| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:49 - Jun 11 with 2403 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:34 - Jun 11 by lowhouseblue |
but when your costings aren't credible the 'value' of what you promise becomes irrelevant because no one believes it will happen. free broadband? lovely but, it's as likely as a leprechaun turning up with a pot of gold. corbyn proved this and then truss gave the ultimate practical demonstration. |
That’s probably fair about the belief point. But then we also see that opposing parties cost up the opposition manifestos and also make misleading claims (see Sunak’s repeated lie about the £2,000 tax increase).
Maybe this all just shows that we do need manifestos to be independently costed by the OBR as some people have called for. (I still don’t think the cost is the most important thing though. It’s what the spending brings that matters. We’ve been starved by a lack of investment and can’t just keep cutting costs until there’s nothing left). |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:49 - Jun 11 with 2400 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:42 - Jun 11 by StokieBlue |
"Because aren’t we due a bit of honesty".
I guess not given Sunak repeated the 2000 GBP tax claim today which has been discredited and the policy funding in his manifesto has been deemed inaccurate by independent agencies since it was announced.
SB |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:18 - Jun 11 with 2344 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
He's a cock. |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:22 - Jun 11 with 2324 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:18 - Jun 11 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I think you need to a fact-check your fact check haha:-
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-gaps-in-labours-spending-p
He had no idea how much nationalisation would have costed, because it wouldn’t be upto him, it would go through years of legal wrangling (unless he was going full Venezuela). They also didn’t include 30bn of national grid assets.
No idea where this fully costed myth comes from (Momentum presumably). |
Was QE fully costed? | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:22 - Jun 11 with 2322 views | GlasgowBlue |
Corbyn? Yeah I agree. |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:24 - Jun 11 with 2308 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:22 - Jun 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Was QE fully costed? |
QE is used as an emergency measure. It's not in a manifesto. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:25 - Jun 11 with 2305 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:22 - Jun 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Was QE fully costed? |
Monetary policy is controlled independently by the BoE.
So no - happy to help. [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 19:26]
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:32 - Jun 11 with 2291 views | Ryorry |
Yeah, the 2019 electorate thought so too - Labour's worst ever defeat in terms of seats in the HoC came under his 'leadership'. |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:37 - Jun 11 with 2271 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:25 - Jun 11 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Monetary policy is controlled independently by the BoE.
So no - happy to help. [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 19:26]
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I didn't say differently but we have all been paying the price ever since!
Edit...isn't it funny how easily money can be made to grow on trees at times.
Happy to help! [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 19:39]
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:47 - Jun 11 with 2238 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:22 - Jun 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Was QE fully costed? |
what does that even mean? b of e managing private sector liquidity isn't the same as government expenditure. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:50 - Jun 11 with 2221 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:47 - Jun 11 by lowhouseblue |
what does that even mean? b of e managing private sector liquidity isn't the same as government expenditure. |
So the public haven’t paid the price of private sector failings?
Next you'll be telling me that QE isn't inflationary! [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 19:51]
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:58 - Jun 11 with 2202 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:50 - Jun 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So the public haven’t paid the price of private sector failings?
Next you'll be telling me that QE isn't inflationary! [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 19:51]
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well we had over a dozen years of qe without general inflation. supply side issues from the pandemic and ukraine caused the rise in cpi. if monetary policy had been tightened earlier the higher interest rates would have come sooner - which i guess you wouldn't be a fan of. asset price inflation is obviously a different issue.
the b of e moving figures around in it's balance sheet affects the money supply and private sector liquidity - it isn't analogous to cash being spent. without it the financial crisis would have been many times worse. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 20:05 - Jun 11 with 2177 views | MattinLondon |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:32 - Jun 11 by Ryorry |
Yeah, the 2019 electorate thought so too - Labour's worst ever defeat in terms of seats in the HoC came under his 'leadership'. |
Yet, at the time, a lot of Corbyn supporters were sort of happy with the result which was odd.
Loser mindset. |  | | |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 20:20 - Jun 11 with 2127 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:32 - Jun 11 by Ryorry |
Yeah, the 2019 electorate thought so too - Labour's worst ever defeat in terms of seats in the HoC came under his 'leadership'. |
Corbyn's Labour got near enough 13 million votes in 2017(40%). Let's see how many Starmer gets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 20:21]
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 20:39 - Jun 11 with 2092 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 19:58 - Jun 11 by lowhouseblue |
well we had over a dozen years of qe without general inflation. supply side issues from the pandemic and ukraine caused the rise in cpi. if monetary policy had been tightened earlier the higher interest rates would have come sooner - which i guess you wouldn't be a fan of. asset price inflation is obviously a different issue.
the b of e moving figures around in it's balance sheet affects the money supply and private sector liquidity - it isn't analogous to cash being spent. without it the financial crisis would have been many times worse. |
Isn't that because they had to keep filling a deflationary hole? Heavens forbid that asset prices fall and bank balance sheets go to sh1t. Keep propping up the status quo seems to be the cry of those with skin in the game. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 20:41 - Jun 11 with 2088 views | Trequartista |
That's like saying we scored three goals in a 3-4 defeat - it's a defeat. |  |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 20:44 - Jun 11 with 2068 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 20:41 - Jun 11 by Trequartista |
That's like saying we scored three goals in a 3-4 defeat - it's a defeat. |
Well yes under the current rules but let's see the total votes that Starmer inspires....smoke and mirrors is my prediction. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 20:54 - Jun 11 with 2045 views | GlasgowBlue |
I think it's widely established that T May had a terrible campaign in 2017. Yet she increased the Tories voting numbers by over 2 million on the 2015 election.
So you don't really have a point. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:16 - Jun 11 with 2009 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 18:40 - Jun 11 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Because aren’t we due a bit of honesty. We’ve had too many elections promising loads of ‘free stuff’, including tax breaks without any plans to pay for it. Sure let’s invest in public assets, but at least be honest and say taxes will need to rise. At this point Labour could pledge to double income tax and they’d still get a landslide.
And furthermore if parties cannot come up with a reasonable estimate of how much things are costing (e.g Dear Leader forgetting a ‘mere’ £30bn) what does that say about their competence, and ability to deliver these services. Look at the complete clusterf**k that is HS2, it doesn’t inspire the belief that these politicians can effectively deliver on major infrastructure investments. |
Yeah, those are fair points 👍 | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:18 - Jun 11 with 2006 views | DJR |
This thread has inevitably gone off at a tangent, but speaking as a fellow lawyer, a profession in which integrity (despite what some may think) is at its core, I do find it rather disturbing how Starmer is able to go back on promises or disown things he was once a part of.
And this is from the Guardian catch-up of the day.
"Surprise attack of the day
This came from Keir Starmer, who went for the Tory manifesto not because it delivers most to the richest fifth of households, nor for its incursions in the welfare budget, but because he believes it as unrealistic as Jeremy Corbyn’s, circa 2019. Surprising, because Starmer was part of the shadow cabinet that signed off that manifesto; also, because the two documents are not at all alike."
This follows a pattern in which Labour don't criticise a policy like Rwanda on the basis that it is immoral or against international law but instead that it will not work.
They really don't want to put their head above the parapet but if you do that, and don't set the agenda, you will be on the backfoot in government. [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 21:20]
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:22 - Jun 11 with 1986 views | CrockerITFC |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 16:29 - Jun 11 by J2BLUE |
Bold move when he was in the shadow cabinet. |
The cabinet don't actually have a say in the manifesto you know, but nice try |  | | |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:22 - Jun 11 with 1984 views | positivity |
yet he managed to lose 3m of those in 2 years. he'd have been down to 2-3m by now at that rate of attrition, i reckon starmer might do better than that! | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:29 - Jun 11 with 1957 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:22 - Jun 11 by CrockerITFC |
The cabinet don't actually have a say in the manifesto you know, but nice try |
They fight the election on it. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:33 - Jun 11 with 1934 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:18 - Jun 11 by DJR |
This thread has inevitably gone off at a tangent, but speaking as a fellow lawyer, a profession in which integrity (despite what some may think) is at its core, I do find it rather disturbing how Starmer is able to go back on promises or disown things he was once a part of.
And this is from the Guardian catch-up of the day.
"Surprise attack of the day
This came from Keir Starmer, who went for the Tory manifesto not because it delivers most to the richest fifth of households, nor for its incursions in the welfare budget, but because he believes it as unrealistic as Jeremy Corbyn’s, circa 2019. Surprising, because Starmer was part of the shadow cabinet that signed off that manifesto; also, because the two documents are not at all alike."
This follows a pattern in which Labour don't criticise a policy like Rwanda on the basis that it is immoral or against international law but instead that it will not work.
They really don't want to put their head above the parapet but if you do that, and don't set the agenda, you will be on the backfoot in government. [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 21:20]
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Your last point is key isn’t it. Are they setting themselves up to fail? It’s similar to how Brexit was handled - let every one believe their own version of what Labour stands for. Schrödinger's Labour. | |
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| "Jeremy Corbyn style manifesto" on 21:47 - Jun 11 with 1905 views | Ryorry |
This might shock you, but some people do vote tatically.
And then after another 2 years of Corbyn's "leadership", voters were even more disillusioned with him.
Edit: I'm going to let the Freudian slip "tatically" stand, as it seems apt for discussing most (not all) politicians :) [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 21:51]
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