| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:29 - Jun 11 with 3072 views | J2BLUE |
Bold move when he was in the shadow cabinet. |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:37 - Jun 11 with 3040 views | blueasfook |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:29 - Jun 11 by J2BLUE |
Bold move when he was in the shadow cabinet. |
Well that is certainly true Jitters. And he actually praised the manifesto at the time. What is it about the labour party people like? Is it the dishonesty? The backstabbing? The marginalisation of socialists within the party? |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:41 - Jun 11 with 2990 views | Whos_blue |
I don't like it, but it's a very clever tactic by Starmer.
Puts more distance between him and JC and underpins the change he continuously attests to.
It also brings a subtle reference to the trashing JC''s Labour took at the polls and how Sunak's policies should face the same fate.
As I said. Clever. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:42 - Jun 11 with 2977 views | J2BLUE |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:37 - Jun 11 by blueasfook |
Well that is certainly true Jitters. And he actually praised the manifesto at the time. What is it about the labour party people like? Is it the dishonesty? The backstabbing? The marginalisation of socialists within the party? |
Ha. I love the new avatar. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:45 - Jun 11 with 2974 views | blueasfook |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:41 - Jun 11 by Whos_blue |
I don't like it, but it's a very clever tactic by Starmer.
Puts more distance between him and JC and underpins the change he continuously attests to.
It also brings a subtle reference to the trashing JC''s Labour took at the polls and how Sunak's policies should face the same fate.
As I said. Clever. |
Not when you consider that Keir Starmer promised not to trash Corbyn's leadership if he got elected leader. Shows him not to be a man who keeps his word. I don't think that's particularly clever at all when you're going against a party who the public are fed up with because of broken promises. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:46 - Jun 11 with 2946 views | blueasfook |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:42 - Jun 11 by J2BLUE |
Ha. I love the new avatar. |
TY hun x | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:51 - Jun 11 with 2903 views | Whos_blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:45 - Jun 11 by blueasfook |
Not when you consider that Keir Starmer promised not to trash Corbyn's leadership if he got elected leader. Shows him not to be a man who keeps his word. I don't think that's particularly clever at all when you're going against a party who the public are fed up with because of broken promises. |
Disagree Blueas.
I'm not Starmer's biggest fan, but he and his strategists will know how far they can push this now.
I think the tories are so downtrodden and doomed now that it doesn't matter too much to large parts of the electorate what Starmer says.
His focus is winning, particularly the old red wall voters who deserted JC in the last election.
This isn't an off the cuff comment. It's been carefully considered.
That's why I think it's clever. | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:59 - Jun 11 with 2868 views | blueasfook |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:51 - Jun 11 by Whos_blue |
Disagree Blueas.
I'm not Starmer's biggest fan, but he and his strategists will know how far they can push this now.
I think the tories are so downtrodden and doomed now that it doesn't matter too much to large parts of the electorate what Starmer says.
His focus is winning, particularly the old red wall voters who deserted JC in the last election.
This isn't an off the cuff comment. It's been carefully considered.
That's why I think it's clever. |
Well yes, he knows trashing Corbyn will win him back voters who deserted the party during that time. He probably saw a surge in support when Corbyn was expelled from the party and so now attacking poor old Jezza is seen as fair game. My point is that people looking for a bit of honesty in a new govt aren't going to be inspired by his about turn with regards to what he said to get elected. I wouldn't be so smug if I was Starmer in thinking it doesn't matter what he says. There are other non-tory options people can vote for. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 17:41 - Jun 11 with 2722 views | Whos_blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:59 - Jun 11 by blueasfook |
Well yes, he knows trashing Corbyn will win him back voters who deserted the party during that time. He probably saw a surge in support when Corbyn was expelled from the party and so now attacking poor old Jezza is seen as fair game. My point is that people looking for a bit of honesty in a new govt aren't going to be inspired by his about turn with regards to what he said to get elected. I wouldn't be so smug if I was Starmer in thinking it doesn't matter what he says. There are other non-tory options people can vote for. |
I agree.
I haven't been impressed with his position on Gaza. Nor was I impressed with his role in the Abbott debacle either.
Starmer isn't really my man, but he's on his way to trounce the tories. I just hope we see a little bit of slight lean to the left at least at some point. | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 17:47 - Jun 11 with 2702 views | blueasfook |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 17:41 - Jun 11 by Whos_blue |
I agree.
I haven't been impressed with his position on Gaza. Nor was I impressed with his role in the Abbott debacle either.
Starmer isn't really my man, but he's on his way to trounce the tories. I just hope we see a little bit of slight lean to the left at least at some point. |
I'm not impressed either. But I guess he's a better option then the tories who just about everyone wants rid of. It will be interesting to see if right wing parties gain support in our election as they have in recent European elections. I think a lot of disaffected tory voters may go for Reform. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 17:51 - Jun 11 with 2654 views | BloomBlue |
I was confused by that comment as doesn't that give people the opportunity to attack him with it proves that Starmer was happy to lie to the public at the last GE, and he now admits it? Didn't he say on many occasions at the last GE the Labour manifesto was fully costed and now he's saying it never was. Doesn't that give opposition the chance to argue, you cannot believe or trust Starmer on anything he says |  | | |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 17:55 - Jun 11 with 2619 views | blueasfook |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 17:51 - Jun 11 by BloomBlue |
I was confused by that comment as doesn't that give people the opportunity to attack him with it proves that Starmer was happy to lie to the public at the last GE, and he now admits it? Didn't he say on many occasions at the last GE the Labour manifesto was fully costed and now he's saying it never was. Doesn't that give opposition the chance to argue, you cannot believe or trust Starmer on anything he says |
Agree. I think he's scored a bit of an own goal there. Sunak will definitely jump on it to use against him. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:00 - Jun 11 with 2574 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 17:51 - Jun 11 by BloomBlue |
I was confused by that comment as doesn't that give people the opportunity to attack him with it proves that Starmer was happy to lie to the public at the last GE, and he now admits it? Didn't he say on many occasions at the last GE the Labour manifesto was fully costed and now he's saying it never was. Doesn't that give opposition the chance to argue, you cannot believe or trust Starmer on anything he says |
The original manifesto was costed, I think. But then they made some more commitments to the tune of at least £60BN over the term of parliament. Small beer in the grand scheme of things given that the government are currently borrowing £20BN per month.
It probably does give an angle of attack, but far too much emphasis is placed on it imo. The costings can only ever be estimates. I wish people would focus on whether policies are likely to achieve good outcomes and for whom. |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:05 - Jun 11 with 2539 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:00 - Jun 11 by Swansea_Blue |
The original manifesto was costed, I think. But then they made some more commitments to the tune of at least £60BN over the term of parliament. Small beer in the grand scheme of things given that the government are currently borrowing £20BN per month.
It probably does give an angle of attack, but far too much emphasis is placed on it imo. The costings can only ever be estimates. I wish people would focus on whether policies are likely to achieve good outcomes and for whom. |
It wasn't fully costed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50585818 |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:08 - Jun 11 with 2517 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:00 - Jun 11 by Swansea_Blue |
The original manifesto was costed, I think. But then they made some more commitments to the tune of at least £60BN over the term of parliament. Small beer in the grand scheme of things given that the government are currently borrowing £20BN per month.
It probably does give an angle of attack, but far too much emphasis is placed on it imo. The costings can only ever be estimates. I wish people would focus on whether policies are likely to achieve good outcomes and for whom. |
honest costing is extremely important - otherwise it's all make believe. if you don't know how it will be funded then it's fantasy and either won't happen or will come with hidden costs. equally, no costings are going to be exact - government spending and income has big built in error factors. but introducing huge sums of unfunded expenditure into corbyn's manifesto at the last minute was a complete disaster. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:12 - Jun 11 with 2497 views | blueasfook |
It's like when you go mad on the pick n mix at the cinema then get a shock when you come to pay for it. "Oooh, I'll have a bit of nationalisation of public services, that spending on health looks nice, oh go on then i'll have the free broadband too."
"That'll be £80billion please"
"Oh b*gger, can I put some back?" | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:18 - Jun 11 with 2416 views | Ryorry |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:45 - Jun 11 by blueasfook |
Not when you consider that Keir Starmer promised not to trash Corbyn's leadership if he got elected leader. Shows him not to be a man who keeps his word. I don't think that's particularly clever at all when you're going against a party who the public are fed up with because of broken promises. |
I'm quite pernickity about language, & don't think Starmer is actually trashing Corbyn's leadership, owing to his (KS's) careful inclusion of the word "style"'.
Basically saying it's not a 'catch-all' barrow type of manifesto, rather than overtly attacking JC. It's a fine line tho, which some voters will object to, others be swayed by, & some not get or care about. |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:18 - Jun 11 with 2418 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:00 - Jun 11 by Swansea_Blue |
The original manifesto was costed, I think. But then they made some more commitments to the tune of at least £60BN over the term of parliament. Small beer in the grand scheme of things given that the government are currently borrowing £20BN per month.
It probably does give an angle of attack, but far too much emphasis is placed on it imo. The costings can only ever be estimates. I wish people would focus on whether policies are likely to achieve good outcomes and for whom. |
I think you need to a fact-check your fact check haha:-
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-gaps-in-labours-spending-p
He had no idea how much nationalisation would have costed, because it wouldn’t be upto him, it would go through years of legal wrangling (unless he was going full Venezuela). They also didn’t include 30bn of national grid assets.
No idea where this fully costed myth comes from (Momentum presumably). |  | | |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:20 - Jun 11 with 2381 views | BLUEBEAT |
not real until I see a bus full of lies |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:27 - Jun 11 with 2326 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:08 - Jun 11 by lowhouseblue |
honest costing is extremely important - otherwise it's all make believe. if you don't know how it will be funded then it's fantasy and either won't happen or will come with hidden costs. equally, no costings are going to be exact - government spending and income has big built in error factors. but introducing huge sums of unfunded expenditure into corbyn's manifesto at the last minute was a complete disaster. |
I didn’t say accurate costing wasn’t important. Labour did have a document that outlined how they proposed to fund things. And yes that was challenged, as is only right and things like the WASPI payments not originally included got a lot of criticism.
What I’d like to see is a more balanced discussion around the cost-benefits of the manifestos. That seems largely ignored. We’re in a ‘know price of everything, but value of nothing’ culture. And then when people start willy waving over the specifics when all party’s costs are being questioned, it all seems a bit pointless to me. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:34 - Jun 11 with 2270 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:27 - Jun 11 by Swansea_Blue |
I didn’t say accurate costing wasn’t important. Labour did have a document that outlined how they proposed to fund things. And yes that was challenged, as is only right and things like the WASPI payments not originally included got a lot of criticism.
What I’d like to see is a more balanced discussion around the cost-benefits of the manifestos. That seems largely ignored. We’re in a ‘know price of everything, but value of nothing’ culture. And then when people start willy waving over the specifics when all party’s costs are being questioned, it all seems a bit pointless to me. |
but when your costings aren't credible the 'value' of what you promise becomes irrelevant because no one believes it will happen. free broadband? lovely but, it's as likely as a leprechaun turning up with a pot of gold. corbyn proved this and then truss gave the ultimate practical demonstration. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:39 - Jun 11 with 2239 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:18 - Jun 11 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I think you need to a fact-check your fact check haha:-
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-gaps-in-labours-spending-p
He had no idea how much nationalisation would have costed, because it wouldn’t be upto him, it would go through years of legal wrangling (unless he was going full Venezuela). They also didn’t include 30bn of national grid assets.
No idea where this fully costed myth comes from (Momentum presumably). |
It looks like it came from John McDonnell - it’s the first thing mentioned in that article you linked. Looks like he was telling porkies. But again, £30BN for assets brought back into public ownership is nothing. The government has just borrowed £20BN in March (last month available).
There should then be a debate around what that would have meant in terms of energy security, retention of previous profits that would previously been syphoned off to shareholders, how profits could be reinvested to either lower bills or future proof supply networks. What would the value have been? It always gets ignored. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:40 - Jun 11 with 2226 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:27 - Jun 11 by Swansea_Blue |
I didn’t say accurate costing wasn’t important. Labour did have a document that outlined how they proposed to fund things. And yes that was challenged, as is only right and things like the WASPI payments not originally included got a lot of criticism.
What I’d like to see is a more balanced discussion around the cost-benefits of the manifestos. That seems largely ignored. We’re in a ‘know price of everything, but value of nothing’ culture. And then when people start willy waving over the specifics when all party’s costs are being questioned, it all seems a bit pointless to me. |
Because aren’t we due a bit of honesty. We’ve had too many elections promising loads of ‘free stuff’, including tax breaks without any plans to pay for it. Sure let’s invest in public assets, but at least be honest and say taxes will need to rise. At this point Labour could pledge to double income tax and they’d still get a landslide.
And furthermore if parties cannot come up with a reasonable estimate of how much things are costing (e.g Dear Leader forgetting a ‘mere’ £30bn) what does that say about their competence, and ability to deliver these services. Look at the complete clusterf**k that is HS2, it doesn’t inspire the belief that these politicians can effectively deliver on major infrastructure investments. | | | |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:42 - Jun 11 with 2209 views | StokieBlue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:40 - Jun 11 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Because aren’t we due a bit of honesty. We’ve had too many elections promising loads of ‘free stuff’, including tax breaks without any plans to pay for it. Sure let’s invest in public assets, but at least be honest and say taxes will need to rise. At this point Labour could pledge to double income tax and they’d still get a landslide.
And furthermore if parties cannot come up with a reasonable estimate of how much things are costing (e.g Dear Leader forgetting a ‘mere’ £30bn) what does that say about their competence, and ability to deliver these services. Look at the complete clusterf**k that is HS2, it doesn’t inspire the belief that these politicians can effectively deliver on major infrastructure investments. |
"Because aren’t we due a bit of honesty".
I guess not given Sunak repeated the 2000 GBP tax claim today which has been discredited and the policy funding in his manifesto has been deemed inaccurate by independent agencies since it was announced.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:48 - Jun 11 with 2136 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:42 - Jun 11 by StokieBlue |
"Because aren’t we due a bit of honesty".
I guess not given Sunak repeated the 2000 GBP tax claim today which has been discredited and the policy funding in his manifesto has been deemed inaccurate by independent agencies since it was announced.
SB |
Right, thanks for that, well I for one am shocked that Sunak/Tories have told a lie. | | | |
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