| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way 10:24 - Jul 9 with 10452 views | itfcsuth |
Games gone mad.
I’m not saying they aren’t bad players by the way, but for £20m a piece, Hull have done us like a kipper financially.
As a newly promoted club, you can’t get £20m signings wrong, and to be paying £20m a pop for Philogene & Greaves looks overpriced to me.
Rodon went for £10m last week. |  | | |  |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:03 - Jul 10 with 1355 views | Europablue |
Didn't Rodon go to a Championship club though? The price often depends on how much money you have and we have significantly more to spend than a Championship club. |  | | |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:08 - Jul 10 with 1329 views | Europablue |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 11:22 - Jul 9 by itfcjoe |
You seem to think every PL fee is inflated, it's just the price here |
The two things are true at the same time PL fees are inflated, and that is just the price.
The prices fans pay are way higher and that is all justified as being to pay the wages of the high earners, but that money just goes to inflate wages rather than improve the quality of players we can afford. We just get ripped off to keep up. | | | |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:11 - Jul 10 with 1300 views | nodge_blue |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:00 - Jul 10 by itfcjoe |
With Sara it took him a year to get up to speed with the Championship before looking excellent this year - we just have to hit the ground running and prob why such an English focus on recruitment. We need to be at 100% of tactical understanding from Day 1 as our main hope of getting enough points across the season.
In future years if we can stabilise in PL then we can look to take riskier signings on I'm sure |
I agree that the 3 Hull lads played in a system very similar to ours and that will help them adjust quickly and for us to have a greater certainty of it will work.
Im not totally against them or anything but, how much is left for others now we will have spent circa 70mil. Only the other week we were suggesting that was our figure for the window.
The club has such a good track record in recent years its not that I doubt the players. Im just uncomfortable with the fees for players who are unproven in PL.
Im just chewing the fat with you rather than saying "this is wrong". |  |
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| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:18 - Jul 10 with 1263 views | Europablue |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 18:25 - Jul 9 by Vegtablue |
I'd prefer us to be identifying the £5M versions a season before they show themselves to be the cream of the Championship too, but that comes with its own risks.
Philogene was 5th best in the league last season according to FotMob, 4th according to WhoScored. In tables usually biased towards attacking players, Greaves placed 10th on WhoScored (1st for CBs) and 29th on FotMob (3rd for CBs). Greaves outperformed Rodon and is three years younger with a longer contract, so unsurprising that he's costing a lot more. Hull fans are more gutted about him leaving than they are Philogene, for what that's worth.
I didn't want to believe £15M or £20M was the new normal for proven top young Championship talent when these numbers started rolling in, but the great inflation appears to have been established since 23/24 at least. If Omari is considered reasonable value at £18M+, Greaves and Philogene were always going to cost similar. Harwood-Bellis has cost Southampton £20M; I think Greaves is the better player. Southampton have also signed Ronnie Edwards for £3M, which is much more like it, but not with the view that he needs to hit the ground running or even play. Filling our squad up with prospects like that won't help us this season.
In Greaves and Philogene we've hopefully identified players who are operating at PL standard in the division below, alongside Omari. It's worth spending more on players you're convinced are good enough, rather than prospects who may or may not prove a steal, or overseas players who may or may not acclimatise in time. Time isn't on our side and these opportunities are rare.
If they don't go on to be PL starters (or equiv.) for years to come, here or elsewhere, we've got it wrong obviously. |
The problem we have is that we did identify both Philogene and Delap last year, but both were out of our price range. Now we are in the Premier League, our rivals won't sell to us and many players would need a season in the Championship to prepare them for the Premier League. We are now a club that will by players for 15 million and sell them for 50 million rather than a club who buys players for 1 million and sells them for 5. I think the answer for us in the long term is the academy and you can see that we are bringing in a lot of prospects. | | | |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:23 - Jul 10 with 1244 views | Europablue |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 09:53 - Jul 10 by nodge_blue |
And that's the argument I have in my head as well.
But equally what about a Sara at 6 million? That's only in 2022 they signed him. The analogous shop that we are in is pretty big and there just has to be some gems there which we could get for a lot less than the circa 20 mil a player we have been looking at.
We seem to be poaching players from clubs that have a very strong negotiating hand which doesn't help.
I was making a case a few weeks back for Davis being worth 20 mil when others were saying we would get maybe 10ish. My valuation on him now looks under cooked in light of the current fees.
Edit - Tzolis to Bruges for 6mil euros as an example. Young, fast, technical and a goalscorer. Really liked him and imo not far off Philogene. [Post edited 10 Jul 2024 9:59]
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Teams with good players and fairly stable finances will always have a good negotiating hand, they don't need to sell and if they decide to sell, they will demand a high price. | | | |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:31 - Jul 10 with 1203 views | BloomBlue |
The Roden deal is different. In real terms Spurs were the main buying club and Leeds seller. But Leeds required cash for financial rules.
So if Leeds had sold Gray for £40m but Roden was valued at £20m basically only £20m in cash could be offset against the financial rules - I appreciate there may be some accounting tweaks.
But Leeds wanted £30m in cash to help them achieve financial rules for last year, although valued Gray at £40m that's why they rejected Brentford. Being the selling club they had the power to select terms and forced the £10m valuation as part of the deal, so they got the £30 they could offset against the financial rules. £10m also wasn't going to result in the Football authorities saying... hold on he's worth more than that, you've deliberately falsified the figures to get round financial rules.
Also remember there was a rumour when Town offered £10m for him Spurs said no, for a straight cash deal they wanted £15m. |  | | |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 12:01 - Jul 11 with 1051 views | itfcjoe |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 10:11 - Jul 10 by nodge_blue |
I agree that the 3 Hull lads played in a system very similar to ours and that will help them adjust quickly and for us to have a greater certainty of it will work.
Im not totally against them or anything but, how much is left for others now we will have spent circa 70mil. Only the other week we were suggesting that was our figure for the window.
The club has such a good track record in recent years its not that I doubt the players. Im just uncomfortable with the fees for players who are unproven in PL.
Im just chewing the fat with you rather than saying "this is wrong". |
Yeah, I took it as such - guess the £70m people thought is turning out to be an underestimate, and £100m may even turn out to be an underestimate as crazy as that sounds!
Think these players are pretty low risk pick ups with regards to hitting the physical and technical side of things at PL level and having played as they have in other systems they should be intellectually/mentally up to what we want to do
SO for me they are low risk, but the 'risk' is that they have a high floor but don't get mcuh above that and just become a bog standard PL player when you need a bit more from some of them to realise a fee |  |
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| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 12:10 - Jul 11 with 996 views | tractorboy1978 |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 12:01 - Jul 11 by itfcjoe |
Yeah, I took it as such - guess the £70m people thought is turning out to be an underestimate, and £100m may even turn out to be an underestimate as crazy as that sounds!
Think these players are pretty low risk pick ups with regards to hitting the physical and technical side of things at PL level and having played as they have in other systems they should be intellectually/mentally up to what we want to do
SO for me they are low risk, but the 'risk' is that they have a high floor but don't get mcuh above that and just become a bog standard PL player when you need a bit more from some of them to realise a fee |
Realistically, we only need one of Greaves, Delap, Hutchinson, Philogene (hopefully) to really bang and we've covered the transfer fees of all 4 of them. I guess that is the way we will be looking at it! | | | |
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| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 13:55 - Jul 11 with 869 views | Crawfordsboot |
Much of the discussion here misses one of the most important points re transfer fees. Invariably the average fan will have no idea on the contractual terms. Add to that the fact that reciprocal transfer arrangements are on the increase where both fees in and out are artificially inflated. Both clubs then make a significant profit which goes straight to the bottom line. The players contracts are long term (a la Chelsea) so the fee gets written off over a number of years. Result FFP problems solved!
Further down the line this will of course come home to roost so I hope we do not get sucked in to these shenanigans
Simple innit |  | | |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 16:29 - Jul 11 with 799 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 23:31 - Jul 9 by budgiebasher |
I disagree. If you're not sure what you're doing, it's a gamble. If you know what you're doing, then it isn't a gamble, it's a calculated risk. |
Taking risky action in the hope of a particular outcome, whether calculated or not, is gambling.
If you still disagree then take it up with the people who write the dictionary definitions. |  |
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| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 16:44 - Jul 11 with 742 views | budgiebasher |
| £40m for Philogene and Greaves is scandalous by the way on 16:29 - Jul 11 by Tangledupin_Blue |
Taking risky action in the hope of a particular outcome, whether calculated or not, is gambling.
If you still disagree then take it up with the people who write the dictionary definitions. |
I’ll just disagree thanks |  |
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