| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? 15:33 - Apr 18 with 3813 views | DJR |
As someone with children aged 20 and 23 who might well take advantage, this is potentially great news. I doubt the Tories would go along with it, but let's hope Labour don't rule it out in an effort to appeal to the Red Wall. I rather fear they will though.
Commission proposes Brexit deal for 18 to 30 year olds
Lisa O'Carroll
The European Commission has proposed opening negotiations with the UK to allow free movement enjoyed before Brexit to millions of 18 to 30 year olds in a major post Brexit concession.
It said it will now seek approval from individual EU leaders to start the talks which will see one of the most controversial elements of Brexit, a block on the right to live in each others countries visa free, partially eliminated.
Under the envisaged agreement, both EU and UK citizens aged between 18 to 30 years would be able to stay for up to 4 years in the destination country, the European Commission said in a detailed statement.
“The objective would be to facilitate youth exchanges, making it easier for young EU citizens to travel, work and live in the UK, with reciprocity for young UK nationals in a member state,” the Commission said.
EDIT: Here's a link to the Commission's proposals.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_24_2109 [Post edited 18 Apr 15:35]
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 15:51 - Apr 18 with 2754 views | DarkBrandon |
Clearly promising news. I’m not sure this is a concession from the EU though. Is this anything we’ve wanted in the past any they’ve opposed ? |  | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 16:17 - Apr 18 with 2680 views | DJR |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 15:51 - Apr 18 by DarkBrandon |
Clearly promising news. I’m not sure this is a concession from the EU though. Is this anything we’ve wanted in the past any they’ve opposed ? |
Given the main object of Brexit was the removal of free movement, I can't believe this is anything Johnson would have asked for.
I am sure the EU would have been amenable to closer ties, and this might have included this, but we seemed to favour threatening no deal, hardly a way to "win friends and influence people", as Dale Carnegie put it. [Post edited 18 Apr 16:19]
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 16:27 - Apr 18 with 2626 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 15:51 - Apr 18 by DarkBrandon |
Clearly promising news. I’m not sure this is a concession from the EU though. Is this anything we’ve wanted in the past any they’ve opposed ? |
It's probably better news for the EU than it is for the UK from a brain drain perspective given the general apathy towards this country at the moment by a lot of those in that cohort. |  | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 16:32 - Apr 18 with 2596 views | Keno |
some of us have free movement within the EU
May not be perfect but Im Irish which is very much the same thing |  |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:11 - Apr 18 with 2492 views | ElderGrizzly |
This is excellent news and a good first step to getting some freedoms back which I'm sure the next Labour Government will grasp with both hands!
Will be interesting to see how the rabid right spin this of course. |  | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:13 - Apr 18 with 2474 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 16:32 - Apr 18 by Keno |
some of us have free movement within the EU
May not be perfect but Im Irish which is very much the same thing |
Ah yes, but in exchange you are swamped with 90 million Turkish immigrants and no one speaks your language do they? |  |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:14 - Apr 18 with 2470 views | Sarge |
Would be even better if they could expand that to either:
a) the millions of us that didn’t vote for this car crash
b) everyone under the age of 65 which pretty much encompasses all of a) |  | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:18 - Apr 18 with 2439 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:14 - Apr 18 by Sarge |
Would be even better if they could expand that to either:
a) the millions of us that didn’t vote for this car crash
b) everyone under the age of 65 which pretty much encompasses all of a) |
The simplest way to get back all the benefits (including for those that for whatever reason voted to leave) the best thing would be to re-join. Since that would also reopen the gaping wounds in the Conservative/Reform/Brexit/UKIP/etc Party, it would probably be a good move for any other party to enact too. There would be no need for another referendum if it was put in their manifesto as a policy, either. | |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:36 - Apr 18 with 2351 views | bazza |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:11 - Apr 18 by ElderGrizzly |
This is excellent news and a good first step to getting some freedoms back which I'm sure the next Labour Government will grasp with both hands!
Will be interesting to see how the rabid right spin this of course. |
I really don’t see why free movement is a good thing? As opposed to applying for a visa, actually having a job or offer of employment, then going through the correct channels, free movement means people can come here, with no background checks, leaves it open to any Tom dick or Harry coming, surely we should just say, visas up-to 4 years with correct checks on the person, offer of employment and enough money to support yourself for up to 3 months. Or if it’s for travel, 90 days is plenty enough, again with applying for a visa.. I don’t see what the problem is with having to apply for a visa.? [Post edited 18 Apr 17:39]
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:44 - Apr 18 with 2301 views | BlueBadger |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:36 - Apr 18 by bazza |
I really don’t see why free movement is a good thing? As opposed to applying for a visa, actually having a job or offer of employment, then going through the correct channels, free movement means people can come here, with no background checks, leaves it open to any Tom dick or Harry coming, surely we should just say, visas up-to 4 years with correct checks on the person, offer of employment and enough money to support yourself for up to 3 months. Or if it’s for travel, 90 days is plenty enough, again with applying for a visa.. I don’t see what the problem is with having to apply for a visa.? [Post edited 18 Apr 17:39]
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Now we have to have working visas for EU nationals we've effectively voted ourselves out of several markets for potential employees. Frequently in highly skilled industries.
Nurse recruitment from the EU, for example, dropped to effectively nothing within a year of the 'yes, we'd love to have blue passports and no more foreigners' vote.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/12/96-drop-in-eu-nurses-registering [Post edited 18 Apr 17:47]
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:44 - Apr 18 with 2295 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:36 - Apr 18 by bazza |
I really don’t see why free movement is a good thing? As opposed to applying for a visa, actually having a job or offer of employment, then going through the correct channels, free movement means people can come here, with no background checks, leaves it open to any Tom dick or Harry coming, surely we should just say, visas up-to 4 years with correct checks on the person, offer of employment and enough money to support yourself for up to 3 months. Or if it’s for travel, 90 days is plenty enough, again with applying for a visa.. I don’t see what the problem is with having to apply for a visa.? [Post edited 18 Apr 17:39]
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What problem does the visas solve? How has the end of free movement within the EU improved life?
It is the inconvenience and cost to those who want the convenience to travel, live and work within another EU country that is the problem. I know the media paints this country as a panacea that all undesirables are determined to come to and spoil but actually free movement brought opportunities that simply are no longer there for citizens and employers in this country. | |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:57 - Apr 18 with 2223 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
But what about their dogs? |  |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 18:47 - Apr 18 with 2061 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:13 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Ah yes, but in exchange you are swamped with 90 million Turkish immigrants and no one speaks your language do they? |
Níl sé shin ceart. |  | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 20:34 - Apr 18 with 1900 views | DJR |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:14 - Apr 18 by Sarge |
Would be even better if they could expand that to either:
a) the millions of us that didn’t vote for this car crash
b) everyone under the age of 65 which pretty much encompasses all of a) |
My 89 year old mother voted to remain, and so would my father had he still been alive. And my in-laws in their 80s did the same. Then again they are or were from areas which voted to Remain and where inward and outward migration has been common since Victorian times, if not earlier (Liverpool and Scotland). As a result there was in my view much less xenophobia than in many areas of England. [Post edited 18 Apr 21:00]
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 20:43 - Apr 18 with 1865 views | DJR |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:36 - Apr 18 by bazza |
I really don’t see why free movement is a good thing? As opposed to applying for a visa, actually having a job or offer of employment, then going through the correct channels, free movement means people can come here, with no background checks, leaves it open to any Tom dick or Harry coming, surely we should just say, visas up-to 4 years with correct checks on the person, offer of employment and enough money to support yourself for up to 3 months. Or if it’s for travel, 90 days is plenty enough, again with applying for a visa.. I don’t see what the problem is with having to apply for a visa.? [Post edited 18 Apr 17:39]
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Leaving aside that we have had record net migration since Brexit (much of it from outside the UK), your comment fails to take into account the limitations on our own citizens.
My son, next academic, will be studying in the EU for one year of his course, and has to go through the time-consuming and far-from-straightforward process of obtaining a visa, something that would have been completely unnecessary before Brexit.
In addition, my daughter, a teacher, would like, when she has more experience, to teach at an international school in the EU, but since Brexit such jobs are only open to EU citizens because schools don't want to go to all the effort and expense of obtaining visas.
Of course, you counter by saying she could go to Australia or the US, but she doesn't want to be that far from the UK.
And let's not forget those (often of limited means like many in places like the southern Costa Blanca) who will never be able to move to places like Spain to work or retire. [Post edited 18 Apr 20:44]
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 20:50 - Apr 18 with 1820 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 18:47 - Apr 18 by Eireannach_gorm |
Níl sé shin ceart. |
Maith a dúirt an fear sin. |  |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 21:30 - Apr 18 with 1732 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 18:47 - Apr 18 by Eireannach_gorm |
Níl sé shin ceart. |
Je non parlez le Irish rien. | |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 21:36 - Apr 18 with 1697 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 20:34 - Apr 18 by DJR |
My 89 year old mother voted to remain, and so would my father had he still been alive. And my in-laws in their 80s did the same. Then again they are or were from areas which voted to Remain and where inward and outward migration has been common since Victorian times, if not earlier (Liverpool and Scotland). As a result there was in my view much less xenophobia than in many areas of England. [Post edited 18 Apr 21:00]
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There is no simple way to compartmentalise who was and is remain or leave. My mother was a typical staunch Conservative voter who was educated enough to see what the experts were saying and was ardent remain. It was many from a traditional staunchly Labour background who fell for the "had enough of experts" and were largely supportive of leave (but even that is trying to compartmentalise groups still).
Ultimately the role of government is to govern for the best of the country and not to pander to popular opinion. It was because Cameron hoped to do the first whilst still doing the second that he realised he had to resign after he lost the vote on the referendum. | |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 08:19 - Apr 19 with 1432 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Clearly Brexit is so damaging to the UK (not to mention being utterly impossible in Northern Ireland) that it will be quietly reversed in degrees in the years to come. The untenable situation in Northern Ireland will also ensure the Brits are back in the single market in the next decade too.
What intrigues me is that nobody seems to have joined up the dots on Britain’s stinking rivers, lack of social housing, crumbling infrastructure - and another blinkered bit of Conservative self-harming ideology …. Thatcher’s privatisation piracy. | |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:23 - Apr 19 with 1381 views | noggin |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 08:19 - Apr 19 by ElephantintheRoom |
Clearly Brexit is so damaging to the UK (not to mention being utterly impossible in Northern Ireland) that it will be quietly reversed in degrees in the years to come. The untenable situation in Northern Ireland will also ensure the Brits are back in the single market in the next decade too.
What intrigues me is that nobody seems to have joined up the dots on Britain’s stinking rivers, lack of social housing, crumbling infrastructure - and another blinkered bit of Conservative self-harming ideology …. Thatcher’s privatisation piracy. |
"What intrigues me is that nobody seems to have joined up the dots on Britain’s stinking rivers, lack of social housing, crumbling infrastructure - and another blinkered bit of Conservative self-harming ideology …. Thatcher’s privatisation piracy."
I think everyone joined those dots years ago. |  |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:28 - Apr 19 with 1372 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 17:36 - Apr 18 by bazza |
I really don’t see why free movement is a good thing? As opposed to applying for a visa, actually having a job or offer of employment, then going through the correct channels, free movement means people can come here, with no background checks, leaves it open to any Tom dick or Harry coming, surely we should just say, visas up-to 4 years with correct checks on the person, offer of employment and enough money to support yourself for up to 3 months. Or if it’s for travel, 90 days is plenty enough, again with applying for a visa.. I don’t see what the problem is with having to apply for a visa.? [Post edited 18 Apr 17:39]
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This is the problem, freedom of movement isn't just a free for all as spun by Farage and his ilk.
There are still 'checks', as there are when we used to be able to go to the EU 'freely'. | | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:31 - Apr 19 with 1368 views | Leaky |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:23 - Apr 19 by noggin |
"What intrigues me is that nobody seems to have joined up the dots on Britain’s stinking rivers, lack of social housing, crumbling infrastructure - and another blinkered bit of Conservative self-harming ideology …. Thatcher’s privatisation piracy."
I think everyone joined those dots years ago. |
Well we may well find out soon, when this mob are voted out and next mob are voted in. |  | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:34 - Apr 19 with 1344 views | noggin |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:28 - Apr 19 by ElderGrizzly |
This is the problem, freedom of movement isn't just a free for all as spun by Farage and his ilk.
There are still 'checks', as there are when we used to be able to go to the EU 'freely'. |
Indeed. When I moved here under FOM, I still had to prove that I had the means to support myself. | |
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| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:34 - Apr 19 with 1344 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 09:31 - Apr 19 by Leaky |
Well we may well find out soon, when this mob are voted out and next mob are voted in. |
The Tories are laying 'traps' all over the place for a Labour Government though.
No money, highest ever debt etc.
For example, the Tories childcare policy for 2 and over announced with big fanfare needs 85,000 more places to meet demand in the next 12 months and 40,000 new staff.
Which is typical of Tory policy. Name it, don't fund it then accuse the opposition of not supporting it when they point out the flaws. | | | |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 10:50 - Apr 19 with 1242 views | DJR |
| Free movement for 18-30 year olds? on 21:36 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
There is no simple way to compartmentalise who was and is remain or leave. My mother was a typical staunch Conservative voter who was educated enough to see what the experts were saying and was ardent remain. It was many from a traditional staunchly Labour background who fell for the "had enough of experts" and were largely supportive of leave (but even that is trying to compartmentalise groups still).
Ultimately the role of government is to govern for the best of the country and not to pander to popular opinion. It was because Cameron hoped to do the first whilst still doing the second that he realised he had to resign after he lost the vote on the referendum. |
Interestingly, the traditional staunchly Labour background of Leave voters doesn't really hold up to scrutiny in places like Scotland, Liverpool and Manchester, places with amongst the highest levels of deprivation in the UK. And it's interesting to note that the vote for Leave in the East (never fertile Labour territory) was about three percentage points higher than in the North West. [Post edited 19 Apr 10:51]
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