| Reform UK 13:01 - Jun 18 with 15512 views | Radlett_blue |
There won't be much love for them or Farage on here, but all I am suggesting is that you read their manifesto, if you haven't already done so.
I won't be voting for them, but if you read the manifesto, you might realise why around 17% of the electorate want to do so as some of their points will make sense to them. |  |
| |  |
| Reform UK on 14:38 - Jun 18 with 2608 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK on 13:07 - Jun 18 by StokieBlue |
The points make sense to them because they have swallowed the anti-immigration narrative over the last decade without actually checking any of the facts.
It's just a confirmation that lying and obfuscating in politics isn't punished and is now in fact the norm.
SB |
The question is how can you get through to people who are convinced by this stuff and belief Nige ‘tells it like it is’? They’ve already abandoned facts in preference to beliefs and ‘alternative facts’. I’ve no idea how you can reach them, because it can’t be through any sort of normal debate. |  |
| |
| Reform UK on 14:44 - Jun 18 with 2585 views | noggin |
Until wealth inequality is addressed seriously, the less wealthy in Britain will feel that voting for parties like Reform is their only option. It's easier to blame immigration than to actually stand up to the constant transfer of wealth to the super rich. |  |
| |
| Reform UK on 14:55 - Jun 18 with 2553 views | StokieBlue |
| Reform UK on 14:38 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
The question is how can you get through to people who are convinced by this stuff and belief Nige ‘tells it like it is’? They’ve already abandoned facts in preference to beliefs and ‘alternative facts’. I’ve no idea how you can reach them, because it can’t be through any sort of normal debate. |
I'm not sure you can.
It needed to be stopped at source a decade ago, now many have self-reinforcing echo chambers which are very hard to break through.
It's like conspiracies, there is a tipping point with conspiracy theorists whereby they pass a threshold and from then on anyone who disagrees with the conspiracy is part of the conspiracy.
We are unfortunately at that stage when it comes to politics for a lot of people.
SB |  | | |
| Reform UK on 14:55 - Jun 18 with 2551 views | Whos_blue |
I thought Ben Habib was good value on Newsnight last night. Consistently spoke over Victoria Derbyshire, kept answering questions with a question and not an answer.
It was difficult to take much away from it, but one snippet was good fun. Something about turning our focus away from our historical links to slavery in school history lessons and to focus more of the good stuff about the former British Empire. I'm paraphrasing slightly, but seemed to be the gist of it.
Make Britain Great Again. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
| |
| Reform UK on 14:58 - Jun 18 with 2513 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK on 14:44 - Jun 18 by noggin |
Until wealth inequality is addressed seriously, the less wealthy in Britain will feel that voting for parties like Reform is their only option. It's easier to blame immigration than to actually stand up to the constant transfer of wealth to the super rich. |
Sounds sensible to me. We do need to consider why populists like Farage gain so much traction, and being left behind seems like one of the most commonly quoted reasons. So inequality, and probably more specifically poverty (or close to it) is something that needs to be addressed. | |
| |
| Reform UK on 15:04 - Jun 18 with 2488 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK on 14:55 - Jun 18 by Whos_blue |
I thought Ben Habib was good value on Newsnight last night. Consistently spoke over Victoria Derbyshire, kept answering questions with a question and not an answer.
It was difficult to take much away from it, but one snippet was good fun. Something about turning our focus away from our historical links to slavery in school history lessons and to focus more of the good stuff about the former British Empire. I'm paraphrasing slightly, but seemed to be the gist of it.
Make Britain Great Again. |
We should celebrate the artistry needed to craft the chains used to lock up the slaves. | |
| |
| Reform UK on 15:10 - Jun 18 with 2469 views | BlueNomad |
I have read it. I find a lot of it quite sinister with National Socialist thought behind it. Reform UK are very dangerous and seek to capitalise on people's surface view of complex issues. |  | | |
| Reform UK on 15:18 - Jun 18 with 2439 views | Blueschev |
| Reform UK on 15:04 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
We should celebrate the artistry needed to craft the chains used to lock up the slaves. |
We abolished slavery before the Americans, I think that the world is truly ungrateful for this heroic act of kindness. Other countries did bad things in history but we don't teach our children any of that do we? Just how terrible we are on every level. I doubt my kids are even aware that before the British Empire, they didn't have trains in India. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Reform UK on 15:19 - Jun 18 with 2428 views | noggin |
| Reform UK on 15:18 - Jun 18 by Blueschev |
We abolished slavery before the Americans, I think that the world is truly ungrateful for this heroic act of kindness. Other countries did bad things in history but we don't teach our children any of that do we? Just how terrible we are on every level. I doubt my kids are even aware that before the British Empire, they didn't have trains in India. |
Brilliant trolling. | |
| |
| Reform UK on 15:21 - Jun 18 with 2416 views | NthQldITFC |
| Reform UK on 13:07 - Jun 18 by Illinoisblue |
As with Trump over here, the entire campaign is a grift based on racist bullet points. There is no policy or plan other than to make money from stupid people.
So, sure, read the “manifesto” and why not chuck in a few quid to the man who banks at Coutts. |
Even Ref*rm themselves don't have the front to call it a Manifesto - they're calling it a ConTrick I think - although that might be the South Effrican accent of the 'agent' of theirs who was trying to tell me all about it. |  |
| |
| Reform UK on 15:22 - Jun 18 with 2408 views | leitrimblue |
| Reform UK on 14:55 - Jun 18 by Whos_blue |
I thought Ben Habib was good value on Newsnight last night. Consistently spoke over Victoria Derbyshire, kept answering questions with a question and not an answer.
It was difficult to take much away from it, but one snippet was good fun. Something about turning our focus away from our historical links to slavery in school history lessons and to focus more of the good stuff about the former British Empire. I'm paraphrasing slightly, but seemed to be the gist of it.
Make Britain Great Again. |
Excellent, so ignore the ethnic cleansing, the genocide, the slavery, the destruction of cultures and the theft of large amounts of material and mineral wealth and concentrate on what? The trains?  |  | | |
| Reform UK on 15:52 - Jun 18 with 2349 views | Whos_blue |
| Reform UK on 15:22 - Jun 18 by leitrimblue |
Excellent, so ignore the ethnic cleansing, the genocide, the slavery, the destruction of cultures and the theft of large amounts of material and mineral wealth and concentrate on what? The trains? |
Something like that, yes.
MBGA. | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
| |
| Reform UK on 17:43 - Jun 18 with 2238 views | BABLUE |
I suggest that you listen to this as it is spot on about Farage |  | | |
| Reform UK on 18:03 - Jun 18 with 2197 views | Mullet |
It’s absolute pie in the sky nonsense and lies. It’s been completely ripped apart as shallow, dishonest and full of sh1t already.
Anger, racism and a lack of responsibility are the main drivers. The whole thing is a clown show. |  |
| |
| Reform UK on 18:55 - Jun 18 with 2147 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reform UK on 13:10 - Jun 18 by bluelagos |
There's plenty in their manifesto that makes sense - electoral reform, raising the tax threshold to name but two.
The problem I have is the tone that immigration is bad, immigrants are bad and the constant racist dog whistling such as "I wouldn't wish to live next to a Romanian" as Farage previously said.
The truth is that without migration, our population would soon be in decline and most importantly, the working age population would struggle to fund the services needed for an aging population. Unless we sign up to increasing birth rates (could you even do that?) then we have a problem and dog whistling about foreigners isn't a solution.
Sadly the overiding narrative in the UK is that migration is a bad thing - which is utter nonsense. But it sells papers and is convenient to have a scapegoat rather than concede the reason our services are on their knees is because we haven't funded them properly. |
I started to read it yesterday but got waylaid.
As it happens I was thinking about voting for reform before Farage took over, now I probably won't.
I don't give a monkeys what the haters say but I hope Reform does well and gives the mainstream a fecking great jolt.
I read a few posts yesterday on here and I gotta say, many on this forum are so out of touch with the common man.
"Immigration is not out of control, prove to me that it is"
I'll bloody prove it, the fact that hotels and ex military places are full to the brim bloody proves it.
Controlled immigration is absolutely fine and if anything we need a whole lot more of it, both for diversity, richness of culture and very importantly - workers.
Unchecked people in small boats conveniently losing their passports on the way is absolutely fecking insane and will come back to bite us on the arse.
Utter utter madness!!
Oh and by the way, I very much doubt any manifesto will add up financially.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2024 19:05]
|  |
| |
| Reform UK on 19:00 - Jun 18 with 2126 views | cooperd5 |
| Reform UK on 18:03 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
It’s absolute pie in the sky nonsense and lies. It’s been completely ripped apart as shallow, dishonest and full of sh1t already.
Anger, racism and a lack of responsibility are the main drivers. The whole thing is a clown show. |
Harsh on clowns....
Seriously, it's pie in the sky and totally unfundable let alone achievable! Why anyone listens to and trusts Chief Grifter Farage is beyond comprehension. |  | | |
| Reform UK on 20:01 - Jun 18 with 2058 views | woodbridge_blue |
Just playing Devil's Advocate here....what about voters who would rather not vote for either of the two main parties, particularly Tories who feel let down by the past 14 years of government, but cannot, for various reasons, bring themselves to vote for Labour....are we suggesting they vote for one of the other minority parties, anyone but Reform?
Just asking for a couple of friends. |  | | |
| Reform UK on 20:09 - Jun 18 with 2048 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Reform UK on 13:10 - Jun 18 by bluelagos |
There's plenty in their manifesto that makes sense - electoral reform, raising the tax threshold to name but two.
The problem I have is the tone that immigration is bad, immigrants are bad and the constant racist dog whistling such as "I wouldn't wish to live next to a Romanian" as Farage previously said.
The truth is that without migration, our population would soon be in decline and most importantly, the working age population would struggle to fund the services needed for an aging population. Unless we sign up to increasing birth rates (could you even do that?) then we have a problem and dog whistling about foreigners isn't a solution.
Sadly the overiding narrative in the UK is that migration is a bad thing - which is utter nonsense. But it sells papers and is convenient to have a scapegoat rather than concede the reason our services are on their knees is because we haven't funded them properly. |
Isn't Farage married to a Rumanian (or German or French woman)? I suppose he would rather live with one than next door to them! |  |
| |
| Reform UK on 20:11 - Jun 18 with 2031 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Reform UK on 14:36 - Jun 18 by mutters |
He can say whatever he wants as he has no chance of getting into power and having to implement them. |
Although, to be fair, that has been Conservatives' tactic even when they have had a chance to get in power - see "stop the boats", "get Brexit done", etc, etc, etc. | |
| |
| Reform UK on 20:14 - Jun 18 with 2022 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Reform UK on 20:01 - Jun 18 by woodbridge_blue |
Just playing Devil's Advocate here....what about voters who would rather not vote for either of the two main parties, particularly Tories who feel let down by the past 14 years of government, but cannot, for various reasons, bring themselves to vote for Labour....are we suggesting they vote for one of the other minority parties, anyone but Reform?
Just asking for a couple of friends. |
This is the best thing about Reform. For many years we have had multiple parties with policies in the centre and to the left with one right of centre or the occasional fringe one on the right. Instead we now have a far right Reform party and a less far right Conservative one. Unfortunately, to find some ground to get elected, Labour has still had to lurch right of centre too. | |
| |
| Reform UK on 20:17 - Jun 18 with 2015 views | Mullet |
| Reform UK on 18:55 - Jun 18 by Lord_Lucan |
I started to read it yesterday but got waylaid.
As it happens I was thinking about voting for reform before Farage took over, now I probably won't.
I don't give a monkeys what the haters say but I hope Reform does well and gives the mainstream a fecking great jolt.
I read a few posts yesterday on here and I gotta say, many on this forum are so out of touch with the common man.
"Immigration is not out of control, prove to me that it is"
I'll bloody prove it, the fact that hotels and ex military places are full to the brim bloody proves it.
Controlled immigration is absolutely fine and if anything we need a whole lot more of it, both for diversity, richness of culture and very importantly - workers.
Unchecked people in small boats conveniently losing their passports on the way is absolutely fecking insane and will come back to bite us on the arse.
Utter utter madness!!
Oh and by the way, I very much doubt any manifesto will add up financially.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2024 19:05]
|
Isn't that more a proof that social housing, infrastructure, corruption etc. are out of control?
If a hotel makes more money housing immigrants than hoping guests book it out, money always wins too. Given how bad some of the places the homeless and stateless are put in, I think simply saying "it's immigrants" when Brexit caused massive influxes is too simplistic.
Let alone this "manifesto" wants to punish companies for hiring immigrants and close down gaps in their biggest employers such as farmers, the NHS et al. There are far more natives wanting someone else to pay, someone else to go to work, someone else to pay taxes to get their preferred lifestyle that "the common man" as you put it is equally as guilty of being out of touch with reality.
Reform has no intention of shaking things up, they know they can't win. Much like LePen has been doing they want to sit on the sidelines and complain and snipe whilst taking as much cash as they can. | |
| |
| Reform UK on 20:40 - Jun 18 with 1979 views | HairBearBunch |
| Reform UK on 13:36 - Jun 18 by itfckenty |
Anyone that thinks this party is better than any other is delusional. Unfortunately they are all the same and have always been the same. A manifesto is just a ploy to trick people into thinking those ideas will actually be met, when in fact a good % never will. Reform is just banking on the idea that immigration will get them votes, and it definitely will get them votes. But those people who are mostly voting on that basis are most likely the ones that are mostly uneducated and sitting on benefits themselves whining there's no jobs because of immigration. When in fact they are part of that big issue. My company is full of people from all walks of life and all a huge benefits to the company. So I don't think it's all to do with immigration. There's a much wider issue. |
But those people who are mostly voting on that basis are most likely the ones that are mostly uneducated
This is exactly what came up post-brexit, there were even surveys claiming this if I recall correctly. And it's exactly the sort of commentary that will entrench those with that opinion, rather than sensible discussion.
Or do you prefer a minimum educational qualification threshold before being on the electoral roll ? |  | | |
| Reform UK on 20:44 - Jun 18 with 1954 views | Mullet |
| Reform UK on 20:40 - Jun 18 by HairBearBunch |
But those people who are mostly voting on that basis are most likely the ones that are mostly uneducated
This is exactly what came up post-brexit, there were even surveys claiming this if I recall correctly. And it's exactly the sort of commentary that will entrench those with that opinion, rather than sensible discussion.
Or do you prefer a minimum educational qualification threshold before being on the electoral roll ? |
It's not really a claim, but a statistical reality
https://www.statista.com/statistics/572613/brexit-votes-by-education/
The commentary around it might swing from unsavoury to uncomfortable, but it's not a slur based on snobbery alone. | |
| |
| Reform UK on 20:53 - Jun 18 with 3233 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Reform UK on 20:40 - Jun 18 by HairBearBunch |
But those people who are mostly voting on that basis are most likely the ones that are mostly uneducated
This is exactly what came up post-brexit, there were even surveys claiming this if I recall correctly. And it's exactly the sort of commentary that will entrench those with that opinion, rather than sensible discussion.
Or do you prefer a minimum educational qualification threshold before being on the electoral roll ? |
It is easier to persuade less educated people with an emotional rather than a rational argument.
I do not support disenfranchising the less educated. However, there is a problem with politics that is populist and it is getting worse.
Why do you think that it is better to make decisions that appeal more to the less educated? I suppose it is a bit chicken and egg that we need better education that will lead to greater understanding and less populist politics. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
