| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. 12:34 - Jun 3 with 11489 views | itfcjoe |
My view on squad currently with retained list well overdue - i.e. which over 21 players will be here next season and offered a deal
GK (3)
Hladky, Walton, Slicker
FBs (3)
Davis, Tuanzebe, Clarke
CBs (5)
Burgess, Woolfenden, Edmundson, Ndaba, Baggott
CMs (4+1)
Morsy, Taylor, Luongo, El Mizouni, (Humphreys U21)
FWs (4/5)
Burns, Chaplin, Broadhead, Harness, (Jackson - contract status not announced)
STs (4)
Hirst, Al-Hamadi, Ladapo, Ahadme
Total of 23 senior players plus Kayden Jackson (unsure) and Cameron Humphreys (U21)
Think it's fairly safe to say the following players will be heading out on loan again, or sold for a fee/mutually terminated (i.e. weren't close to being good enough for us last season)
Elkan Baggott, Corrie Ndaba, Idris El Mizouni, Freddie Ladapo and Gassan Ahadme
If we then exclude Jackson from this, it leaves us with 18 senior players, so for me transfer business this summer looks like this:
Additions
- 7 new signings to fill the gaps to take us to 25 men
Senior players departing (3)
- Walton, Edmundson and Harness at most risk of going as not regular starters
- If any of these leave it will see them replaced on a 'one in-one out' nightclub door policy
Further loans (2)
- Slicker and Al-Hamadi may be ones to go out on loan
- As above if this happens it will be the nightclub door policy
Other points of interest
- Cam Humphreys may be retained as 26th man as still an U21
- Kayden Jackson may get a new deal and then one less addition
- Does Jack Taylor fall into one of the above 2 categories when looking at game time last year?
Overall view
- 7 new signings, with potential for up to 5 more
- The '5 more' may be split across the summer and January transfer windows |  |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:56 - Jun 3 with 1561 views | SouthfieldsBlue |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:24 - Jun 3 by itfcjoe |
I think Harness can play that role in the squad, and is contracted for next season....so reality is pay off Harness, or pay some of his wages for him to go out on loan and pay Jackson on top of this, or just let Harness do that role for a season.
If their contract situations were reserved then I couldn't see us making any attempt to keep Harness at Jackson's expense and now vice versa |
I don't think Harness can play that role in the squad. McKenna clearly likes to use the whole squad, and even the 24th/25th man will get game time. Big difference for me is Harness will be all around not good enough for the Prem, as he wasn't for a top half Championship team hence his dramatic fall off in minutes towards the end of the season.
Jackson, whilst being worse in some attributes than Harness, still has his elite level pace, which meant in certain situations he was still the go to player all the way through the season and got minutes the whole way through. For me, Jackson it way more likely to be usable in that one specific way in the Prem, than Harness is to be in any situation. Given we are only looking for a 24th/25th man here who can be a very specific tool, Jackson wins that battle hands down. |  | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:57 - Jun 3 with 1545 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:24 - Jun 3 by itfcjoe |
I think Harness can play that role in the squad, and is contracted for next season....so reality is pay off Harness, or pay some of his wages for him to go out on loan and pay Jackson on top of this, or just let Harness do that role for a season.
If their contract situations were reserved then I couldn't see us making any attempt to keep Harness at Jackson's expense and now vice versa |
Jackson is the choice for me.
I don't think Harness has any specific quality that would be up to Premier standard. He's a good, versatile League 1 / Championship player.
Whilst Jackson has pace. I don't feel he is as consistent a player as Harness, and arguably as a footballer not as good all-round, but that pace could be useful in the Premier League in bursts as an occasional sub, or to fill-in in emergencies. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:01 - Jun 3 with 1509 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:56 - Jun 3 by SouthfieldsBlue |
I don't think Harness can play that role in the squad. McKenna clearly likes to use the whole squad, and even the 24th/25th man will get game time. Big difference for me is Harness will be all around not good enough for the Prem, as he wasn't for a top half Championship team hence his dramatic fall off in minutes towards the end of the season.
Jackson, whilst being worse in some attributes than Harness, still has his elite level pace, which meant in certain situations he was still the go to player all the way through the season and got minutes the whole way through. For me, Jackson it way more likely to be usable in that one specific way in the Prem, than Harness is to be in any situation. Given we are only looking for a 24th/25th man here who can be a very specific tool, Jackson wins that battle hands down. |
We think alike... | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:07 - Jun 3 with 1474 views | itfcjoe |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:01 - Jun 3 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
We think alike... |
But do you sign Jackson up for another deal and then have to likely pick up a chunk of Harness' wages for him to be in that squad role? | |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:09 - Jun 3 with 1450 views | portmanking |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:07 - Jun 3 by itfcjoe |
But do you sign Jackson up for another deal and then have to likely pick up a chunk of Harness' wages for him to be in that squad role? |
I'm just not sure either are going to be here TBH.
Clive Baker listed 13 core players that are almost dead certs to remain. I think they're the only ones likely to be here come end of Aug (maybe Jan). That's still a very solid core of the players who've stormed through the leagues. But we do need to be semi-ruthless at this stage. It's something Norwich were never good at (or even cared about?) but it bit them on the backside. We need to improve the quality of our squad players just as much as our key players - hence the likes of Flemming at £4m-£5m looking like a relative bargain. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:11 - Jun 3 with 1439 views | SouthfieldsBlue |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:07 - Jun 3 by itfcjoe |
But do you sign Jackson up for another deal and then have to likely pick up a chunk of Harness' wages for him to be in that squad role? |
For me, 100% - Harness would never get used so I think we are eating that coast in any scenario, Jackson I think would, and would provide value I'm key situations. The question is then is if there is someone you could that is available and willing for that combined cost, which we just don't have the answer to. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:15 - Jun 3 with 1414 views | Nomore4 |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:11 - Jun 3 by SouthfieldsBlue |
For me, 100% - Harness would never get used so I think we are eating that coast in any scenario, Jackson I think would, and would provide value I'm key situations. The question is then is if there is someone you could that is available and willing for that combined cost, which we just don't have the answer to. |
An average Premier League squad player contract is £30k per week…..is Jackson worth that kind of money? | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:17 - Jun 3 with 1408 views | itfcjoe |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:09 - Jun 3 by portmanking |
I'm just not sure either are going to be here TBH.
Clive Baker listed 13 core players that are almost dead certs to remain. I think they're the only ones likely to be here come end of Aug (maybe Jan). That's still a very solid core of the players who've stormed through the leagues. But we do need to be semi-ruthless at this stage. It's something Norwich were never good at (or even cared about?) but it bit them on the backside. We need to improve the quality of our squad players just as much as our key players - hence the likes of Flemming at £4m-£5m looking like a relative bargain. |
Cive's 13 are the same as my 13 from the OP too....!
I just don't see how you shift all of the other 5 - it takes time and mental bandwidth plus will be a cost to us on both ends of things (ie to shift them and to bring in their replacements).
I think 2 of those 5 will potentially go one way or another, maybe 3 - but all 5 is too much fo a stretch | |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:19 - Jun 3 with 1390 views | SouthfieldsBlue |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:15 - Jun 3 by Nomore4 |
An average Premier League squad player contract is £30k per week…..is Jackson worth that kind of money? |
I suspect he could be signed for less than that. But I don't think the question is he worth that. We know McKenna likes that squad role, so there will be someone in it. So the question is there someone who can and is willing to do it for a similar price? | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:21 - Jun 3 with 1385 views | portmanking |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:17 - Jun 3 by itfcjoe |
Cive's 13 are the same as my 13 from the OP too....!
I just don't see how you shift all of the other 5 - it takes time and mental bandwidth plus will be a cost to us on both ends of things (ie to shift them and to bring in their replacements).
I think 2 of those 5 will potentially go one way or another, maybe 3 - but all 5 is too much fo a stretch |
Ha, apologies - in that case, I make you right on that front too.
But I just don't see why finding a loan move for Harness would take up too much mental bandwidth? We've got 3 whole months to plan our transfers. Jackson is out of contract, so he's an easy goodbye. You only have to look at the broad brush we gave to our squad in 2021 to see that overhauls are possible - not that we need an 'overhaul' per se. More of an 'upgrade'. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:24 - Jun 3 with 1358 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:15 - Jun 3 by Nomore4 |
An average Premier League squad player contract is £30k per week…..is Jackson worth that kind of money? |
We likely wouldn't need to offer Jackson anything close to average premier league money. We would probably need to offer him as much or a touch more than he could get elsewhere which is a fraction of that number you quoted.
Don't get me wrong, there's a good chance he moves on and if he does so its hard to argue to hard that its not the right thing for all parties, but I do think there's a bit of merit in him providing some continuity and sticking around for another year if the money was sensible. |  | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:25 - Jun 3 with 1352 views | textbackup |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:10 - Jun 3 by tractorboy1978 |
Marcus Harness is a Coventry fan I believe. Straight swap for Sheaf seems fair. |
Yeah someone like a Harness… or depending on how much we want a certain player, dangle the carrot of Chaplin… won’t be popular I know (but I see him possibly struggling, even though I love him to bits) |  |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:30 - Jun 3 with 1318 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:25 - Jun 3 by textbackup |
Yeah someone like a Harness… or depending on how much we want a certain player, dangle the carrot of Chaplin… won’t be popular I know (but I see him possibly struggling, even though I love him to bits) |
Couldn't disagree more about Chaplin. Think he's one that will really step up and contribute even if that is as a squad player and less as a starter. And he's a huge character in the dressing room too. He'd pretty much be bottom of the list of players I'd be looking to move on. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:32 - Jun 3 with 1296 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:17 - Jun 3 by itfcjoe |
Cive's 13 are the same as my 13 from the OP too....!
I just don't see how you shift all of the other 5 - it takes time and mental bandwidth plus will be a cost to us on both ends of things (ie to shift them and to bring in their replacements).
I think 2 of those 5 will potentially go one way or another, maybe 3 - but all 5 is too much fo a stretch |
Mine's more succinct thought innit Joe.
I just think for all the talk of how our squad looks and how its shaping up, there's 13 that are nailed on to be in it. 7 up for debate. The rest nailed on to not be in it. I really don't see any deviation from that happening barring a silly offer for someone.
With that in mind the question is then what becomes of those 7 in the middle, they're the decisions that need to be made, and once that's resolved then where it leaves us short. In reality its probably more fluid than that, in that its probably more a case of who is available and deals to be done, and therefore who do we then keep.
Priorities for me are goalkeeper (perhaps controversially, but I think we need a new #1), Right back for sure with Clarke as understudy, central midfield for sure, then at least 3, perhaps 4 further forward, ideally a #9, #10 and wide man. Hutchinson obviously the strong preference to be in that group. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:38 - Jun 3 with 1270 views | portmanking |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:32 - Jun 3 by _clive_baker_ |
Mine's more succinct thought innit Joe.
I just think for all the talk of how our squad looks and how its shaping up, there's 13 that are nailed on to be in it. 7 up for debate. The rest nailed on to not be in it. I really don't see any deviation from that happening barring a silly offer for someone.
With that in mind the question is then what becomes of those 7 in the middle, they're the decisions that need to be made, and once that's resolved then where it leaves us short. In reality its probably more fluid than that, in that its probably more a case of who is available and deals to be done, and therefore who do we then keep.
Priorities for me are goalkeeper (perhaps controversially, but I think we need a new #1), Right back for sure with Clarke as understudy, central midfield for sure, then at least 3, perhaps 4 further forward, ideally a #9, #10 and wide man. Hutchinson obviously the strong preference to be in that group. |
I just feel there's stronger arguments to let all 7 of the 'middle' players go than stay IMO:
Edmundson - Needs a season or two playing 40+ games after largely injury-hit spell here
Jackson - Simply not a PL player, not matter how fantastic his character is
Humphreys - Needs a really positive season loan having been in and around our squad mentality
Walton - Like Edmundson, won't be happy warming the bench again
Harness - If he has any ambition, he won't be happy playing the Aluko role at 28 y/o
AAH - The one of the seven who could benefit most from sticking around but I still feel a Champ loan at 15-20 goals in 24/25 would leave him ready to truly compete in 25/26
Slicker - Difficult to know if he's a Prem prospect or not, just because he's pretty good with his feet | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:45 - Jun 3 with 1238 views | MK1 |
3-4 starters. RB, CM, AM, CF.
5-6 squad. |  |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:01 - Jun 3 with 1205 views | Herbivore |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:38 - Jun 3 by portmanking |
I just feel there's stronger arguments to let all 7 of the 'middle' players go than stay IMO:
Edmundson - Needs a season or two playing 40+ games after largely injury-hit spell here
Jackson - Simply not a PL player, not matter how fantastic his character is
Humphreys - Needs a really positive season loan having been in and around our squad mentality
Walton - Like Edmundson, won't be happy warming the bench again
Harness - If he has any ambition, he won't be happy playing the Aluko role at 28 y/o
AAH - The one of the seven who could benefit most from sticking around but I still feel a Champ loan at 15-20 goals in 24/25 would leave him ready to truly compete in 25/26
Slicker - Difficult to know if he's a Prem prospect or not, just because he's pretty good with his feet |
If you let Al-Hamadi go it means we need to sign two number 9s rather than one, and one of them will have to be content to be third choice. Not seeing it myself. |  |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:03 - Jun 3 with 1195 views | portmanking |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:01 - Jun 3 by Herbivore |
If you let Al-Hamadi go it means we need to sign two number 9s rather than one, and one of them will have to be content to be third choice. Not seeing it myself. |
Yeah I hear you. It's the one out of the 7 that I can't quite square in my head. Although an experienced PL loan striker might be handy? Or even a hot prospect from Europe on loan (since overseas loans don't count). | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:06 - Jun 3 with 1174 views | Herbivore |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:03 - Jun 3 by portmanking |
Yeah I hear you. It's the one out of the 7 that I can't quite square in my head. Although an experienced PL loan striker might be handy? Or even a hot prospect from Europe on loan (since overseas loans don't count). |
But neither of those types of player are going to be up for joining a newly promoted side to sit on our bench and be third choice, it's just not going to happen. And their parent clubs wouldn't be loaning them to us for that to happen either. | |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:12 - Jun 3 with 1133 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:57 - Jun 3 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
Jackson is the choice for me.
I don't think Harness has any specific quality that would be up to Premier standard. He's a good, versatile League 1 / Championship player.
Whilst Jackson has pace. I don't feel he is as consistent a player as Harness, and arguably as a footballer not as good all-round, but that pace could be useful in the Premier League in bursts as an occasional sub, or to fill-in in emergencies. |
I was wrong. Again! | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:14 - Jun 3 with 1122 views | portmanking |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:12 - Jun 3 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
I was wrong. Again! |
Come on. Kieran hasn't signed a new lucrative 4 year deal to cling on to deadwood. Collectively, we need to think bigger now. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:17 - Jun 3 with 1103 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 16:38 - Jun 3 by portmanking |
I just feel there's stronger arguments to let all 7 of the 'middle' players go than stay IMO:
Edmundson - Needs a season or two playing 40+ games after largely injury-hit spell here
Jackson - Simply not a PL player, not matter how fantastic his character is
Humphreys - Needs a really positive season loan having been in and around our squad mentality
Walton - Like Edmundson, won't be happy warming the bench again
Harness - If he has any ambition, he won't be happy playing the Aluko role at 28 y/o
AAH - The one of the seven who could benefit most from sticking around but I still feel a Champ loan at 15-20 goals in 24/25 would leave him ready to truly compete in 25/26
Slicker - Difficult to know if he's a Prem prospect or not, just because he's pretty good with his feet |
I see where you're coming from, but I see it as a more phased approach then all in 1 window. Our strength is our unity and the togetherness which has been built up over so long, I don't think it can be underestimated and changing too much too soon could be damaging.
Ultimately I think it'll depend on the business we do. In a world where we do deals for Hutchinson, Sarmiento and Stansfield for example then Harness probably moves on too. If 2 top #9's come available that we love the look of I would imagine we would do it and AAH goes on loan. But we won't put the cart before the horse on too many of those decisions I wouldn't have thought. Immediately its the out of contract ones like Jackson & Walton that we need to make calls on. Walton's contract probably only makes sense to extend if we see him staying in the squad, I don't see much opportunity to do so with a view to selling him as the demand presumably won't be that high and the couple of hundred grand we would get for him is probably eaten up between July and September. | | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:31 - Jun 3 with 1063 views | textbackup |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 15:17 - Jun 3 by Herbivore |
It's not that unlikely. |
Seems it was | |
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| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:38 - Jun 3 with 1028 views | JakeITFC |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:06 - Jun 3 by Herbivore |
But neither of those types of player are going to be up for joining a newly promoted side to sit on our bench and be third choice, it's just not going to happen. And their parent clubs wouldn't be loaning them to us for that to happen either. |
Kieffer Moore maybe does? Happy in a Prem horses for courses type role perhaps. |  | | |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:42 - Jun 3 with 1015 views | Herbivore |
| Transfers this summer, how many? State of Squad. on 17:38 - Jun 3 by JakeITFC |
Kieffer Moore maybe does? Happy in a Prem horses for courses type role perhaps. |
Surely he'd just stay at Bournemouth though if that's the ask of him? And is he worth £30-40k a week on loan to play the odd 10 minutes here and there? I'd rather keep and develop Al-Hamadi personally. | |
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