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Thanks for the service Southgate on 09:13 - Jul 15 by ElephantintheRoom
Not asking for a lot then
Funnily enough Germany, France and Italy don’t win every game either. Has it ever occurred to you that the difference between winning and losing these games is wafer thin?
Has it occurred to you that the mob in red played as a team. They all knew what they were doing, where they were meant to be. They played for each other.
The shower in white? The complete opposite. Spain are a smashing team and probably would have won regardless. My hope was that England would give it a go. But no, Southgate set them up in the same old way with the same old result.
The difference between the winners and losers in this game was a country mile. Oh and for the record, since WW2 how many tournaments have Italy, Germany and France won? Too many to count. Easy enough to count England’s wins though.
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Thanks for the service Southgate on 12:24 - Jul 15 with 750 views
Thanks for the service Southgate on 08:43 - Jul 15 by Churchman
It did strike me as an odd thing to fess up to.
So, he played a player who was totally off the pace. Barely moved in a month. Not just the first game. Every game. All flippin seven. ‘Harry’s got a great record’. So has the late Johnny Haynes and Nat Lofthouse, but nobody is suggesting them.
Learning curve? Horizontal. I’d also query why Kane didn’t put his hand up and say the obvious ‘sorry, I’m not right’. Is he so arrogant that he feels a statue Kane is better than the other players or are his records more important than the team?
Harsh, possibly unfair questions, but it puzzles me.
'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results‘ - Albert Einstein.
All good points. Kane also talked about 'physical and mindset tiredness' in his post match interview which really suggests he wasn't in the right place to have even made the bench for that game. What a wasted opportunity.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2024 12:25]
It's 106 miles to Portman Road, we've got a full tank of gas, half a round of Port Salut, it's dark... and we're wearing blue tinted sunglasses.
Thanks for the service Southgate on 22:12 - Jul 14 by GlasgowBlue
We need somebody with the man management and empathy skills of Southgate but the tactical nous of the elite mangers and the ruthlessness of Sir Alf.
Tbh we winged it this far and the last two matches the opposition managers changed their game plan to counter ours. We got lucky against the Dutch but were found out by Spain.
Southgate can go with his head held high but with a few regrets.
[Post edited 14 Jul 2024 22:14]
We got no luckier against the Dutch than Spain got against us yesterday - in both games the best team deservedly won 2-1 with a late goal.
Thanks for the service Southgate on 23:10 - Jul 14 by BondiBlue
The argument with international football is the coach doesn't have enough time to get combinations into them. Spain were the outlier in this tournament - they looked like they played together every week. Every other team (France being the best example) looked like 11 good players who'd never met before.
We might be able to do better than southgate but not by much.
Every Spanish player can play that 433 they set up with in their sleep, and they are probably the only country where that is the case and they look so much more fluid than everyone else for it.
There were 3 very well coached teams in the tournament
- Spain as it is their total identiy - Germany as they had an elite coach - Austria because seems half their team went through the Red Bull model
And 3 very resilient teams - England - France - Spain
I'm not sure I see an elite manager out there for England, and still think a culture guy is our best fit with the hope we can put a bit more together and get the right side of the margins
Thanks for the service Southgate on 13:37 - Jul 15 by itfcjoe
Every Spanish player can play that 433 they set up with in their sleep, and they are probably the only country where that is the case and they look so much more fluid than everyone else for it.
There were 3 very well coached teams in the tournament
- Spain as it is their total identiy - Germany as they had an elite coach - Austria because seems half their team went through the Red Bull model
And 3 very resilient teams - England - France - Spain
I'm not sure I see an elite manager out there for England, and still think a culture guy is our best fit with the hope we can put a bit more together and get the right side of the margins
There were some other decent minnows, let's be honest about it
Playing a style of football more like we would play under McKenna for example, Slovakia reminded me a lot of us.
Alcohol is the answer but I can't remember the question!
Thanks for the service Southgate on 13:37 - Jul 15 by itfcjoe
Every Spanish player can play that 433 they set up with in their sleep, and they are probably the only country where that is the case and they look so much more fluid than everyone else for it.
There were 3 very well coached teams in the tournament
- Spain as it is their total identiy - Germany as they had an elite coach - Austria because seems half their team went through the Red Bull model
And 3 very resilient teams - England - France - Spain
I'm not sure I see an elite manager out there for England, and still think a culture guy is our best fit with the hope we can put a bit more together and get the right side of the margins
Are we really asking the England players to do anything drastically different to what they do at club level? We shouldn't be. All of the top teams play fluid systems. 4-2-3-1 into 4-3-3 into 3-4-3. These players are used to adapting roles in complexed systems so it is baffling how we manage to make players that thrive at club level look shells of the players we are used to seeing. It has to come down to the coaching/mindset for me.
I am not sure why our players should be less comfortable than Spain.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2024 13:59]
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Thanks for the service Southgate on 14:06 - Jul 15 with 626 views
Thanks for the service Southgate on 13:58 - Jul 15 by tractorboy1978
Are we really asking the England players to do anything drastically different to what they do at club level? We shouldn't be. All of the top teams play fluid systems. 4-2-3-1 into 4-3-3 into 3-4-3. These players are used to adapting roles in complexed systems so it is baffling how we manage to make players that thrive at club level look shells of the players we are used to seeing. It has to come down to the coaching/mindset for me.
I am not sure why our players should be less comfortable than Spain.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2024 13:59]
It's very different playing fluid football at international level than club level formationally, we did it a bit against the Dutch but our rotations are so good because they are so heavily drilled at Ipswich. Spain play a relatively simple game tactically but are all just so adept at it.
When we set up really well for first half yesterday we totally stopped them, but switched off at start of second half and lost the game.
We tried too hard to balance Saka, Foden and Bellingham in the team this tournament and it didn't really work - Saka played well, the other 2 didn't. I think more bravery was needed re who started on the LW and even at times with Kane but it's hard to leave out big name, top quality players who coming off the back of fantastic seasons and haven't let England down before - impossible decisions almost but with this likely being his last tournament it would have been nice to go out on own terms but wasn;t to be
Thanks for the service Southgate on 14:06 - Jul 15 by itfcjoe
It's very different playing fluid football at international level than club level formationally, we did it a bit against the Dutch but our rotations are so good because they are so heavily drilled at Ipswich. Spain play a relatively simple game tactically but are all just so adept at it.
When we set up really well for first half yesterday we totally stopped them, but switched off at start of second half and lost the game.
We tried too hard to balance Saka, Foden and Bellingham in the team this tournament and it didn't really work - Saka played well, the other 2 didn't. I think more bravery was needed re who started on the LW and even at times with Kane but it's hard to leave out big name, top quality players who coming off the back of fantastic seasons and haven't let England down before - impossible decisions almost but with this likely being his last tournament it would have been nice to go out on own terms but wasn;t to be
Is it that hard to leave out big name, top quality players? Surely if you are the England manager you decide how you want to play and play the best players for that. You make the decision whether players like it or not. It’s precisely what Alf Ramsey did. We are talking about putting together a football team, not recovering Apollo 13.
We had all this must squeeze them in nonsense with Gerrard and Lampard all those years ago. It was blindingly obvious you couldn’t play them in the same team, but not to the dopes in charge of England. Rinse and repeat this time around?
Did Southgate know how to get the best out of The players you mention? The answer is no, unless those players are not ‘top quality’/as good as their reputations. I can’t see another explanation.
As for Kane, he had the mobility of a wardrobe. That must have been obvious before the first game, but Southgate was either not looking or too weak to drop him. In that weakness, what does that say to the other forwards in the squad? That the manager is loyal to the bitter end or prefers a manikin in an England kit to them? Our stats going forward were woeful.
As for the left back situation, that was a farce. Trippier: poor season for Newcastle, filling in at left back because Southgate only selected Shaw for that position. Plenty of right backs though. Shaw played a game and a half in the end. Did that justify the risk? Not to me.
Overall there were decisions to be made and Southgate copped out of making them. The dear old fear based compromise; tried and trusted. Defend from the first whistle and hope to pinch a goal or penalties. It failed and there is no merit in it. I believe we have better players than that.
Spain were excellent and would have probably won whatever we did. I’d just like to have seen us try and lay a glove on them before they scored. It’s not as if they hadn’t had a warning in previous games.
Roll on August!
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Thanks for the service Southgate on 14:57 - Jul 15 with 571 views
Thanks for the service Southgate on 14:45 - Jul 15 by Churchman
Is it that hard to leave out big name, top quality players? Surely if you are the England manager you decide how you want to play and play the best players for that. You make the decision whether players like it or not. It’s precisely what Alf Ramsey did. We are talking about putting together a football team, not recovering Apollo 13.
We had all this must squeeze them in nonsense with Gerrard and Lampard all those years ago. It was blindingly obvious you couldn’t play them in the same team, but not to the dopes in charge of England. Rinse and repeat this time around?
Did Southgate know how to get the best out of The players you mention? The answer is no, unless those players are not ‘top quality’/as good as their reputations. I can’t see another explanation.
As for Kane, he had the mobility of a wardrobe. That must have been obvious before the first game, but Southgate was either not looking or too weak to drop him. In that weakness, what does that say to the other forwards in the squad? That the manager is loyal to the bitter end or prefers a manikin in an England kit to them? Our stats going forward were woeful.
As for the left back situation, that was a farce. Trippier: poor season for Newcastle, filling in at left back because Southgate only selected Shaw for that position. Plenty of right backs though. Shaw played a game and a half in the end. Did that justify the risk? Not to me.
Overall there were decisions to be made and Southgate copped out of making them. The dear old fear based compromise; tried and trusted. Defend from the first whistle and hope to pinch a goal or penalties. It failed and there is no merit in it. I believe we have better players than that.
Spain were excellent and would have probably won whatever we did. I’d just like to have seen us try and lay a glove on them before they scored. It’s not as if they hadn’t had a warning in previous games.
Roll on August!
It did feel like once we scored, we sat back again another thing we have been particularly guilty of under Southgate
But there you go, it's probably his last game, he has done alright in tournaments
The question was always going to be whether he could take this side to new heights after previous near misses and the truth is, he couldn't, the team have regressed on the previous tournament performances
Alcohol is the answer but I can't remember the question!
Thanks for the service Southgate on 14:57 - Jul 15 by bournemouthblue
It did feel like once we scored, we sat back again another thing we have been particularly guilty of under Southgate
But there you go, it's probably his last game, he has done alright in tournaments
The question was always going to be whether he could take this side to new heights after previous near misses and the truth is, he couldn't, the team have regressed on the previous tournament performances
Rather than start another Southgate thread will add this here.
Personally while I could forgive a 21 year old for missing a penalty. Joking about it in an advert was too much.
Thanks for the service Southgate on 14:45 - Jul 15 by Churchman
Is it that hard to leave out big name, top quality players? Surely if you are the England manager you decide how you want to play and play the best players for that. You make the decision whether players like it or not. It’s precisely what Alf Ramsey did. We are talking about putting together a football team, not recovering Apollo 13.
We had all this must squeeze them in nonsense with Gerrard and Lampard all those years ago. It was blindingly obvious you couldn’t play them in the same team, but not to the dopes in charge of England. Rinse and repeat this time around?
Did Southgate know how to get the best out of The players you mention? The answer is no, unless those players are not ‘top quality’/as good as their reputations. I can’t see another explanation.
As for Kane, he had the mobility of a wardrobe. That must have been obvious before the first game, but Southgate was either not looking or too weak to drop him. In that weakness, what does that say to the other forwards in the squad? That the manager is loyal to the bitter end or prefers a manikin in an England kit to them? Our stats going forward were woeful.
As for the left back situation, that was a farce. Trippier: poor season for Newcastle, filling in at left back because Southgate only selected Shaw for that position. Plenty of right backs though. Shaw played a game and a half in the end. Did that justify the risk? Not to me.
Overall there were decisions to be made and Southgate copped out of making them. The dear old fear based compromise; tried and trusted. Defend from the first whistle and hope to pinch a goal or penalties. It failed and there is no merit in it. I believe we have better players than that.
Spain were excellent and would have probably won whatever we did. I’d just like to have seen us try and lay a glove on them before they scored. It’s not as if they hadn’t had a warning in previous games.
Roll on August!
Oh dear “he had the mobility of a wardrobe” that really has cracked me up😂😂😂
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