blinds them to their own atrocities. They won’t care two hoots about aid workers.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:16 - Apr 3 with 2236 viewsredrickstuhaart

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 21:59 - Apr 3 by Swansea_Blue

Funny how it’s taken a few UK deaths for some people here in the UK, including some of our useless ‘leaders’, to belatedly realise that Netanyahu and the IDF are murdering scum. Well, when I say ‘funny’ I mean tragically predictable. Their hatred blinds them to their own atrocities. They won’t care two hoots about aid workers.


One could argue its an act of war, murdering our citizens so blatantly. Certainly it is more than time to expel diplomats and impose sanctions.
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 with 2219 viewsGlasgowBlue

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 21:59 - Apr 3 by Swansea_Blue

Funny how it’s taken a few UK deaths for some people here in the UK, including some of our useless ‘leaders’, to belatedly realise that Netanyahu and the IDF are murdering scum. Well, when I say ‘funny’ I mean tragically predictable. Their hatred blinds them to their own atrocities. They won’t care two hoots about aid workers.


And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]

Iron Lion Zion
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:22 - Apr 3 with 2207 viewsNthQldITFC

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:16 - Apr 3 by redrickstuhaart

One could argue its an act of war, murdering our citizens so blatantly. Certainly it is more than time to expel diplomats and impose sanctions.


I think that might be the only sort of language they understand, but we won't do it. Not to them. Culpable.

Any change of approach by us or the yanks now is tempered by the fact that tens of thousands of innocent civilians have died during a time where we have essentially been seeing and saying the same things.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:31 - Apr 3 with 2174 viewsGlasgowBlue

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:16 - Apr 3 by redrickstuhaart

One could argue its an act of war, murdering our citizens so blatantly. Certainly it is more than time to expel diplomats and impose sanctions.


It was an act of war when Hamas murdered 14 British citizens on October 7th.

Iron Lion Zion
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:34 - Apr 3 with 2170 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 by GlasgowBlue

And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]


Do you really think I wouldn't and haven’t. But regardless an interesting angle from the friends of Israel in that tweet which changes absolutely nothing about the reality of Israel's actions in Gaza.

Edit...and excusing is exactly what that tweet seeks to do.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:37]

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:46 - Apr 3 with 2098 viewsjayessess

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:34 - Apr 3 by BanksterDebtSlave

Do you really think I wouldn't and haven’t. But regardless an interesting angle from the friends of Israel in that tweet which changes absolutely nothing about the reality of Israel's actions in Gaza.

Edit...and excusing is exactly what that tweet seeks to do.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:37]


Any organisation that's painting milquetoast liberals like Ed Davey, David Lammy and Paul Bristow as some sort of radical ultra fringe, singling out Israel for criticism, is well out on a limb. Even at the end of last Year Lammy was on TV defending the cutting off food, water and electricity stuff.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:54 - Apr 3 with 2062 viewsreusersfreekicks

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 by GlasgowBlue

And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]


Outstanding deflection and mis-direction.
Surely no one can argue that Israel is being permitted to kill and maim at will.
Last time i looked Hamas were prescibed as a terrorist organisation. Plus do we supply them with arms too? Thought not
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:57]
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 23:40 - Apr 3 with 1958 viewsWhos_blue

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 by GlasgowBlue

And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]


I always read your posts on this subject with interest Glassers.
I don't get this one.
It seems more like an instinctive rebuttal to to BDS than one of your more well thought out posts.
Others have mentioned deflection.
Whilst you very clearly make the point you don't excuse the IDF or Netenyahu, this one does have a "Yeah, but..." feel to it.
For balance, I would also say I don't really find the "murderous scum" comment particularly helpful either.
As has been mentioned, our leaders have been pitifully slow in condeming Israel's ongoing dismantling of Gaza and subsequent humanitarian disaster and if it takes the death of 3 innocent British citizens to bring about a change in their philosophy about this terrible conflict, then we can only hope their deaths may not be in vain.

Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 05:15 - Apr 4 with 1848 viewsChorleyBoy

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:54 - Apr 3 by reusersfreekicks

Outstanding deflection and mis-direction.
Surely no one can argue that Israel is being permitted to kill and maim at will.
Last time i looked Hamas were prescibed as a terrorist organisation. Plus do we supply them with arms too? Thought not
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:57]


The Israeli government government supports Hamas though as a matter of policy.

Anyone who wants to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas,” said Netanyahu at a Likud party meeting in 2019. “This is part of our strategy, to divide the Palestinians between those in Gaza and those in Judea and Samaria.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/21/the-netanyahu-doctrine-how-israels
[Post edited 4 Apr 5:31]
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 07:29 - Apr 4 with 1695 viewsbournemouthblue

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 05:15 - Apr 4 by ChorleyBoy

The Israeli government government supports Hamas though as a matter of policy.

Anyone who wants to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas,” said Netanyahu at a Likud party meeting in 2019. “This is part of our strategy, to divide the Palestinians between those in Gaza and those in Judea and Samaria.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/21/the-netanyahu-doctrine-how-israels
[Post edited 4 Apr 5:31]


I do wonder if they keep the leaders of Hamas in place for that reason, in the same way we did with the IRA

Let's be honest here, Israel has really c0cked this one up, they've got a bit too trigger happy nowadays and this has exposed them

I don't think it's a case of misidentification, they have have very sophisticated technology to identify targets and you can see how accurate it is

I think it's a case of shooting before asking the question at all and that's where their decision making process has fallen down here

----------

Further to this, I would firstly say Israel does have a right to defend itself. What it doesn't and shouldn't have is an excuse from a terrible tragedy to do whatever it likes with total impunity

The worm seems to be turning on Netanyahu himself now so this really adds fuel to the fire

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 07:39 - Apr 4 with 1673 viewsBlueBoots

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 by GlasgowBlue

And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]


Really inappropriate whataboutery even for you

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 07:52 - Apr 4 with 1645 viewsslump

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 by GlasgowBlue

And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]


This is pretty low man!

Israel are attacking and killing civilians daily and have targeted and killed aid workers.

Can't believe I'm sat here pointing this out.

UTT

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:01 - Apr 4 with 1618 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 by GlasgowBlue

And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]


Is there evidence though that the US and British militaries have deliberately targeted civilians, or indeed formulated a threshold of ‘acceptable civilian collateral damage’? Many of the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan were as a result of the interventions and ensuing instability (insurgency campaigns), rather than actively targeting civilians in the way the IDF have.

Have to say I think you are wrong on this one, absolutely the foreign policy of the US and UK can be criticised. But to suggest they have engaged in genocide in the way the IDF has simply isn’t true. For what it’s worth, I don’t think Hamas actions should have gone unanswered by Israel, but the callous targeting of civilians and aid workers is appalling.
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:11 - Apr 4 with 1593 viewsGlasgowBlue

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:01 - Apr 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna

Is there evidence though that the US and British militaries have deliberately targeted civilians, or indeed formulated a threshold of ‘acceptable civilian collateral damage’? Many of the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan were as a result of the interventions and ensuing instability (insurgency campaigns), rather than actively targeting civilians in the way the IDF have.

Have to say I think you are wrong on this one, absolutely the foreign policy of the US and UK can be criticised. But to suggest they have engaged in genocide in the way the IDF has simply isn’t true. For what it’s worth, I don’t think Hamas actions should have gone unanswered by Israel, but the callous targeting of civilians and aid workers is appalling.


I was referring specifically to Swansea’s post regarding the 7 British citizens killed in the Israeli strike on World Central Kitchen aid convoy, which appears to be a tragic mistake. Not the indiscriminate bombing and killing of innocent Palestinians which I have repeatedly condemned.

Edit for predictive text misspelling when typing Palestinians.
[Post edited 5 Apr 21:23]

Iron Lion Zion
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:14 - Apr 4 with 1591 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:11 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue

I was referring specifically to Swansea’s post regarding the 7 British citizens killed in the Israeli strike on World Central Kitchen aid convoy, which appears to be a tragic mistake. Not the indiscriminate bombing and killing of innocent Palestinians which I have repeatedly condemned.

Edit for predictive text misspelling when typing Palestinians.
[Post edited 5 Apr 21:23]


What is the evidence available to suggest that 3 independent strikes on 3 different well marked vehicles over a distance of 1 1/2 miles whose movements the IDF had been told about were a mistake.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:17 - Apr 4 with 1578 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:11 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue

I was referring specifically to Swansea’s post regarding the 7 British citizens killed in the Israeli strike on World Central Kitchen aid convoy, which appears to be a tragic mistake. Not the indiscriminate bombing and killing of innocent Palestinians which I have repeatedly condemned.

Edit for predictive text misspelling when typing Palestinians.
[Post edited 5 Apr 21:23]


Further, with regards to the policy that permits 100 civilian deaths if taking out a 'high value target' does this get included in your use of the word indiscriminate?

Edit...because imho this simply highlights what becomes acceptable once a population has been dehumanised in the eyes of another.
[Post edited 4 Apr 8:19]

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:20 - Apr 4 with 1568 viewsSwansea_Blue

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 22:18 - Apr 3 by GlasgowBlue

And without excusing the IDF or Netanyahu for a single second, how many people start threads on civilian deaths when it's the USA or the UK killing civilians, or take the time and trouble to reply calling Obama or Theresa May "murdering scum"?



I'm sure you will will post a link to it.
[Post edited 3 Apr 22:22]


The idea that people haven’t been critical of the UK and US governments over their support of violence won’t hold up to much scrutiny I’d have thought. Killing of civilians in Iraq and Afgan wars, supply of arms to Israel (sorry, I meant Saudi Arabia) to kill civilians in Yemen, etc. There were certainly plenty of threads on the former and there have been some on the latter. There’s been criticism of the government taking on Chinese contracts despite their awful human record and indirect support of other repressive regimes too.
[Post edited 4 Apr 10:55]

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:21 - Apr 4 with 1562 viewsHerbivore

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:11 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue

I was referring specifically to Swansea’s post regarding the 7 British citizens killed in the Israeli strike on World Central Kitchen aid convoy, which appears to be a tragic mistake. Not the indiscriminate bombing and killing of innocent Palestinians which I have repeatedly condemned.

Edit for predictive text misspelling when typing Palestinians.
[Post edited 5 Apr 21:23]


Not sure it is a tragic mistake, GB. Whether it was deliberate as the head of the organisation has claimed is another matter, but the most generous interpretation is that it is utterly careless and symptomatic of a wider approach of shoot first ask questions later which has characterised the IDF's conduct in Gaza. When you repeatedly kill people who are not your enemy (as when they managed to shoot some of the hostages earlier in the conflict) it is not a mistake, it is the direct result of the approach that they have chosen to take.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 10:02 - Apr 4 with 1477 viewsGlasgowBlue

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:17 - Apr 4 by BanksterDebtSlave

Further, with regards to the policy that permits 100 civilian deaths if taking out a 'high value target' does this get included in your use of the word indiscriminate?

Edit...because imho this simply highlights what becomes acceptable once a population has been dehumanised in the eyes of another.
[Post edited 4 Apr 8:19]


I would imagine every military leader and every head of state will have drawn up numbers of acceptable civilian casualties as part of their campaign. The UK government would have most certainly have put forward what they believed was an acceptable number of civilian casualties (and their own military personnel) in order to take down Sadam Hussain. This isn’t exclusive to Usraeli. Yet this war seems to be fought under a microscope like no other.

I was reading a piece from a military expert (non Israeli) who wrote that the ratio of civilian deaths to Hamas fighters was lower than the norm in modern warfare. And that even with Hamas using civilian areas and hospitals as human shields. I dint know enough to conclude whether that’s true or not but imo the language casually used like Swansea did is unprecedented. I’m still waiting for him to link his post where he referred to Obama as murdering scum.

I have constantly condemned Netanyahu during this conflict, but a narrative has taken over where one becomes an apologist for genocide if they try to look objectively at Hamas casualty numbers , amongst other things.

Edit. I wish I wasn’t rushing iutbof the door because I don’t think I have articulated the last paragraph as well as I would have wanted.
[Post edited 4 Apr 10:03]

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 10:51 - Apr 4 with 1393 viewsJohnTy

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:21 - Apr 4 by Herbivore

Not sure it is a tragic mistake, GB. Whether it was deliberate as the head of the organisation has claimed is another matter, but the most generous interpretation is that it is utterly careless and symptomatic of a wider approach of shoot first ask questions later which has characterised the IDF's conduct in Gaza. When you repeatedly kill people who are not your enemy (as when they managed to shoot some of the hostages earlier in the conflict) it is not a mistake, it is the direct result of the approach that they have chosen to take.


John Simpson suggests that the targeting of civilians by the IDF is not unusual.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 11:25 - Apr 4 with 1304 viewsWeWereZombies

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 10:51 - Apr 4 by JohnTy

John Simpson suggests that the targeting of civilians by the IDF is not unusual.



The testimony of just one individual who has been in the field reporting on the conflict is worth many millions of posting by all the keyboard warriors, isn't it.

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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 11:36 - Apr 4 with 1268 viewsChorleyBoy

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 08:11 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue

I was referring specifically to Swansea’s post regarding the 7 British citizens killed in the Israeli strike on World Central Kitchen aid convoy, which appears to be a tragic mistake. Not the indiscriminate bombing and killing of innocent Palestinians which I have repeatedly condemned.

Edit for predictive text misspelling when typing Palestinians.
[Post edited 5 Apr 21:23]


A "tragic mistake", really GB?


According to Haaretz, Israel has established “extermination zones” in Gaza where Israeli occupation soldiers are ordered to kill anything that moves: civilians, women, children, rescue and medical workers.



Do you think it was a "tragic mistake" that these extermination areas were created by the Israeli government, or is it a "tragic mistake" when any woman, child, rescue or medical worker entering these areas gets exterminated?
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 11:37 - Apr 4 with 1259 viewsredrickstuhaart

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 11:36 - Apr 4 by ChorleyBoy

A "tragic mistake", really GB?


According to Haaretz, Israel has established “extermination zones” in Gaza where Israeli occupation soldiers are ordered to kill anything that moves: civilians, women, children, rescue and medical workers.



Do you think it was a "tragic mistake" that these extermination areas were created by the Israeli government, or is it a "tragic mistake" when any woman, child, rescue or medical worker entering these areas gets exterminated?


Once might be a mistake. Twice unfortunate...
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Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 12:12 - Apr 4 with 1182 viewsChorleyBoy

Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 11:37 - Apr 4 by redrickstuhaart

Once might be a mistake. Twice unfortunate...


Any more than 2 mistakes then Israel becomes the biggest victim in this conflict.
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