| Reform UK 13:01 - Jun 18 with 15514 views | Radlett_blue |
There won't be much love for them or Farage on here, but all I am suggesting is that you read their manifesto, if you haven't already done so.
I won't be voting for them, but if you read the manifesto, you might realise why around 17% of the electorate want to do so as some of their points will make sense to them. |  |
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| Reform UK on 08:46 - Jun 20 with 1247 views | bluelagos |
| Reform UK on 08:37 - Jun 20 by Radlett_blue |
Generally, you make very good points. Yes, speeding up asylum claims would make sense for everyone - Starmer says he's going to do this but the devil is in the detail. Part of the problem isn't just the volume of asylum claims, but how they now take so long, probably thanks to taxpayer funded human rights lawyers. IMO, seeking asylum isn't an inalienable human right, while UK rejects way fewer claims (around 25%) than other European countries. |
"seeking asylum isn't an inalienable human right"
The mask rather slipped there Radlett - seems you are absolutely signed up to a narrative that would deny victims of torture or worse the ability to seek asylum. |  |
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| Reform UK on 08:55 - Jun 20 with 1227 views | NedPlimpton |
| Reform UK on 08:37 - Jun 20 by Radlett_blue |
Generally, you make very good points. Yes, speeding up asylum claims would make sense for everyone - Starmer says he's going to do this but the devil is in the detail. Part of the problem isn't just the volume of asylum claims, but how they now take so long, probably thanks to taxpayer funded human rights lawyers. IMO, seeking asylum isn't an inalienable human right, while UK rejects way fewer claims (around 25%) than other European countries. |
Wow!
Genuinely shocked and disappointed that someone would believe that having the right to seek asylum from persecution shouldn't be offered to all |  | | |
| Reform UK on 08:59 - Jun 20 with 1202 views | Herbivore |
| Reform UK on 08:37 - Jun 20 by Radlett_blue |
Generally, you make very good points. Yes, speeding up asylum claims would make sense for everyone - Starmer says he's going to do this but the devil is in the detail. Part of the problem isn't just the volume of asylum claims, but how they now take so long, probably thanks to taxpayer funded human rights lawyers. IMO, seeking asylum isn't an inalienable human right, while UK rejects way fewer claims (around 25%) than other European countries. |
I fundamentally disagree on the right to seek asylum not being an inalienable right. When you start removing the right of people to flee war and persecution and seek a safe haven you're on a pretty dangerous path, imo. On average, it takes over 6 months for the home office to make a first decision on asylum claims and that means 6 months of people who are otherwise capable of working being solely funded from the public purse. If that process and the appeals process was speeded up, we wouldn't have such a backlog of people waiting for their asylum case to be resolved. |  |
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| Reform UK on 09:14 - Jun 20 with 1151 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Reform UK on 08:37 - Jun 20 by Radlett_blue |
Generally, you make very good points. Yes, speeding up asylum claims would make sense for everyone - Starmer says he's going to do this but the devil is in the detail. Part of the problem isn't just the volume of asylum claims, but how they now take so long, probably thanks to taxpayer funded human rights lawyers. IMO, seeking asylum isn't an inalienable human right, while UK rejects way fewer claims (around 25%) than other European countries. |
Seeking asylum is an inalienable human right regardless of your 'opinion'. |  |
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| Reform UK on 09:18 - Jun 20 with 1141 views | bluelagos |
| Reform UK on 08:59 - Jun 20 by Herbivore |
I fundamentally disagree on the right to seek asylum not being an inalienable right. When you start removing the right of people to flee war and persecution and seek a safe haven you're on a pretty dangerous path, imo. On average, it takes over 6 months for the home office to make a first decision on asylum claims and that means 6 months of people who are otherwise capable of working being solely funded from the public purse. If that process and the appeals process was speeded up, we wouldn't have such a backlog of people waiting for their asylum case to be resolved. |
Absolutely - and those who fail in their applications can be removed far quicker too.
But then we wouldn't have city center hotels full of asylum seekers and the opportunity for chancers like Tom Hunt to seek to use it for political gain. The Rwanda scheme was designed with one things in mind - political gain for the Tories by highlighting the issue of small boats.
Providing safe/legal routes for asylum seekers seemingly never entered the minds of Conservatives like Patel/Braverman and now Cleverly. | |
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| Reform UK on 10:49 - Jun 20 with 1055 views | Radlett_blue |
| Reform UK on 08:46 - Jun 20 by bluelagos |
"seeking asylum isn't an inalienable human right"
The mask rather slipped there Radlett - seems you are absolutely signed up to a narrative that would deny victims of torture or worse the ability to seek asylum. |
okay - I'm willing to rephrase that. The whole asylum system has been completely discredited when it's clear that a large proportion of those applying in the UK are pure economic migrants who may have been been refused asylum in another country.
I have made it clear that I am not against immigration at all, just frustrated with a broken asylum system to which there is no simple answer. | |
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| Reform UK on 11:08 - Jun 20 with 1017 views | Herbivore |
| Reform UK on 10:49 - Jun 20 by Radlett_blue |
okay - I'm willing to rephrase that. The whole asylum system has been completely discredited when it's clear that a large proportion of those applying in the UK are pure economic migrants who may have been been refused asylum in another country.
I have made it clear that I am not against immigration at all, just frustrated with a broken asylum system to which there is no simple answer. |
Is there some data to support the assertion that a large proportion of asylum seekers are economic migrants who have been denied asylum elsewhere? | |
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| Reform UK on 12:31 - Jun 20 with 937 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK on 10:49 - Jun 20 by Radlett_blue |
okay - I'm willing to rephrase that. The whole asylum system has been completely discredited when it's clear that a large proportion of those applying in the UK are pure economic migrants who may have been been refused asylum in another country.
I have made it clear that I am not against immigration at all, just frustrated with a broken asylum system to which there is no simple answer. |
Don't we grant most of our asylum claims though, suggesting that we think they have good cases? Afghanistan is also the main source now, and it's hard to argue that the political situation there is stable and that we shouldn't have already done more to support those Afghans who we'd left in vulnerable positions when we withdrew our forces.
Also, it's still worth remembering we receive far fewer applications than some other European countries. In 2023, Germany 329,035 applicants, Spain (160,460), France (145,095) and Italy (130,565) - https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?oldid=599145#:~:tex
For the 12 months to March 24, the UK received 69,298 asylum applications (relating to 86,719 people) - https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-endi
When you look at the number of applications per head of population, our figures look even smaller - we're around 14th for applications and 19th/20th for processed acceptances in the list of EU+ countries (slighlty older data though) - https://factcheckni.org/topics/europe/is-the-uk-ranked-14th-in-europe-for-the-nu
TLDR - asylum is a global problem and we have far less of it than comparable neighbor countries in Europe. That's not to say it doesn't cause challenges, but as a global issue countries need to be working together to resolve it. Having certain groups politicising and weaponsing asylum seekers doesn't help. At the moment, it's hard to argue that the UK is somehow being singled out and taking a disproportionately higher number. |  |
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| Reform UK on 12:41 - Jun 20 with 905 views | NedPlimpton |
| Reform UK on 10:49 - Jun 20 by Radlett_blue |
okay - I'm willing to rephrase that. The whole asylum system has been completely discredited when it's clear that a large proportion of those applying in the UK are pure economic migrants who may have been been refused asylum in another country.
I have made it clear that I am not against immigration at all, just frustrated with a broken asylum system to which there is no simple answer. |
"it's clear that a large proportion of those applying in the UK are pure economic migrants who may have been been refused asylum in another country"
No it's not. You can't just want something to be true to suit your agenda. Do some research and come back with numbers. I bet you can't find anything to back up your claim [Post edited 20 Jun 2024 12:53]
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